I too am back, and I too and tired... (Please Read!) - Page 2

GryffonDurime · #41 11-23-2004, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

There are many staff members on 2K1 not getting anything done, and it is not because of Tseng. If 2K1 is ever revived, it will be because one person rebuilt it themselves. And that person is going to need to be able to script and make levels at a very high degree of skill. Zurkiba is not that person, and it is quite possible that such a person does not exist who is willing to become manager of 2K1.

Googi, Zurkiba has an ARMY of the most talented people on graal behind his attempt to save 2k1. One person will not save 2k1; many will

Googi · #42 11-23-2004, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Googi, Zurkiba has an ARMY of the most talented people on graal behind his attempt to save 2k1. One person will not save 2k1; many will

Did Kamuii not have such an army? Did Jeff not have such an army? Did Tseng not have such an army? They did. It made no difference.

zell12 · #43 11-23-2004, 04:58 AM

One person will not be able to do all the work if 8 of them cannot. The manager is there to organize and keep people working. Zurkiba has the potential to become a great manager.

Googi · #44 11-23-2004, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

One person will not be able to do all the work if 8 of them cannot.

If that is the case, then 2K1 will not be revived.

zell12 · #45 11-23-2004, 05:04 AM

You dont get the point. Lance is responsible for keeping his staff going and make sure this crap is being worked on. His job is not to be developing anything, but it would be nice if the Manager could do something like that. But again, it is not his job.

G2k1 will be revived if Lance starts doing something, or someone else takes over (like Zurk), because from the stories im getting he is not doing a thing. I don't know this for sure, and I would love to talk to Tseng first before I start taking sides. But something has to give here.

Googi · #46 11-23-2004, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

You dont get the point. Lance is responsible for keeping his staff going and make sure this crap is being worked on. His job is not to be developing anything, but it would be nice if the Manager could do something like that. But again, it is not his job.

Graal2001's situation is different from that of a server already running. Reviving a server must be approached in the same way as creating one. The founder must have something to show before there can be any real hope of any considerable external help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

or someone else takes over (like Zurk), because from the stories im getting he is not doing a thing. I don't know this for sure, and I would love to talk to Tseng first before I start taking sides. But something has to give here.

The same thing was said when Jeff was to take over from Kamuii. The same when Tseng was to take over from Jeff. There will be a short time where it appears something is getting done. Perhaps the server will even make it back onto the serverlist for a while, but it will die quickly, the staffing will not be sustained. I am not taking a side here, go ahead and make Zurkiba manager. I do not care if Zurkiba or Tseng is manager because I know that nothing will change.

Zurkiba · #47 11-23-2004, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

There are many staff members on 2K1 not getting anything done, and it is not because of Tseng. If 2K1 is ever revived, it will be because one person rebuilt it themselves. And that person is going to need to be able to script and make levels at a very high degree of skill. Zurkiba is not that person, and it is quite possible that such a person does not exist who is willing to become manager of 2K1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Did Kamuii not have such an army? Did Jeff not have such an army? Did Tseng not have such an army? They did. It made no difference.

My "army", If that's what you want to call it, is willing to work for me and the revival of 2k1.

If anything you have proven that a manager needs leadership skills. You simply cant have a band of staff, but you need those leadership skills.

We dont live in a world where the Chieftain is the strongest Warrior anylonger. We live in a world where the organizers become the leaders and achieve great things.

There is a reason on why we were only able to achieve the technological advance of fire, shelter, etc with these Warrior Chieftains and how we were able to achieve such monuments as the Pyramids of Giza, the building of Rome, and the landing on the moon with this new generation of leader.

zell12 · #48 11-23-2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Graal2001's situation is different from that of a server already running. Reviving a server must be approached in the same way as creating one. The founder must have something to show before there can be any real hope of any considerable external help.

The same thing was said when Jeff was to take over from Kamuii. The same when Tseng was to take over from Jeff. There will be a short time where it appears something is getting done. Perhaps the server will even make it back onto the serverlist for a while, but it will die quickly, the staffing will not be sustained. I am not taking a side here, go ahead and make Zurkiba manager. I do not care if Zurkiba or Tseng is manager because I know that nothing will change.

There is two kingdoms that need to be finished to my understanding. I know for a fact the jobs need to be altered so they are not buttion mashing jobs. Other than that the OW needs touching up, mabey a few new updates every week like some new games, towns, or special things.

Anyway, that stuff can be discussed at another time in another thread.

Googi · #49 11-23-2004, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

My "army", If that's what you want to call it, is willing to work for me and the revival of 2k1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If anything you have proven that a manager needs leadership skills. You simply cant have a band of staff, but you need those leadership skills.

What do you think? That as manager you can just tell someone "Make bomy battling", or even "Make bomy battling by this date or your fired".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

We dont live in a world where the Chieftain is the strongest Warrior anylonger. We live in a world where the organizers become the leaders and achieve great things.

Who was Disney's first artist? Walt Disney. Microsoft's first programmer? Bill Gates. If you want to found a new Graal2001, you need to be the first scripter, and the first level maker.

Kaimetsu · #50 11-23-2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Googi, Zurkiba has an ARMY of the most talented people on graal

Like heck he does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaabHimself

Why is it required that a MANAGER has to script or make levels? A manager needs one skill, leadership.

Then who handles the design?

zell12 · #51 11-23-2004, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Then who handles the design?

The designer? (Smart-ass Excal

)

Anyway, I have alot of people on AIM and like 2 on MSN, that want to help develop, and I only looked once. :/ I'm sure if Zurk got Manager, Scott would help and so would some others. I already know shadowless won't. ;o

Googi · #52 11-23-2004, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

I have alot of people on AIM and like 2 on MSN, that want to help develop, and I only looked once.

A lot of people want to help develop. I want to help develop. But I'm no good at online scripting. Are they?

zell12 · #53 11-23-2004, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

A lot of people want to help develop. I want to help develop. But I'm no good at online scripting. Are they?

We dont need scripters to my understanding.

Googi · #54 11-23-2004, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

We dont need scripters to my understanding.

Because, as everyone knows, the scripters on 2K1 are creating excellent scripts.

zell12 · #55 11-23-2004, 05:56 AM

They were. Why would they now if nothing is going on?

--Chris-- · #56 11-23-2004, 06:01 AM

Scott, that post was with the exception of Shadowless. It's pretty obvious if I previously mentioned him working on kingdoms alone. I kinda forgot about you ;p You were awesome aswell though. I never said my skills (atleast in graphics) were superior to yours, where did that come from?

Zurkiba can make a good manager, he is a good leader, I've been under him in kingdoms and we talk on a personal level. I just saw it as a risk to replace an experienced, skilled manager that will get the server there slowly but surely.

I predict them working together =p

Kaimetsu · #57 11-23-2004, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

The designer?

Which is usually also the manager. Design is easily as important as development, and so far we've seen no guarantee that Zurkiba has any skill in this area.

Quote:

I have alot of people on AIM and like 2 on MSN, that want to help develop

Sure, but how many will stay for longer than two weeks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

We dont need scripters to my understanding.

You need more understanding.

protagonist · #58 11-23-2004, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Which is usually also the manager. Design is easily as important as development, and so far we've seen no guarantee that Zurkiba has any skill in this area.

It's not nearly as important as development. You know, they hire managers from stores because of management skills, not because they can stock shelves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Sure, but how many will stay for longer than two weeks?

If I were asked, I would. In fact, I'd offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You need more understanding.

Are you defending Tseng's absence?

zell12 · #59 11-23-2004, 06:06 AM

You have no idea what is going on. So until you or myself get clear facts about what is needed, I am basing that off of what people involved in the server told me.

And I always figured the manager just managed the server, not made levels or scripts. x-x

Quote:

From Dictionary.com:

Manager: he who handles, controls, or directs, especially:

1. One who directs a business or other enterprise.
2. One who controls resources and expenditures, as of a household.

Googi · #60 11-23-2004, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

And I always figured the manager just managed the server, not made levels or scripts. x-x

Well, welcome to Graal.

Kaimetsu · #61 11-23-2004, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

until you or myself get clear facts about what is needed, I am basing that off of what people involved in the server told me

So basically you decided to blindly believe their spiel, and are now criticising people for being critical?

Quote:

I always figured the manager just managed the server, not made levels or scripts. x-x

Managers qua managers are only required to manage. Obviously. But if they don't also script then the server invariably fails.

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

It's not nearly as important as development

Tell that to all the managers of failing playerworlds, who decided on generic systems and gameplay mechanisms instead of innovating and/or designing something playable.

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You know, they hire managers from stores because of management skills, not because they can stock shelves

How is this supposed to be relevant to the matter of design vs development?

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If I were asked, I would. In fact, I'd offer

Within your field, are you "[one of] of the most talented people on graal"?

Quote:

Are you defending Tseng's absence?

Nope, and nor am I condemning him. I'm merely assessing Zurkiba's proposal.

protagonist · #62 11-23-2004, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Tell that to all the managers of failing playerworlds, who decided on generic systems and gameplay mechanisms instead of innovating and/or designing something playable.

That's the managers' faults.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

How is this supposed to be relevant to the matter of design vs development?

You don't have to know how to develop in order to manage effectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Within your field, are you "[one of] of the most talented people on graal"?

I can pull my weight.

Kaimetsu · #63 11-23-2004, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

That's the managers' faults

Yes. Because they put development over design.

Quote:

You don't have to know how to develop in order to manage effectively

How is this supposed to be relevant to the matter of design vs development?

Quote:

I can pull my weight

Seems you didn't answer my question. I wonder what I should conclude from this!

xAndrewx · #64 11-23-2004, 10:58 AM

what ever anyone does even if zurk gets manager he's just going to fail like lance; he has an opportunity to proove himself here like lance had he failed. It's too big of a challenge for someone to do.. Give it to someone who has experience or atleast can handle the project..

Matt, 6-8 hours of levels is good but I believe it takes an hour to do one level for a few people? some advice do the design and then do the leveling..

2k1 needs someone who hasn't even played 2k1 to be the manager.. He then can be devoted to see it online therefore making him want to finish it.

oh-well lets hear what stefan has to say..

zell12 · #65 11-23-2004, 01:07 PM

Kai, a Manager is supposed to manage period. Nothing more. Lance could script and stuff, but you don't see G2k1 done do you. Naw. Same with plenty of other servers, so why the hell would you say something stupid like that?

Emily_Cruddas · #66 11-23-2004, 03:04 PM

I don't know what is and is not allowed for a server, but can lance make Zurkiba some type of co-manager? So while one person is busy outside of graal there's a second person to rely on and things will be done much faster (i hope?)

And it seems to me the only way a server can be made is if EVERYBODY can script, make levels and ganis, and pretty much everything, at least that's what i'm hearing most of you type, and to Zurkiba, can you forum PM me the list of folks you have ready to help? Or have them forum PM me? I'll be pretty impressed to see who's willing.

You too lance, I'm sure if folks know who's got the team for the job they would more help that person.

Zurkiba · #67 11-23-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Well, welcome to Graal.

Yet again someone who demerits the potential of Graal just because it is Graal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

what ever anyone does even if zurk gets manager he's just going to fail like lance; he has an opportunity to proove himself here like lance had he failed. It's too big of a challenge for someone to do.. Give it to someone who has experience or atleast can handle the project..

Matt, 6-8 hours of levels is good but I believe it takes an hour to do one level for a few people? some advice do the design and then do the leveling..

2k1 needs someone who hasn't even played 2k1 to be the manager.. He then can be devoted to see it online therefore making him want to finish it.

oh-well lets hear what stefan has to say..

I highly doubt you have the ability to predict the future, I also believe that your statements are far-fetched as I dont know you and you dont know me.

2k1 needs someone who hasn't even played 2k1 to be the manager? Horrible planning as the sole people who sincerely want 2k1 up are the previous 2k1 players. This isn't a 'I want 2k1 up' type thing. The previous players have a feeling deep down in their heart that is stuck there that says 'I want 2k1 back and I will do what ever it takes to achieve that'

xAndrewx · #68 11-23-2004, 03:29 PM

arn't you the manager of the graal3d project? i'm sure you can't manage both at once.

I doubt it. Show us your skills then, preswade me to believe that you can do this. Show me your work.

NeoJenova · #69 11-23-2004, 04:08 PM

I did not play much of G2K1 when it was out so I am not really including myself into the community.

But, it seems like the community of players is what is keeping this server alive and is the only way for its revival.

If the players are the key to its revival, the choice of manager should be that of the players. Elect a leader for your server, make individual opinions known as to how you want your server ran. Enough support should inspire a movement forward into revival for a server as loved as this one is. Stefan is liable to do something to satisfy you the player/customer, when he has time available.

Atleast thats my take on the situation. I may be mistaken.

zell12 · #70 11-23-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

arn't you the manager of the graal3d project? i'm sure you can't manage both at once.

Why couldn't he?

Quote:

I doubt it. Show us your skills then, preswade me to believe that you can do this. Show me your work.

He doesn't have to do anything for you, but he told the community in his speech what he could offer, and if you read the speech completely -- without picking out what you wanted to read -- you would know exactly what his skills are, and why he has the potental to become Graal2001's manager.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

I did not play much of G2K1 when it was out so I am not really including myself into the community.
But, it seems like the community of players is what is keeping this server alive and is the only way for its revival.

Actually, the server is dead right now. The only way for revival is if Lance decides to get his act together or step down to allow Zurkiba to take over.

Quote:

If the players are the key to its revival, the choice of manager should be that of the players.

The players are again, not key to the survival, the staff would be. If you read the previous posts about this, you would understand that the server needs staff before the players can support the server by being involved on it and playing it. Right now it is not even on the server list, how do you expect the players to support it? Like someone said before, you don't see 50 people on Oasis or some other development server, do you?

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Elect a leader for your server, make individual opinions known as to how you want your server ran. Enough support should inspire a movement forward into revival for a server as loved as this one is.

Zurkiba has appointed himself to the community and has volunteered to become the next manager if need be. This decision is really up to Spark or Stefan, if Lance does not decide soon.

Quote:

Stefan is liable to do something to satisfy you the player/customer, when he has time available.

Not really. He can do whatever he wants to pretty much if you read the TOC, and if you disagree you can discontune playing, but I would not like that.

xAndrewx · #71 11-23-2004, 04:40 PM

i wouldn't like someone as a manager who's only good at speeches x-x
what about the development? that's what 2k1 needs

Zurkiba · #72 11-23-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

what about the development? that's what 2k1 needs

Please read the posts before replying. I requested this in my first post.

NeoJenova · #73 11-23-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Actually, the server is dead right now. The only way for revival is if Lance decides to get his act together or step down to allow Zurkiba to take over.

The actual server may be dead, but without players caring for it as shown in many different instances it would not even have a thread of this magnitude devoted to its revival so in a sense it is alive within its players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

The players are again, not key to the survival, the staff would be. If you read the previous posts about this, you would understand that the server needs staff before the players can support the server by being involved on it and playing it. Right now it is not even on the server list, how do you expect the players to support it? Like someone said before, you don't see 50 people on Oasis or some other development server, do you?

Staff is key to its development. The players are what will bring the server back to life and revive the server back to its former glory. Without the players support it will only be brought back for another failure. So, yes players are key to its revival.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Zurkiba has appointed himself to the community and has volunteered to become the next manager if need be. This decision is really up to Spark or Stefan, if Lance does not decide soon.

I still think Zurkiba should ask public opinion, even though I think everyone is willing to give him and chance to get things moving and he has plenty of support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Not really. He can do whatever he wants to pretty much if you read the TOC, and if you disagree you can discontune playing, but I would not like that.

Oh, so true.

xAndrewx · #74 11-23-2004, 04:55 PM

no thx just show us some of your own development.

NeoJenova · #75 11-23-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

no thx just show us some of your own development.

I am viewing the board in linear mode. I was wondering who this comment is towards?

xAndrewx · #76 11-23-2004, 05:02 PM

zurkiba

Zurkiba · #77 11-23-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

no thx just show us some of your own development.

I believe God gives every single person some type of creative ability, sometimes he gives people more. I believe that God granted me the ability to be a leader. This is my opinion and I will not sway from it.

And yet again... please read all of the posts before you reply, as all of your questions have been answered or addressed before and I will not answer them when they are aviable for you to read. I will not argue with you.

xAndrewx · #78 11-23-2004, 05:29 PM

so you want to help 2k1 with what? im sorry but 2k1 needs development it dosn't need another lance.

Kaimetsu · #79 11-23-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Kai, a Manager is supposed to manage period

Can't you read? In the role of manager, a manager needs do nothing more than manage. This is obvious enough even for you. But the lifeblood of servers is gscript, and the only way for the manager to guarantee that he'll have it is to produce it himself. If he can't, he's left relying on a few volunteers who'll whine about being given boring jobs and most likely jump ship within a month.

Now, I have to put an extra paragraph in here because you're not very good at understanding things: This is not to say that scripter managers always succeed. That is bad logic. There are multiple requirements, one of which is passion and dedication. If scripter managers have failed in the past then perhaps they lacked this, I don't know. The point is that, even if Zurkiba fulfils all of the other requirements, he will still fail if he can't secure reliable script input.

Googi · #80 11-23-2004, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Yet again someone who demerits the potential of Graal just because it is Graal.

How am I demeriting the potential of Graal. I'm merely saying that to be manager of a successful server on Graal, merely managing is not enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

a Manager is supposed to manage period

Being able to manage alone makes them manager of a failed server. Being able to develop makes them manager of a successful server. Both managers fit the definition of manager, but only one succeeded.