I go bye..

[LordMatt]

Welcome to Graal!! Thanks for upgrading your account and playing Graal. Your account LordMatt still has 3 days and 0 hours to play.


This looks like the end for me until the beginning of next summer, who knows I may be back sooner than I think for Graal 3d. Anyways, I made this somewhat early because school tomorrow, the next day, and school & football game the day after that. In other words, my last 3 days of gold I do not have time for. Tootles.

[Brad]

UH NOT NICE KNOWING YOU (LOL FUNNY GUYS HUH?)


anyways hugz <31!~

[TESTRETIS]

Nooo!!! We still have to go to the movies and watch Harry Potter 4: Goblet of fire!!!!!

[Splke]

Originally Posted by LordMatt

This looks like the end for me until the beginning of next summer, who knows I may be back sooner than I think for Graal 3d.

HAHA SCOTT R OWNT U ^ WITH HIS CARE BEAR <3IN

-HUGS-

[xXziroXx]

Cya Matt, you better be back >:O

[LordMatt]

man i just couldnt stay away...

[Leasure-13]

Originally Posted by LordMatt

man i just couldnt stay away...

Hmm... ok welcome back

[ZanderX]

Originally Posted by LordMatt

man i just couldnt stay away...

What a pity.

[Brad]

damnit.
.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by LordMatt

man i just couldnt stay away...

Good , nice to see you back

[Zero Hour]

Ain't no mercy.

[Galdor]

wtfh ?

[TESTRETIS]

Originally Posted by Galdor

wtfh ?

Im with you..im rather lost :O
Welcome back dudder :O

[Scott]

Somone deleted my post. *******s.

[Leasure-13]

Originally Posted by Scott

Somone deleted my post. *******s.

Hmmm... What else is new??

[syltburk]

Lol.. The irony in this made me laught...


Welcome back.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by Scott

Somone deleted my post. *******s.

Stefan did

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Stefan did

Whoa, I feel special.

[LordMatt]

keep up the good work stefan

[Splke]

Aww ****, your back?

[Zethar]

Originally Posted by Splke

Aww ****, your back?

at kai cause of argo's quote: i'm not religious, but you just dont say something like that.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Zethar

i'm not religious, but you just dont say something like that .

Why not, kiddo?

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why not, kiddo?

Because you have no more evidence than theists do.


Until you can explain why things are arranged as they are, you cannot rule the logical world with how. You can prove that people are made of atoms, but you cannot prove why atoms form the way they do. I think it's far less logical that chaos rules the universe, but that is probably the most feasible explanation you can come up with. What theists use to explain it is irrelevant; the fact is yours is really, really far fetched.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Because you have no more evidence than theists do.

Which theists? There are far more possible gods than there are atoms in the universe. This alone would be enough to justify the statement I made; no matter which one you choose, there's an infinity of alternatives you're turning down.

Until you can explain why things are arranged as they are, you cannot rule the logical world with how

I'm not attempting to rule any world. Even if I were, I would probably try to be armed with more than just an italicised word.

AKA: What are you talking about?

As I explained on AIM, you can't explain the existence or nature of the universe any more than an agnostic. But neither of us needs this knowledge to reason about the theories on offer, and reject the more bloated amongst them.

I think it's far less logical that chaos rules the universe

And I think you're a victim of theological spintalk. A universe doesn't need to be chaotic in order to be godless, although that's certainly an option. In any case, it's not enough to simply declare an opinion. Are you willing to back it up?

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Which theists? There are far more possible gods than there are atoms in the universe. This alone would be enough to justify the statement I made; no matter which one you choose, there's an infinity of alternatives you're turning down.

That's very closeminded. You're assuming that all gods are exactly as their holy text describes them.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I'm not attempting to rule any world. Even if I were, I would probably try to be armed with more than just an italicised word.

AKA: What are you talking about?

As I explained on AIM, you can't explain the existence or nature of the universe any more than an agnostic. But neither of us needs this knowledge to reason about the theories on offer, and reject the more bloated amongst them.

Are there any non-bloated ones? You can say how theism is bad and yours is better because it fits a simplistic system?

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And I think you're a victim of theological spintalk. A universe doesn't need to be chaotic in order to be godless, although that's certainly an option. In any case, it's not enough to simply declare an opinion. Are you willing to back it up?

I am challenging you to provide a better idea.

[Zethar]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why not, kiddo?

take a wild guess, poindexter.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

That's very closeminded. You're assuming that all gods are exactly as their holy text describes them

I'm doing no such thing. You're assuming that the only conceivable gods are those that have been worshipped by humans. In actuality there are trillions of mutually-exclusive feasible entities, all qualifying for the description 'god'. In choosing one, you reject all the others. On what grounds could anybody possibly argue that theirs is more valid than another? If you roll an infinity-sided dice, what's the probability of getting a six?

Are there any non-bloated ones?

Certainly there are. I believe I even linked you to one a short time ago.

But any such theory is necessarily built around a core of uncertainty. What you are advocating is a god of the gaps - an entity invented to fill holes in our knowledge by migrating our ignorance. You create a god to explain the universe but you don't explain why he exists. Any argument you use is just a more bloated version of an atheistic equivalent.

I am challenging you to provide a better idea.

A better idea than what? A chaotic universe? I already explained that it isn't a prerequisite for godlessness. And besides, I don't have any means of deciding whether an ordered universe is better or more logical than a chaotic one. Neither do you.

Summary: If you can't defend a statement, don't make it.

Originally Posted by Zethar

take a wild guess, poindexter.

Because it hurts your feelings? Because you'll smack me down!? D=

Nobody is afraid of you. You are weak and insignificant. I'll do whatever the heck I like, and I won't ask for your permission first

[Zero Hour]

Kaimetsu is certainly an interesting person.

[Zethar]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Because it hurts your feelings? Because you'll smack me down!? D=

Nobody is afraid of you. You are weak and insignificant. I'll do whatever the heck I like, and I won't ask for your permission first

HAHA man you are the biggest ****ing nerd ever. Hehe look at me i'm strong and significant and can do whatever I want and no one will stop me! ****ing idiot, it's the internet. What do you expect someone to come to your house and kick your ass?

[LordMatt]

lets not fight, lets welcome me back!

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I'm doing no such thing. You're assuming that the only conceivable gods are those that have been worshipped by humans. In actuality there are trillions of mutually-exclusive feasible entities, all qualifying for the description 'god'. In choosing one, you reject all the others. On what grounds could anybody possibly argue that theirs is more valid than another? If you roll an infinity-sided dice, what's the probability of getting a six?

Let's think of it this way: maybe some gods will excuse ignorance of following a different religion. God sees that the theist has the capability and humility to dedicate his or herself to a cause.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Certainly there are. I believe I even linked you to one a short time ago.

You linked something about the mind and brain, but nothing about the creation of the universe.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

But any such theory is necessarily built around a core of uncertainty. What you are advocating is a god of the gaps - an entity invented to fill holes in our knowledge by migrating our ignorance. You create a god to explain the universe but you don't explain why he exists. Any argument you use is just a more bloated version of an atheistic equivalent.

I don't think that any entity was invented to fill holes. I think the holes were put there later.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

A better idea than what? A chaotic universe? I already explained that it isn't a prerequisite for godlessness. And besides, I don't have any means of deciding whether an ordered universe is better or more logical than a chaotic one. Neither do you.

Summary: If you can't defend a statement, don't make it.

There are infinite possibilities that would allow theists to go to heaven simply for believing in something higher than themselves and atheists to go to hell because they don't believe in something higher than themselves. But we aren't dealing with infinite solutions, just one. All that can be done is speculation as to what that one is... and speculation doesn't get anyone anywhere. Theists are sure of what exists, and they have as much proof as you do. You do not know what, if anything, exists and have as much proof as they do. Theists will ultimately have potential to live their lives not wondering questions without answers. That seems far superior than living searching for or wondering about the unobtainable.

[ZanderX]

Originally Posted by Zethar

HAHA man you are the biggest ****ing nerd ever. Hehe look at me i'm strong and significant and can do whatever I want and no one will stop me! ****ing idiot, it's the internet. What do you expect someone to come to your house and kick your ass?

lol u nerdz suck lolsss

[skyler87]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Because it hurts your feelings? Because you'll smack me down!? D=

Nobody is afraid of you. You are weak and insignificant. I'll do whatever the heck I like, and I won't ask for your permission first

Noone is afraid of you either, junior, because this is the internet. In real life, you're probably some unemployed, 400 lb British man who only argues with children in an online forum because that's all you can and all you ever will do with your life. You wouldn't say **** to anyone, because you probably suffer from social anxieties that you got from spending all of your time playing your damned computer.

[ZanderX]

Originally Posted by skyler87

Noone is afraid of you either, junior, because this is the internet. In real life, you're probably some unemployed, 400 lb British man who only argues with children in an online forum because that's all you can and all you ever will do with your life. You wouldn't say **** to anyone, because you probably suffer from social anxieties that you got from spending all of your time playing your damned computer.

lol ur a fat nerd LOL!!!!!!

[zell12]

Originally Posted by ZanderX

lol ur a fat nerd LOL!!!!!!

LOLOOOLOLOLLO MAN THs R s0 FUNY!

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by skyler87

Noone is afraid of you either, junior, because this is the internet. In real life, you're probably[...]

LOL OMG THEN UR A CAPTURED ALIEN-BABY WHO IS CAPTURED AND IN A VAT IN AREA 51 LOLOLOL

There's a tendency amongst unintelligent internet people. It goes like this: "That guy is mentally superior to me in every conceivable way! Ow, my ego! I have no choice but to assume that he is fat and ugly and weak!"

I'm slim, I'm trim, and I could break you in half. Face the reality that, inevitably, some of the people you hate will be vastly superior to you.

Originally Posted by Zethar

What do you expect someone to come to your house and kick your ass?

Of course not. See, I was mocking you. But wouldn't it be funny if you tried?

You seemed to be under the impression that your opinion mattered - that you had some power here. I was merely addressing this delusion.

Originally Posted by protagonist

Let's think of it this way: maybe some gods will excuse ignorance of following a different religion

VT, please at least keep track of the debate and remember how it started. I don't care if any god is nice and forgiving. The issue at hand is whether or not a given person's religious beliefs are accurate, not where he'll go after he dies.

You linked something about the mind and brain, but nothing about the creation of the universe

The brain thing was a different link entirely. The other was to a page describing theories describing the universe in terms of 'D-branes'. Perhaps you read the first few paragraphs and then fled back to your comforting, easy-to-understand fairytale explanation.

I don't think that any entity was invented to fill holes. I think the holes were put there later

No, those holes have always existed and will continue to exist until somebody provides proof about the universe's origins. In any case, you only believe in one god. You would be willing to describe some of the others as gap-filling gods, yes?

Theists will ultimately have potential to live their lives not wondering questions without answers. That seems far superior than living searching for or wondering about the unobtainable.

Really? You think self-imposed intellectual imprisonment sounds like a good time?

What about other factors, such as the demands most religions place on their believers? Agnostics are not subject to such pointless hindrances. And do you realise that we have strayed from the original point?

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

VT, please at least keep track of the debate and remember how it started. I don't care if any god is nice and forgiving. The issue at hand is whether or not a given person's religious beliefs are accurate, not where he'll go after he dies.

You are the one who keeps using the "there are so many religions, I can't choose one" argument. I'm saying that it is more than likely that, were that true, the deity would forgive those with humility, since most religions teach that their gods have a threshold of forgiveness.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

The brain thing was a different link entirely. The other was to a page describing theories describing the universe in terms of 'D-branes'. Perhaps you read the first few paragraphs and then fled back to your comforting, easy-to-understand fairytale explanation.

I don't remember any such link.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, those holes have always existed and will continue to exist until somebody provides proof about the universe's origins. In any case, you only believe in one god. You would be willing to describe some of the others as gap-filling gods, yes?

Possibly, but maybe my God is the same god as other religions follow.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Really? You think self-imposed intellectual imprisonment sounds like a good time?

What about other factors, such as the demands most religions place on their believers? Agnostics are not subject to such pointless hindrances. And do you realise that we have strayed from the original point?

Agnostics do not hold the answers, however. They simply hold postulations. Ones with no base, at that.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

You are the one who keeps using the "there are so many religions, I can't choose one" argument

No, more like 'there are so many religions, all of which are, more of less, equally valid, that the individual probability for any given one being true is less than 0.5'. Which is entirely pertinent to the matter at hand.

I'm saying that it is more than likely that, were that true, the deity would forgive those with humility

How the hell is forgiveness relevant?

I don't remember any such link

Well, that's entirely consistent with my theory. You would've wiped it from your mind as soon as you considered it a threat to your emotional safety net.

Possibly, but maybe my God is the same god as other religions follow

Not all religions, obviously.

Agnostics do not hold the answers, however. They simply hold postulations. Ones with no base, at that.

Nobody holds the answers. Agnostics simply accept the fact instead of filling their brains with comfort goo.

Also: What postulations?

[Zethar]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I'm slim, I'm trim, and I could break you in half. Face the reality that, inevitably, some of the people you hate will be vastly superior to you.

Haha, some slim guy who works out but is still an ugly bastard. I bet during high school you never even knew a single good looking girl.

Of course not. See, I was mocking you. But wouldn't it be funny if you tried?

You seemed to be under the impression that your opinion mattered - that you had some power here. I was merely addressing this delusion.

I was mocking you too

And i've never thought that, and never want to think that. Hay guyz I have some power in an online thing where i get paid nothing!!1! AND GUESS WHAT ELSE! MY OPINION MATTERS!


But honestly, why do you have to keep trying to press your views of religion upon other people, they believe, you don't. Get over it.

[Leasure-13]

WOW, this goodbye thred turned out ot be long.. I was like the 3rd.. 4th maybe poster on this. And it is still going....offtopic i take it?