GTA Update Ideas - Page 2

syltburk · #41 01-01-2005, 03:35 PM

Because classic is classic, its hard to explain...

Shaun · #42 01-01-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Fine. But don't speak against it until you understand what it does and why it exists.

What aspect of Graal Online wasn't working that the NPC Server fixed? I don't mean what new ideas came from the NPC Server, but what old things, before it, were broken?

Why can I not speak against it? I am a random generic sampling of the Graal population that was around both before and after the NPC Server. I am field data. I don't need to know what it does or why it exists, only how it changes the situation. Graal Online is a business now, and that's how the industry works. The corporation uses a device, the NPC Server here, developers use the device, and then overall changes are made. The consumer should only need to know the overall changes.

As a random field statistic, I am stating that I believe Graal Online was better before the NPC Server.

Nappa · #43 01-01-2005, 10:15 PM

So you don't know what the thing is, yet you say it makes things worse.

Polo · #44 01-02-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil_Trunks

...by the way is Master Storm still active?

Dont make me smack you, hehe.

Yes im still active, more than ever infact. I've been putting a lot of work into the NPC Server version of Classic, and it is tending to be a little more 'back to its roots' than what classic currently is. The ideas generated from the contest if good, will see thier way into the new server of course.

I know the NPC Server is long overdue, but I feel it is going to be well worth the wait. I'm basically rebuilding the server from scratch, but building it the way it should have been done.

Someone suggested making classic bigger... I dunno, it already has some 7000 levels, but mostly they are non essential playerhouses. Thats somthing I'm aiming to avoid with the remake.

Anyway, it should be good.

Kaimetsu · #45 01-02-2005, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

Because classic is classic, its hard to explain...

Ah, so you cannot support your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

What aspect of Graal Online wasn't working that the NPC Server fixed?

Relevance?

Quote:

Why can I not speak against it? I am a random generic sampling of the Graal population that was around both before and after the NPC Server

Right. But you don't know even know what it does or why it was created. You're obviously not qualified to criticise it on any technical grounds.

You could still argue that it has had some indirect effect on the community, but so far I haven't seen you present any evidence for that. Ultimately your entire argument is completely groundless.

Shaun · #46 01-02-2005, 07:25 AM

Kaimetsu, I'm not arguing about it form a technical standpoint. I don't feel I am adequately equipped at this time to do so.

However, as a generic player, I have experienced NPC Server downtime (thus freezing NPC's), some coding that no longer works online, and coding that can only be tested online, and things I cannot remember at this time.

Nappa, my point was that as a non developer, but as a random generic character, I feel that whatever the NPC Server may or may not do, it has had a negative overall impact.

Kaimetsu · #47 01-02-2005, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

I have experienced NPC Server downtime (thus freezing NPC's)

Inept scripters.

Quote:

some coding that no longer works online

Inept scripters.

Quote:

and coding that can only be tested online

So test it online...?

Quote:

and things I cannot remember at this time

How persuasive.

syltburk · #48 01-02-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Ah, so you cannot support your argument.

Who said that?

Crono · #49 01-02-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Kaimetsu, I'm not arguing about it form a technical standpoint. I don't feel I am adequately equipped at this time to do so.

However, as a generic player, I have experienced NPC Server downtime (thus freezing NPC's), some coding that no longer works online, and coding that can only be tested online, and things I cannot remember at this time.

Nappa, my point was that as a non developer, but as a random generic character, I feel that whatever the NPC Server may or may not do, it has had a negative overall impact.

Err shaun, this type of thing would be widely accepted in 2002 but nowadays npc servers own and playerworlds suck without them.

Shaun · #50 01-02-2005, 07:21 PM

Kaimetsu, even if NPC Server's crashing is due to inept scripters, the crashing is an outcome of the addition of the NPC Server. Only the overall outcomes matter for a player. The reasons and acitivity "behind the curtain" matters only to the developer.

How would a person test a script online, when Graal Online has discontinued public access of the GServer software?

Crono, please give examples of playerworlds without NPC Servers that suck and what reasons they suck due to an NPC Server.

Evil_Trunks · #51 01-02-2005, 07:22 PM

you can get staff position on a playerworld so easy if you know basic offline commands

since there are like 100 development servers

Neoreno · #52 01-02-2005, 07:46 PM

It seems like Jaffer has some misconceptions about the people of Ventrue. :S

But Jaffer, you can't really call us a new guild, we've been around for years now..

syltburk · #53 01-03-2005, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neoreno

It seems like Jaffer has some misconceptions about the people of Ventrue. :S

But Jaffer, you can't really call us a new guild, we've been around for years now..

I am aware of that, but I really hate ventrue people... They are the only one who is playing right now as a guild, then everyone must be at the freakin bank.. I HATE THE BANK... There is only three places on graal classic where you actually chill out without having to be interrupted by some Ventrue newbs.

Zols. Dozers. AC.

Polo · #54 01-03-2005, 01:11 AM

As far as I am aware, Classic is the only server not using NPC Server... thats very soon going to change.

Kaimetsu · #55 01-03-2005, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

Who said that?

You did, obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Kaimetsu, even if NPC Server's crashing is due to inept scripters, the crashing is an outcome of the addition of the NPC Server

Yes, but not a necessary one. The potential gains outweigh the downsides from bad scripting. The vast majority of elements of more modern servers would be impossible or unworkable if there were no serverside scripting. If a given playerworld lacks competent scripters then sure, maybe they shouldn't use an NPC Server. But nobody will care anyway, because they'll probably never even hear of it.

Quote:

How would a person test a script online

By going onto the relevant server and testing it?

Shaun · #56 01-03-2005, 09:28 AM

My point with the scripting is this:

A person wants to start scripting. In order to test the scripts and thus learn how to script, they must join a playerworld's staff and get access to scripts (which is usually reserved for scripting staff only). However, people only get hired as scripters if they know how to script in the first place. Know what I'm getting to?

Kaimetsu, potential doesn't mean anything unless it's utilized. If playerworld's don't utilize it, that is Graal Online's problem, as the majority of Graal Online's customers play on those playerworlds.

Also, what vital things exist now that are only possible with the NPC server that are used by the majority of Graalians?

Kaimetsu · #57 01-03-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

A person wants to start scripting. In order to test the scripts and thus learn how to script, they must join a playerworld's staff and get access to scripts

Not at all. The ability to script is not tied to the environment. Scripting serverside uses the same skills as scripting clientside - there are just a few extra rules and practices to learn.

Quote:

Kaimetsu, potential doesn't mean anything unless it's utilized. If playerworld's don't utilize it, that is Graal Online's problem

Okay. And how do you plan to show that they don't?

Quote:

what vital things exist now that are only possible [or workable] with the NPC server

Anything that requires any degree of security.

syltburk · #58 01-03-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You did, obviously.

Not really, read it again. I said it was hard to explain, never said that I couldn't.

Kaimetsu · #59 01-03-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

I said it was hard to explain, never said that I couldn't.

Until you do, the smart money says that you can't. Again you need to learn that your assertions only have value within your own mind.

Malinko · #60 01-03-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polo

Anyway, it should be good.

Indeed.

syltburk · #61 01-03-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Until you do, the smart money says that you can't. Again you need to learn that your assertions only have value within your own mind.

I gave you a question, did I ever mention that. I dont need a dull answer, instead could you give me a yes or no?

Did I ever say that I couldn't explain it?

Shaun · #62 01-03-2005, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Not at all. The ability to script is not tied to the environment. Scripting serverside uses the same skills as scripting clientside - there are just a few extra rules and practices to learn.

I am yet to see a job posting for a scripting position that doesn't require immediate knowledge of the NPC Server.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Okay. And how do you plan to show that they don't?

I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly, but I think I may know where you're heading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Anything that requires any degree of security.

What requires a degree of security ingame? I can think of two realms that would need security: storing credit card numbers ingame, and "hackers"

Hopefully Graal Online will not be storing Credit Card numbers ingame, and "hackers" continue to "hack," even in the presence of an NPC Server.

Enlighten me on the possibilities of other things that require security.

Chris · #63 01-03-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

What requires a degree of security ingame? I can think of two realms that would need security: storing credit card numbers ingame, and "hackers".

Obviously you've never seen exploitation of insecure scripts, account theft, and destruction of servers at the hands of said "hackers."

Kaimetsu · #64 01-04-2005, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

I gave you a question, did I ever mention that

The only question you've asked me in this thread is (paraphrasing): "Who said that I can't support my argument?" I already answered this question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

I am yet to see a job posting for a scripting position that doesn't require immediate knowledge of the NPC Server

Indeed? I see plenty.

Quote:

I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly

You say that the potential is untapped, and thus useless. How do you plan to support this statement?

Quote:

"hackers" continue to "hack," even in the presence of an NPC Server

But with limited options, now.

Again, you have a lot to learn about scripting before you're eligible to debate on this matter.

Evil_Trunks · #65 01-04-2005, 12:26 AM

on classic you can use a program which gives you full quests/stats

then warp around anywhere you want and grab all the hearts/swords/NPCs from the levels

security is much worse without NPC Server

also, for Shaun, just get a job on a dev server, they will hire anyone, seriously

phildoc · #66 01-04-2005, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpfan9999

whichever idea seems to benefit Classic the most (and overall just be the best out of all submissions), will be made into a reality...

If I look at just that part, I'd say killing P2P, people might actually play again.
Although, I know it wont happen

Phil

syltburk · #67 01-04-2005, 03:09 AM

But you werent really answering my question correctly, I asked if I ever said that i couldnt do it. Which I never said.

Yes or no, did I ever say that I couldnt say the reason for it?

Kaimetsu · #68 01-04-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

I asked if I ever said that i couldnt do it

Where? I think you are getting confused.

syltburk · #69 01-04-2005, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Ah, so you cannot support your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

Who said that?

Who is confused here?

Kaimetsu · #70 01-04-2005, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

Who is confused here?

The one who thinks that

"Who said that?"

is the same as

"Did I ever say that I couldn't explain it?"

syltburk · #71 01-04-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

The one who thinks that

"Who said that?"

is the same as

"Did I ever say that I couldn't explain it?"

Did you read the qoute I did on you?
You said that I couldnt say it then I replied "Who said that?"

So obviously, its the same meaning.

Kaimetsu · #72 01-04-2005, 03:36 AM

I said that you couldn't support your argument. You asked who had said this. Answer: You, though not directly.

syltburk · #73 01-04-2005, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I said that you couldn't support your argument. You asked who had said this. Answer: You, though not directly.

If I did not say it directly, how can you then know that I actually ment that? I said it was hard to explain, I never actually said that I couldnt support my argument.

Kaimetsu · #74 01-04-2005, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

how can you then know that I actually ment that?

Whether you meant to say it is irrelevant. You communicated an inability, and that's what matters.