14th....

[xAndrewx]

Well, it's the 15 in a day, actually, 4 hours where I live.
So, where are you? Plan to release? Plan to push it further away?
Talk to us please, we'd like to know.

Thanks!

[Lance]

Three questions!

1) Who?
2) What?
3) Huh?

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Lance

Three questions!

1) Who?
2) What?
3) Huh?

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=60095

Originally Posted by Lance

I am pleased to announce that we are currently working towards a late August/September re-release!

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=60900

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

End of August if they found a GAT to make a few tiles
Middle of September if they didn't.

Originally Posted by LordMatt

End of august today - no g2k1
Middle of september - Sept 15th

[Lance]

That is what we have been working toward, sure. That is certainly no promise, especially as we are dealing with the aforementioned snags. Also, I am afraid even if Zurkiba did officially speak for Graal2001 (he does not), that was his guess and that "middle of September" does not equal "September 15". You lose on a few levels there if you are trying to say I made any sort of promise about a September 15 release.

[konidias]

There are 30 days in September... September 15th would be the middle.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by konidias

There are 30 days in September... September 15th would be the middle.

I think you fail to realize the scope of the definition of the word 'middle'. Please consult a dictionary.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by konidias

There are 30 days in September... September 15th would be the middle.

And the 16th is not?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Skyld

And the 16th is not?

Or the 17th, or the 18th, or the 19th, etc. There are actually quite a few days in the middle of September. I should take this time to remind the readers of this thread that there was no official middle of September-related promise made, though.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Lance

Or the 17th, or the 18th, or the 19th, etc. There are actually quite a few days in the middle of September.

So really, people just tried to redefine 'middle'!

Edit: For the worse.

[Amagius]

Originally Posted by Skyld

So really, people just tried to redefine 'middle'!

Edit: For the worse.

Middle and median are close to synonymous. No surprise for miscommunication. Doesn't matter to me as long as there is a glinting chance that Graal 2001 will come back. The sad part is that by the time it is released, or even if released tomorrow, my lust and zeal for it will most likely deteriorate quickly.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Lance

I think you fail to realize the scope of the definition of the word 'middle'. Please consult a dictionary.

I realize the scope. But the exact middle would be September 15th. While yes, any day inbetween the 1st and the 30th is technically the middle, I don't think that's what was implied in the original statement.

When someone says something like "it will be ready in the middle of the year" they don't mean "any time between the first day in January and the last day in December. They generally mean June-July. Just like if someone says "in the middle of the month" they more than likely mean around the 15th.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by konidias

I realize the scope. But the exact middle would be September 15th. While yes, any day inbetween the 1st and the 30th is technically the middle, I don't think that's what was implied in the original statement.

When someone says something like "it will be ready in the middle of the year" they don't mean "any time between the first day in January and the last day in December. They generally mean June-July. Just like if someone says "in the middle of the month" they more than likely mean around the 15th.

Well TECHNICALLY they should just release September 15, 12:00 GMT without a second of delay!

[Lance]

Originally Posted by konidias

I realize the scope. But the exact middle would be September 15th. While yes, any day inbetween the 1st and the 30th is technically the middle, I don't think that's what was implied in the original statement.

When someone says something like "it will be ready in the middle of the year" they don't mean "any time between the first day in January and the last day in December. They generally mean June-July. Just like if someone says "in the middle of the month" they more than likely mean around the 15th.

I would like to highlight both "generally" and the little dash that indicates there is a range.

[konidias]

Whatever. The server won't be ready by the middle of next September.

[xAndrewx]

Oh, what another surprize.......

[WanDaMan]

Konidias: When will your version be ready?

[konidias]

Some time in the middle of this century. Har har har.

[Shiftk03-]

Originally Posted by konidias

Some time in the middle of this century. Har har har.

With a record like yours, I wouldn't be surprised if the world ended before you finished. You have no room to sit there and joke on Lance when you can't even produce a server any faster. I don't care what problems you say you're having. If you are so good then where the hell is Oasis or your version of G2k1? "Wahh. I can't get help" cry me a river then go drown yourself in it.

[konidias]

Such harsh words. I have a record now? I've only attempted one actual project which I was pretty much doing all by myself. At the time I was not able to script the advanced enemy AI I needed for the server, so the project had to be put on hold. I'm not crying about it or trying to make excuses. I simply couldn't proceed with the project.

I have plenty of room to "joke on Lance" because unlike Oasis, Graal2001 was a server that already existed, and he refuses to give up his management position, even though he's had over 9 months to get the project finished and it's STILL delayed. In fact, back in November of last year he was asked to step down and give someone else a chance, but instead he made a big post about how he was going to hire a bunch of people and get the project done.... back in NOVEMBER. November is only two months away now.

My 2k1 revision only started less than 2 months ago, and I've done 95% of the work on my own, and even though I'm unaware of Lance's 2k1 progress, I would safely bet that I've done more than his "team" has in the past 6 months.

I have every right to be agitated because he caused a huge ordeal with me starting my revision, because he refused to give up the server months ago. He told Stefan he only had to touch up a few things and test out a few things and made it sound like it would take a week tops to finish. Even Stefan said that's what Lance made it sound like. Then Stefan asks Lance how long it's going to take him and Lance gave some lengthy release date like 2-6 months. (I don't recall the actual date)

I know you're pals with Lance and you're just posting to show your support for him, but let's face the facts already. I guarantee that even if Lance releases his verson soon, it will just fail and he will blame it on the players (again) because they pushed him to release it too early.

[Shiftk03-]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Ahahaha. If you're trying to defend Lance by bashing the "Wahh. I can't get help" excuse, you've just failed. Failed quite badly.

Lance is a big boy and he can defend himself. I'm just pointing out that Konidias hasn't shown he can do any better, reguardless of if he is working on the project himself or not. That comment about him drowning himself in his own woe, yeah, I kinda direct that to everyone who wants to run their mouth about someone else when they themselves can be considered guilty of the same. Better mark this in your nifty website as me "pushing my moral failures on others" again. Haha man you need to lay off the juice.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

Lance is a big boy and he can defend himself. I'm just pointing out that Konidias hasn't shown he can do any better, reguardless of if he is working on the project himself or not.

Why didn't you ever say anything like that to Lance, then?

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

That comment about him drowning himself in his own woe, yeah, I kinda direct that to everyone who wants to run their mouth about someone else when they themselves can be considered guilty of the same. Better mark this in your nifty website as me "pushing my moral failures on others" again.

No, this qualifies as an act of hypocrisy. It's not really anything to do with moral failures, just intellectual ones.

[konidias]

I agree. Lance has used the excuse of "not enough staff" or "staff aren't active" nearly every time his project is delayed. Isn't it the manager's job to make sure there are enough active staff? He fails at one of the most important roles of a manager.

If you have a full team of active staff, you barely have to lift a finger as manager. Lance appears to be waiting for them to all fall into his lap so he can show how great of a manager he is after they've done all the work.

[xAndrewx]

I don't know what Lance has done, over the past few years of him managing, but Konidas has done alot, in just 2 months..

[Lance]

Originally Posted by konidias

I have plenty of room to "joke on Lance" because unlike Oasis, Graal2001 was a server that already existed, and he refuses to give up his management position, even though he's had over 9 months to get the project finished and it's STILL delayed. In fact, back in November of last year he was asked to step down and give someone else a chance, but instead he made a big post about how he was going to hire a bunch of people and get the project done.... back in NOVEMBER. November is only two months away now.

1) There has yet to exist a good argument for why I should give up my management position.
2) Asked to step down by a player. It would seem you are trying to make it sound like this was by someone with the actual authority to make such a request.
3) How does that give you room to "joke on Lance"?

My 2k1 revision only started less than 2 months ago, and I've done 95% of the work on my own,

Oh, good for you. Percentages really tell a lot about total work, by the way. I do what I can with the resources (staff + time) available to me.

and even though I'm unaware of Lance's 2k1 progress, I would safely bet that I've done more than his "team" has in the past 6 months.

I don't understand. You state that you know nothing about something and then state with confidence that you've done better. If that doesn't fly in the face of reason then I have a swamp in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I have every right to be agitated because he caused a huge ordeal with me starting my revision, because he refused to give up the server months ago.

I caused a huge ordeal? I believe, sir, that you were the kid whining to Stefan on several occasions that he should give Graal2001 to you and fire me for being so evil.

He told Stefan he only had to touch up a few things and test out a few things and made it sound like it would take a week tops to finish.

When, where?

Even Stefan said that's what Lance made it sound like.

Haha. I could quote something he said to me, too, but since it was made in private and I actually respect that, I won't.

Suffice it to say you had better have something good to show for all the troublemaking.

Then Stefan asks Lance how long it's going to take him and Lance gave some lengthy release date like 2-6 months. (I don't recall the actual date)

I thought I said it could take a week (according to you). What happened to that? And, if you don't recall the date, how can we be assured that you are recalling the remainder of this exchange correctly?

I know you're pals with Lance and you're just posting to show your support for him, but let's face the facts already.

Yeah, dude. The existence of a friendship totally precludes the accuracy of anything said and stuff. Totally.

I guarantee that even if Lance releases his verson soon, it will just fail

Guarantee, huh? On what basis?

and he will blame it on the players (again) because they pushed him to release it too early.

Because you know how I just love blaming the people I want to play the server. You know, the people I am actually doing all this stuff for. Saying I made a bad call by releasing it too early is totally blaming it on others.

-

Look, Konidias. If you're going to be anti-Lance, at least try to bring in some Real Facts and Logic. Posting fictional 'facts', misleading statistics, misrepresentations of reality, and fallacious arguments just isn't going to cut it around here (except, of course, with VT - remember, if you ever actually point out a fallacy he has committed, he insists that you are actually "employing hilariously redundant Latin phraseology" rather than accept that he has made an error in reasoning).

[Clash]

how about we just all sit around the camp fire, exchange some brews, and yell at clash for not finishing new valikorlia yet!!!

but really. the whole "WHY ISNT G2k1 DONE YET" is almost as bad as the valikorlians screaming at me asking why new valikorlia isn't done yet (i was even accused of being a pedophile because it wasn't done. i'm not sure how, but these roleplayers sure are imaginative folk.)

a quality product takes time, and unless you want a ****ty g2k1 then shut the hell up - flaming isn't going to do anything. konidias, lance owns g2k1.
you may hate it, the entire world may hate it - but it doesn't matter. because he runs it now. just sort of like how i absolutely despise our current PWA system, because it's absolutely the most inefficent thing on the planet earth. however i do not whine and cry about it like a little girl. i just yell at people a lot.

personally my view on the matter is the fact i find it horribly ironic and cruel that i wasted 50 dollars on graal expecting g2k1 to last a long time - when i could of saved that 50 dollars and bought a nice lobster dinner. stupid me.

if you want to complain and whine. that's cool, but don't expect to be public hero konidias. because usually people who complain against my management get punched in the face, and if lance is anything like me he has an iron cast NES power glove.

but if you want to help, why don't you offer lance your help? adhere to his ideas, and work with them. if you can supposedly do more then his team has done in six months in a week - then do it.

lance is the only way g2k1 is coming back, so get use to it.

i am sorry if i seem offensive, but seriously. offer help, or shut the bloody hell up.
i'm so tired of seeing this "WHAREZ G2k1!?!?!" crap because it reminds me i have to work on new val to beat g2k1 and that makes me depressed because i am sloth.

have a nice day =)


ALSO MY LEGS ARE IMPOSSIBLY HAIRY

[Brad]

so whens 2k1 comin out? huh? huh?>!@!!?!!

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Clash

ALSO MY LEGS ARE IMPOSSIBLY HAIRY

Puberty boy, puberty.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

1) There has yet to exist a good argument for why I should give up my management position.

You haven't given a reason why you should keep it, either. The fact is, you've had months and haven't done anything. We don't care why, we just care that we still haven't a 2k1 server to play. The year 2001 was four years ago. Why is it that the server that was created in 2001 is "not ready" by 2005?

Originally Posted by Lance

2) Asked to step down by a player. It would seem you are trying to make it sound like this was by someone with the actual authority to make such a request.

So I guess because a player made the request, it is a bad idea?

Originally Posted by Lance

3) How does that give you room to "joke on Lance"?

Because your position is absurd.

Originally Posted by Lance

Oh, good for you. Percentages really tell a lot about total work, by the way. I do what I can with the resources (staff + time) available to me.

Yet you'll let one of your cronies violently bash someone for this very same reason. You know, telling someone to "drown themself" is kind of wrong, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Lance

I don't understand. You state that you know nothing about something and then state with confidence that you've done better. If that doesn't fly in the face of reason then I have a swamp in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I guess statistics and probabilities are lost to you?
It's not unfair to suggest that Konidias is working faster and more quality-efficient than you. So far, the only screenshots we have are ones that show minute improvement. Conversely, Konidias has shown us interesting screenshots over a comparitively small amount of time.

Originally Posted by Lance

I caused a huge ordeal? I believe, sir, that you were the kid whining to Stefan on several occasions that he should give Graal2001 to you and fire me for being so evil.

You do make such a fuss over competition, because then you have to work to keep your job.

Originally Posted by Lance

Haha. I could quote something he said to me, too, but since it was made in private and I actually respect that, I won't.

Want a pacifier to help you suck up?
By the way, you are doing exactly what you're accusing Koni of in the next quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

I thought I said it could take a week (according to you). What happened to that? And, if you don't recall the date, how can we be assured that you are recalling the remainder of this exchange correctly?

Originally Posted by Lance

Yeah, dude. The existence of a friendship totally precludes the accuracy of anything said and stuff. Totally.

Obviously, as it precludes the necessity to edit Rabid's post to remove what you deem as "cheerleading" (which is, by the way, a laughable excuse which will be reported to the higher officials).

Originally Posted by Lance

Guarantee, huh? On what basis?

Well, you've failed at showing reasonable results for this work you claim to be doing. Seven screenshots doesn't account for so many months of what seems to be inactivity.

Originally Posted by Lance

-

Look, Konidias. If you're going to be anti-Lance, at least try to bring in some Real Facts and Logic. Posting fictional 'facts', misleading statistics, misrepresentations of reality, and fallacious arguments just isn't going to cut it around here (except, of course, with VT - remember, if you ever actually point out a fallacy he has committed, he insists that you are actually "employing hilariously redundant Latin phraseology" rather than accept that he has made an error in reasoning).

I really must update that site. You've all given me much more ammunition than I previously had.

[Lao_Su2]

I think the Graal community is just wondering what is going on so it can "almost" all be solved with the answer to this question

Koni and Lance what have you done in the time that you have had to develop?

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Lance

1) There has yet to exist a good argument for why I should give up my management position.
2) Asked to step down by a player. It would seem you are trying to make it sound like this was by someone with the actual authority to make such a request.
3) How does that give you room to "joke on Lance"?

1) 2k1 is still not released. That's all the argument you need. Seriously, you have to be kidding about this.
2) Which apparently was important enough for you to make an enormous post about 2k1 and how you're going to turn it around and actually get to work. (see link at bottom of this post for reference)
3) How doesn't it?

Oh, good for you. Percentages really tell a lot about total work, by the way. I do what I can with the resources (staff + time) available to me.

Well apparently you don't have enough time OR staff to manage 2k1 efficiently. Give it up already.

I don't understand. You state that you know nothing about something and then state with confidence that you've done better. If that doesn't fly in the face of reason then I have a swamp in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I know enough. When Stefan was questioning you he was checking out your server and saying there hadn't been a file changed on the server in quite a few months. I've talked with previous staff who've said nothing was getting done. That is why I stated with confidence that I've done more. The only reason I have any doubt is that I don't know what has been done in the past month. But I have a feeling it's not much.

I caused a huge ordeal? I believe, sir, that you were the kid whining to Stefan on several occasions that he should give Graal2001 to you and fire me for being so evil.

So I'm a kid now? Real mature. I didn't whine to Stefan about anything. I wanted both of us to be able to work on our own projects but Stefan wasn't as thrilled with the idea. When you showed no signs of stepping down from a project that you're NOT GETTING DONE, that is when I decided it would be better to just replace your 2k1.

When, where?

A little over a month ago. 2k2 Debug RC.

Edit: Sorry, no debug logs.

Because you know how I just love blaming the people I want to play the server. You know, the people I am actually doing all this stuff for. Saying I made a bad call by releasing it too early is totally blaming it on others.

*cough*

Originally Posted by Lance

[Insert release of the server without kingdoms (and subsequent failure) because "That's what the players wanted - the server. It doesn't need to have kingdoms, they say!" Yeah, right. That didn't work.]

Also I find this (which you also said in that post) quite amusing:

Time passed. Jeff continued to be manager, nothing was going on, and he was working against (rather than for) the progress of the server. I grew dissatisfied, and spoke with Stefan on several occasions to try to achieve some change on the server.

Wow, that sounds familiar. Except of course when YOU whined to Stefan it wasn't "whining" it was "speaking".

Oh and the thread I'm quoting this from is:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=56145

[xAndrewx]

Haha, 2 inactive managers in one quote.

[Shiftk03-]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Whoopdy woo woo

You are so cool. I hope one day I can sit back and act like I know people personally over the internet. Yup. I'd make a webpage with all that "ammunition" Lance's cronies supply. Lets get some things straight, baby boy:

1) You don't know me. Those little comments on your website are just spiffy and I encourage you to keep them up but don't you think you should add a bit of truth instead of things you couldn't possibly know? (ie: moral failures)

2) I'm a Lance cronie? That brings us back to 1. You don't know me. I predate Lance. Sure, Kaimetsu isn't around to shove me off as his cronie but still, going by your logic you'd be a cronie of: Konidias, anyone you've ever replied to on these forums, and finally Lycia-just because.

3) I'm ready to play either G2k1 reguardless. The better one will keep my attention the longest. If one of the owners wants to sit back in their computer chair and post messages bashing the other for the same mistakes: so be it. I just think the time wasted posting retorts and satiric comments could be better spent working.

Purple) So I told someone to drown themselves in a hypothetical and possibly proverbial river of tears.. OH NO! I hardly see that as "violently bashing" but okay. If you say it, it must be right.

I tend to agree with Clash's post. In closing, let me "violently bash" Protag by saying: Go drink some soda pop. ONEOZ BANT

Edit: Andrew.. You really shouldn't comment on others. I'll leave it at that, bud.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by protagonist

You haven't given a reason why you should keep it, either.

I'm the manager. That's a pretty good reason to start with, especially since you still fail to comprehend the whole burden-of-proof thing.

The fact is, you've had months and haven't done anything.

RC logs, files on Graal2001 Dev, and files on my own computer tend to indicate otherwise. The fact is that your claim is an opinion not grounded in reality. Also: you lack the capability to support your claim that I haven't done anything. Why bother pretending you can?

We don't care why, we just care that we still haven't a 2k1 server to play. The year 2001 was four years ago. Why is it that the server that was created in 2001 is "not ready" by 2005?

Yeah, just ignore the times Graal2001 was previously up and that things have changed since 2001. Great plan, Sherlock.

So I guess because a player made the request, it is a bad idea?

Pay attention. I said he was misrepresenting the request. And the request lacks the credibility when it is made by a player that it has when made by someone who actually has the authority to make one for real.

Because your position is absurd.

Opinion + no basis. You win x2!

Yet you'll let one of your cronies violently bash someone for this very same reason. You know, telling someone to "drown themself" is kind of wrong, isn't it?

I have cronies? Whoa, cool.

Is there supposed to be some corrolation between pointing out that percentages do not measure actual amount of work done and "telling someone to 'drown themself'"?

I guess statistics and probabilities are lost to you?

You can apply "statistics and probabilities" to something you admit knowing absolutely nothing about to state something about it with certainty? That's pretty damned brilliant.

It's not unfair to suggest that Konidias is working faster and more quality-efficient than you.

Where did I say it was unfair? Please stop arguing against points I am not making. I mean it's pretty cool that you can, but I don't see how it contributes to this discussion at all.

No entry found for quality-efficient.

Did you mean golden pheasant?

I wonder.

So far, the only screenshots we have are ones that show minute improvement. Conversely, Konidias has shown us interesting screenshots over a comparatively small amount of time.

The ones CheeToS and I have shown are minute improvement? Perhaps you ought to reexamine that. Perhaps you also ought to explain how "minute improvement" and "interesting" even fall into the same scale.

You do make such a fuss over competition, because then you have to work to keep your job.

You're arguing out of ignorance, buddy. You have zero knowledge about what has taken place on debug RC.

Want a pacifier to help you suck up?

1) To who?
2) For what reason?

By the way, you are doing exactly what you're accusing Koni of in the next quote:

I was quoting something he said - not 'remembering' anything.

Obviously, as it precludes the necessity to edit Rabid's post to remove what you deem as "cheerleading" (which is, by the way, a laughable excuse which will be reported to the higher officials).

His posts had content. Your one-liner cheers amount to spam. Report it all you want.

Well, you've failed at showing reasonable results for this work you claim to be doing. Seven screenshots doesn't account for so many months of what seems to be inactivity.

Except you still have totally missed the point where the only persons I am actually obligated to show my progress to are Stefan and unixmad, which I will happily do if/when requested of me.

I really must update that site.

You probably shouldn't waste the time. It is in violation of the vip.graal.net usage conditions and will ultimately be removed. Cheers.

[Dach]

This thread is a catastrophe, you should all shut up and stop being so childish.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by konidias

1) 2k1 is still not released. That's all the argument you need. Seriously, you have to be kidding about this.

Except I'm not kidding. That's not proof of anything except that 2k1 is not actually released.

2) Which apparently was important enough for you to make an enormous post about 2k1 and how you're going to turn it around and actually get to work. (see link at bottom of this post for reference)

I acknowledged that the players wanted some more information and was willing to provide some.

3) How doesn't it?

Burden of proof. Look it up.

Well apparently you don't have enough time OR staff to manage 2k1 efficiently. Give it up already.

Oh, well I guess I've got no other choice, I probably ought t-

What, do you think I'm going to resign from being the manager of Graal2001 just because you and VT don't like it? That's pretty funny. :)

Also, efficiency != progress != percentages. Work on your cohesion, buddy.

I know enough.

Is nothing enough?

When Stefan was questioning you he was checking out your server and saying there hadn't been a file changed on the server in quite a few months. I've talked with previous staff who've said nothing was getting done. That is why I stated with confidence that I've done more. The only reason I have any doubt is that I don't know what has been done in the past month. But I have a feeling it's not much.

You, uh, do realize that there is some chronology involved here, don't you? Before this summer, I had almost no time for Graal stuff and there probably was a lack of file updates for a few months. Summer came, however, and I started setting things back in order.

So I'm a kid now? Real mature.

You're acting like one, anyway. Lacking in the latter.

I didn't whine to Stefan about anything.

I already pointed out that private debug chat is not allowed to be posted on these forums. Alas, though - I would have liked to furnish the evidence.

I wanted both of us to be able to work on our own projects but Stefan wasn't as thrilled with the idea. When you showed no signs of stepping down from a project that you're NOT GETTING DONE, that is when I decided it would be better to just replace your 2k1.

Well, I had theorized that your whole "alternate 2k1" plan was just another way to remove me as manager since Stefan would not comply with your whining, but it is nice to now have some concrete proof of this.

A little over a month ago. 2k2 Debug RC:

Edit: Sorry, no debug logs.

I saw it before it was removed. Have you ever heard of the term 'relative'?

*cough*

Perhaps some anti-cough pills would help you out here.

Also I find this (which you also said in that post) quite amusing:

Wow, that sounds familiar. Except of course when YOU whined to Stefan it wasn't "whining" it was "speaking". :rolleyes:

I had valid reasons and actual evidence backing me. Your argument thus far amounts to "lance is evil and does nothing I don't like him and look I will misrepresent reality >:(." Unsurprisingly you have avoided the majority of my counterpoints.

[konidias]

I just don't see how you can feel like you've been a great manager for 2k1 so far. Yes, I do expect you to give up management when you're incapable of getting the server released within 9 months since you restarted the project. I expect you to give it up of your own free will. People telling you to give it up should just be encouragement. You are just stubborn. I really wish you could prove me wrong. It's like 2k1 was a shirt given to you as a birthday present and you never wear it yet you refuse to let someone else have it because it's yours.

I'm done arguing about this. Let the best server win, that's all there really is to say.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

1) You don't know me. Those little comments on your website are just spiffy and I encourage you to keep them up but don't you think you should add a bit of truth instead of things you couldn't possibly know? (ie: moral failures)

You are who you present yourself as.

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

2) I'm a Lance cronie? That brings us back to 1. You don't know me. I predate Lance. Sure, Kaimetsu isn't around to shove me off as his cronie but still, going by your logic you'd be a cronie of: Konidias, anyone you've ever replied to on these forums, and finally Lycia-just because.

You are another person who defends Lance ridiculously, or who refuses to apply the same criticism equally to him.

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

3) I'm ready to play either G2k1 reguardless. The better one will keep my attention the longest. If one of the owners wants to sit back in their computer chair and post messages bashing the other for the same mistakes: so be it. I just think the time wasted posting retorts and satiric comments could be better spent working.

Lance has been doing this for months.

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

Purple) So I told someone to drown themselves in a hypothetical and possibly proverbial river of tears.. OH NO! I hardly see that as "violently bashing" but okay. If you say it, it must be right.

Yes.

[camelback]

Just get it released in the next week..

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Shiftk03-

Edit: Andrew.. You really shouldn't comment on others. I'll leave it at that, bud.

I found it rather funny, I didn't mean it to hurt anyone.........

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

I'm the manager. That's a pretty good reason to start with, especially since you still fail to comprehend the whole burden-of-proof thing.

When you're in a position such as manager, and on a server owned by Graal, the burden of proof should be on you in regards to how efficient it is to keep your worthless hide around.

Originally Posted by Lance

RC logs, files on Graal2001 Dev, and files on my own computer tend to indicate otherwise. The fact is that your claim is an opinion not grounded in reality. Also: you lack the capability to support your claim that I haven't done anything. Why bother pretending you can?

Hah. Here we go with more "I've got proof that I work but I won't show it to you!". It's funny; you restrict my access to 2k1 Dev so I can't prove how lazy you are, and then you turn around and say that same proof is actually in your favor.

Originally Posted by Lance

Yeah, just ignore the times Graal2001 was previously up and that things have changed since 2001. Great plan, Sherlock.

"Things have changed". Great outline of development, Sherlock. Why is it it Zone only took about a year to put up while 2k1 is taking much longer?

Originally Posted by Lance

Pay attention. I said he was misrepresenting the request. And the request lacks the credibility when it is made by a player that it has when made by someone who actually has the authority to make one for real.

I'm paying perfect attention. You're just trying to backslide so that you don't lose a point, which is already too late. You're in a public position on Graal, and every player has credibility to request your removal by the fact that they pay for it. Customers have the right to go to the manager and request someone be fired or punished for incomptitency in "real life" businesses, so why not Graal?

Originally Posted by Lance

Opinion + no basis. You win x2!

What are you giving us other than opinions? You never prove your facts, but simply cite the fact that we haven't proven ours. Just because we can't log on 2k1 and get a log of your laziness doesn't mean that what we are saying is false. Given the information that we are given: the fact 2k1 is still not up, the fact you refuse to provide ample reason for over a year of development, and so on. Those are our proofs, which you can't refute. All you say is "well, the staff were not here for me!". Prove it. Prove the accusations that you make on the entire community when you say that "nobody would help me".

Originally Posted by Lance

I have cronies? Whoa, cool.

Is there supposed to be some corrolation between pointing out that percentages do not measure actual amount of work done and "telling someone to 'drown themself'"?

You completely dodged that question. How typical. Read back a couple quotes. And as for percentages, Koni has shown way more by himself than you have with a whole roster of staff.

Originally Posted by Lance

You can apply "statistics and probabilities" to something you admit knowing absolutely nothing about to state something about it with certainty? That's pretty damned brilliant.

The fact we know nothing is the reason we can make this probability. It is proof that 2k1 is not up, and that you have not given us reason for the extensive amount of time that you have had it in development.

Originally Posted by Lance

Where did I say it was unfair? Please stop arguing against points I am not making. I mean it's pretty cool that you can, but I don't see how it contributes to this discussion at all.

You are suggesting that because we don't know about your server, we can't acknowledge that Koni's surplus of proof versus your lack of proof is evidence against you.

Originally Posted by Lance

The ones CheeToS and I have shown are minute improvement? Perhaps you ought to reexamine that. Perhaps you also ought to explain how "minute improvement" and "interesting" even fall into the same scale.

I don't find them interesting. I find them to be, basically, the same thing that has always been there with slight improvements. This, while Koni completely revamps the graphics, tiles and ganis. He has shown considerable progress, backed by proof (see the horse thread in Graphics forum, for example, and look at the threads he has made elsewhere).

Originally Posted by Lance

You're arguing out of ignorance, buddy. You have zero knowledge about what has taken place on debug RC.

I saw what I saw before you deleted it. It seems pretty interesting. Of course, you wouldn't dare keep something so damaging in the open. If anyone wants to see it, PM me.

Originally Posted by Lance

1) To who?
2) For what reason?

1) To Stefan.

2) OMG Stefan we can't say anything he says because he is Stefan!

People quote him all the time from debug. He probably doesn't care.

Originally Posted by Lance

I was quoting something he said - not 'remembering' anything.

You obviously missed the point.
I was implying that, by saying that there were logs but that you refuse to release them, you are making us trust you. You've already proven yourself to be, at best, dishonest and dodgy.

Originally Posted by Lance

His posts had content. Your one-liner cheers amount to spam. Report it all you want.

Better delete all of the posts in the level forum where people only post "6/10", etc.

Originally Posted by Lance

Except you still have totally missed the point where the only persons I am actually obligated to show my progress to are Stefan and unixmad, which I will happily do if/when requested of me.

And that's fine, but you can't blame people for judging your progress by what you show.

Originally Posted by Lance

You probably shouldn't waste the time. It is in violation of the vip.graal.net usage conditions and will ultimately be removed. Cheers.

*shrug*
I'll put it somewhere else, then.