I support the 2k1 revision...

Spark910 · #1 11-27-2006, 10:40 PM

...some time this century.

Nah, I don't mean it. But really, is there ANY idea on a release date? This year? Next year? Just general wide ideas would be nice

konidias · #2 11-27-2006, 11:57 PM

Right now progress has slowed down a bit due to overworking and general lack of interest/burnout.

The project isn't dead but I'm not giving a release date or even an estimated guess as it's only going to irritate people more when that date comes and goes and there is still no server release.

zell12 · #3 11-28-2006, 05:30 AM

I knew this would happen.

Googi · #4 11-28-2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

I knew this would happen.

You say this like there was someone who didn't know it would happen.

Well, outside of the 2K1 staff themselves.

Infernix · #5 11-28-2006, 06:36 AM

You guys talk as if all projects don't have their slow points. This is why I believe Managers shouldnt even talk about true development with players. Your all to ignorant to understand that in real life huge projects have there slow points and then they have their fast points.

Any of you ever talk to a actual game developer before? Or in fact have you ever talk to a damn computer programmer at that? lol Things time Jesus.

CheeToS2 · #6 11-28-2006, 06:40 AM

Weren't you the one complaining about little being done when Lance was managing the server? Does this make you a bad manager by your own standards?

zell12 · #7 11-28-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

You say this like there was someone who didn't know it would happen.

Well, outside of the 2K1 staff themselves.

I don't know any other way to say "I knew it would happen."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

You guys talk as if all projects don't have their slow points. This is why I believe Managers shouldnt even talk about true development with players. Your all to ignorant to understand that in real life huge projects have there slow points and then they have their fast points.

Any of you ever talk to a actual game developer before? Or in fact have you ever talk to a damn computer programmer at that? lol Things time Jesus.

Also, we understand projects have their "slow points" and their "fast points" but it shouldn't be like that. It is not like that with professional development. There is enough incentive to keep the developers working; their job and the money they are paid.

There is little incentive to keep people working on this game. However, we knew this would happen. It always does.

ryu_no_bishie · #8 11-28-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

You guys talk as if all projects don't have their slow points. This is why I believe Managers shouldnt even talk about true development with players. Your all to ignorant to understand that in real life huge projects have there slow points and then they have their fast points.

Any of you ever talk to a actual game developer before? Or in fact have you ever talk to a damn computer programmer at that? lol Things time Jesus.

yes, i have actualy, alot and he taught me lots of stuff that ive tried to share with a number of staff (albiet none from your server) but it seems like every single staff i meet is increadably resistant to it. although thats probably because every staff i have ever met dosent seem to like me.

Andy0687 · #9 11-28-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryu_no_bishie

yes, i have actualy, alot and he taught me lots of stuff that ive tried to share with a number of staff (albiet none from your server) but it seems like every single staff i meet is increadably resistant to it. although thats probably because every staff i have ever met dosent seem to like me.

Maybe its something about your superiority complex?

Anyways I thought I heard something about September for this a long time ago. I wasnt paying much attention though, I think some comments in this thread point out why.

Myomoto · #10 11-28-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeToS2

Weren't you the one complaining about little being done when Lance was managing the server? Does this make you a bad manager by your own standards?

Shush you, with all your "sense", "logic", and "reason"

konidias · #11 11-29-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeToS2

Weren't you the one complaining about little being done when Lance was managing the server? Does this make you a bad manager by your own standards?

I was. I was complaining because for half a year nothing was being done yet he was lying to people and saying there was progress.

Yet here I am telling you that progress has slowed down a lot. Sorry for being honest, but it's the truth.

I wasn't lying when I was saying things were getting done before. Because up until just recently, we've worked on the server every single day. We've done a whole lot but there is still a whole lot left to do. I see this as a halftime.

As mentioned, it is not really feasible to think that anybody is going to work every day on something where they don't get any pay or reward of any kind, and never will. This is purely for hobby and to make something that will entertain some people. I don't see why people treat staff on Graal as if they are paying them and expecting results, because if that were the case, well then I'd be a lousy manager.

But it's quite difficult to maintain an active team let alone maintain activity myself when my team is getting nothing but my thanks for all of their hard work, and nothing but pressure from people who are wanting to play.

I do intend to fully finish and release the server. There is no need for all of this drama.

Thanks for the support Inferno.

zell12 · #12 11-29-2006, 10:15 AM

So what is the server looking like? What have you completed basically?

Are you guys trying to make a whole bunch of graphics, complex systems/games/whatever; what about the levels? What is slowing down?

Give us some info.

konidias · #13 11-29-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

So what is the server looking like? What have you completed basically?

Are you guys trying to make a whole bunch of graphics, complex systems/games/whatever; what about the levels? What is slowing down?

Give us some info.

Well, aside from lack of any really active scripters... (which is one of the key problems right now), we're needing to complete some big graphics projects in order to feel like we can continue on.

The biggest is the female body set. I don't plan to release the server without one, and it's quite hard to cram all of the important female anatomy (you know, the anatomy that lets you know the difference betweeen male and female) into a tiny chubby little box of a Graal character.

Other than that, it's mainly the scripting. Contiga only pops on for maybe an hour a day (when nobody else is awake) so it's hard to communicate directly with him. Twusk has been popping in and out lately but I'm never really sure when he'll be available to help, and he's really just donating his time when he feels the desire to work.

Sern, my main scripter has just up and left the project and abandoned it without giving me a reason. Which I sorely dislike people doing.

But yeah, I'm sure if I could pay these people then we'd have none of these problems right now. But without any sort of payment, how am I supposed to maintain a team's interest and keep them working hard? It's just not possible. That's why game companies pay their employees.

It's not really something that we have control over. It's up to Stefan/Unixmad to figure out a solution to this... but I really don't think they care much about it. They are firm in their belief that making a server is just for a hobby and that's what it will remain. I'm not rich so I can't shell out money to pay workers.

No amount of great management is going to keep people working daily on a project without them losing interest or hope, when there's no compensation. I think that my team just needs a rest, myself most of all. After we let the server sit for a short while, we'll feel like we're compelled to finish it and not let it go to waste. We'll be able to brew up new ideas during the downtime and also recharge our batteries.

That's all I can really say about the matter. I'm sorry that the server isn't completed but I'm not sure the majority of people here realize just how much work is involved in this rebuild.

Crono · #14 11-29-2006, 10:01 PM

just get it finished koni

you go girl

I KNOW HES A GUY SHUT UP

zell12 · #15 11-29-2006, 10:54 PM

I understand what you are going through, you put more effort into this whole thing than Tseng did, so I'll give you that.

Have you ever thought of contacting the Global teams for assistance? Try presuading some scripters from other servers with less potential to come to this project?

I just don't know.

In my opinion the server was fine. The kingdoms needed redoing, the rest of the overworld needed development for more quests, games, etc. Other then that, I really don't see why everyone that tried to take this over is changing it completely.

It is clearly not working, its too much. Once it gets a lot of attention again, you can continue development for other things that were unfinished or completely just to wrap those unfinished projects up so it was suitable for play.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Crono · #16 11-29-2006, 11:50 PM

Does the GST still exist? If so go chase them down (Skyld etc)

konidias · #17 11-30-2006, 01:25 AM

GST are, I hate to say it... not very much help. Sure they might stop by to fix a script or finish one script I'm having trouble with... but they aren't a very long term solution. They aren't going to dedicate hours each day to complete the scripting for the server.

The problem with 2k1 is that you can't just fix a few things and release it... It won't attract players that way. We've made a lot of progress... in fact I'll share some:

Player body sprites and clothing for male characters are completely done. All that is needed is a lot of different clothing which isn't hard to make. 95% of the ganis are done.

Completely scripted movement and damage system is pretty muchd one... probably also 95% done.

The overworld has had a lot of reconstruction... probably 40% done with leveling.

New tileset is about 80-90% done depending on if I think of any more tiles to add... Also need to make seasonal tilesets and graphics but that isn't much work.

New bomy pets with new scripting and graphics and ganis. Just need to make a lot more bomy pet graphics for the different types...

New weather/time/day-night system which is really nice... only thing that needs to be finished is getting the weather tweaked and adding it into the system so that it generates by itself. We've worked out a great calender system which works on going twice as fast as normal time. So each real day is two graal days, each real year is two graal years, etc...

New fire effects, smoke effects, new ganis and graphics for nearly everything... We've also rescripted some jobs. Mining for rocks is about 95% complete also but we haven't started on crafting them yet. Baking is about 90% complete we just need to fine tune things and make some more graphics and add more items to bake. Farming... it works but it's not quite set up the way that I want and hasn't been tested much at all.

Most all of the old tools have been rescripted and regfxed and redone completely. They all work nicely.

Things we need to do yet: Kingdoms, Quests, Events, Shops, and Playerhouse things.

It's mostly just a lot more content work to do and it requires that all of the basic systems are organized and fully completed. (don't want to go make quests to find out that we don't have a pull system finished so that players could pull a block, or that damaging hasn't been totally scripted so that a trap in a quest won't do any damage yet...)

But releasing it now would be a disaster... There is quite a lot of stuff to do but honestly it would only keep people entertained for a few days right now... Just running around and checking out the new graphics and using the new tools and checking out the levels... that's pretty much all you can do right now.. well not really but it's not ready for release. =P

Crono · #18 11-30-2006, 02:18 AM

YOU LAZY ASS NATS WORK FOR KONI!

caps

zell12 · #19 11-30-2006, 04:15 AM

I'm pretty sure a lot of the old players would come back, probably some new ones. Gain some attention, grab some scripters.

KuJi had a lot of players on there for a few days when it was hidden. All we wanted was some updates and some new things to do. :/

KuJi · #20 11-30-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Other than that, it's mainly the scripting. Contiga only pops on for maybe an hour a day (when nobody else is awake) so it's hard to communicate directly with him. Twusk has been popping in and out lately but I'm never really sure when he'll be available to help, and he's really just donating his time when he feels the desire to work.

Sern, my main scripter has just up and left the project and abandoned it without giving me a reason. Which I sorely dislike people doing.

Seems your down a scripter, eeh

zell12 · #21 11-30-2006, 09:41 AM

KuJi is a good scripter. Sern is not a very dependable person, he disappears a lot. No offence buddy. :P

Crono · #22 11-30-2006, 05:39 PM

Twinny is a good scripter too. Why not hire him?

Also you have Eye of the Beholder. You didn't mention him in your posts. :O

konidias · #23 11-30-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Twinny is a good scripter too. Why not hire him?

Also you have Eye of the Beholder. You didn't mention him in your posts. :O

That's because Eye is great staff and does a lot of work and is always around when I need him.

Andy0687 · #24 11-30-2006, 08:26 PM

I applied for NAT but contiga turned me down when i couldnt answer his complex math problem in 15 seconds

Crono · #25 11-30-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

That's because Eye is great staff and does a lot of work and is always around when I need him.

Yeah but you never said what he's working on

KuJi · #26 11-30-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

I applied for NAT but contiga turned me down when i couldnt answer his complex math problem in 15 seconds

Haha. Contiga is good, but I hate his styling =(.. confuses the hell out of me and isn't very readable =(

konidias · #27 11-30-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Yeah but you never said what he's working on

He does a lot of things. Mainly graphics and ganis. I would say he's done the most work aside from me on the server. He's done a lot of graphics for items and clothing and characters, as well as at least half of the player ganis, and has edited just about every player gani when it's needed it.

He's also messing with scripting right now trying to learn gs2 so that he can help in that department.

Crono · #28 11-30-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

He does a lot of things. Mainly graphics and ganis. I would say he's done the most work aside from me on the server. He's done a lot of graphics for items and clothing and characters, as well as at least half of the player ganis, and has edited just about every player gani when it's needed it.

He's also messing with scripting right now trying to learn gs2 so that he can help in that department.

Yeah Eye is amazing. One of my all time favourite scripters + developers in general.

zell12 · #29 12-01-2006, 12:23 AM

Mkay so hire KuJi and some other people Koni, you obviously forgot most of Graal's current good scripters.

Eagle · #30 12-01-2006, 05:52 AM

Eye is great, he's been around for a long time too. Someone like that is good to have.

KuJi · #31 12-01-2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Mkay so hire KuJi and some other people Koni, you obviously forgot most of Graal's current good scripters.

kuji totally does not script =(

konidias · #32 12-01-2006, 06:12 AM

I didn't forget the scripters. I just totally don't know them.

I'm not exactly in the big Graal development loop. It just seems that most scripters are just not very dependable... I really wish I could script well in gs2 but I can't, so that's a problem. If anyone is good with gs2 scripting please, don't be afraid to apply for a scripting position.

KuJi · #33 12-01-2006, 06:20 AM

loool, I could never deal with Caramel their ;D.

Andy0687 · #34 12-01-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

I didn't forget the scripters. I just totally don't know them.

I'm not exactly in the big Graal development loop. It just seems that most scripters are just not very dependable... I really wish I could script well in gs2 but I can't, so that's a problem. If anyone is good with gs2 scripting please, don't be afraid to apply for a scripting position.

See also: my post where contiga is an very egotistical person and youll know where some of your potiential staff are at.

konidias · #35 12-01-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

See also: my post where contiga is an very egotistical person and youll know where some of your potiential staff are at.

Contiga is not the manager, I am. If you'd like to help just let me know on AIM or via PM here or something. Contiga has helped hire some people (like Beholder), but lately he hasn't done much. He doesn't have the final answer on who can be hired, just so you know. =P

KuJi · #36 12-01-2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

He doesn't have the final answer on who can be hired, just so you know. =P

Aw damn, their's my shot =(
afk spam

brock128 · #37 12-05-2006, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Also, we understand projects have their "slow points" and their "fast points" but it shouldn't be like that. It is not like that with professional development. There is enough incentive to keep the developers working; their job and the money they are paid.

oh hey a strawman cool

this isn't professional development

I'd help script but I don't know how. I'll play with it some more soon if I remember.