Managers working as staff?

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I have no idea what to follow anymore, it seems the rules Nemesis set dont apply, yet some people are saying they do....someone set it straight.

well, i think the PWA is a mess...
Nem, and Kish are gone... AfterShock is hardly ever on, and i heard he's probably going to quit after the summer is over... (due to school)
that only leaves Spark, and Houdini... and they don't really have the power to do that kind of stuff (setting up rules and such)

it should be interesting to see what's going to happen... since it is supposed to be up to the PWA what servers go to the second group.. but if there's only 2 of them, i wonder if they'll have the time to even rate all the servers, AND watch out for illigal content, and such...
*EDIT*

Originally posted by Lyndzey

Spark and I are working on a set of rules for the PWs to follow to end this confusion.

ok, that could work too
=x

[Golbez]

Originally posted by ETD

well, i think the PWA is a mess...
Nem, and Kish are gone... AfterShock is hardly ever on, and i heard he's probably going to quit after the summer is over... (due to school)
that only leaves Spark, and Houdini... and they don't really have the power to do that kind of stuff (setting up rules and such)

it should be interesting to see what's going to happen... since it is supposed to be up to the PWA what servers go to the second group.. but if there's only 2 of them, i wonder if they'll have the time to even rate all the servers, AND watch out for illigal content, and such...
*EDIT*

ok, that could work too
=x

Well, I think its time for Lyndzey to get Nems old job o.O

[Darlene159]

ETD, Aftershock is gone

[Tseng]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
Maybe someone should draw some conclusive rules up.
Then again, maybe nobody cares.

It would fall into Stefan/unixmad's lap then; all of the high PWA staff are gone now (Stefan informed me that Aftershock quit, when asked if he would receive Nemesis' job, if anyone would), and the current PWA staff are rather new to their position and are not in my opinion not able to draw up a set of conclusive rules, as they are still rather unfamiliar with them, themselves.

For example; a PWA member told me a few days ago about how they're not respected, they have little power, blah blah blah, and how it doesn't even matter to me anyway since Graal2001 is a "Stefan server" and he has no authority there, and the very next day he comes on RC there and insists that I should unban someone whom I banned for excessive harrassment. When it became clear to the PWA member that I was not going to unban that person, he made a comment along the lines of "you can't ignore me anymore." Now, this is a rather obvious contradiction to his previous day's statement, showing me that either he is not familiar with the rules, or he is familiar with the rules only when it suits his mood (victim mood = no power and no respect, power trip/selfish mood = can't be ignored).

Regardless of which case it falls into, he is not someone who I'd want making a list of rules for the servers.

As for nobody caring, a lot of people care. Just, nobody but Stefan or unixmad is really in a position to be making those kind of rules, and the people who are closest to that position (the current PWA members) seem to be rather unfit to.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
ETD, Aftershock is gone

well, i just remember a few months ago, AS told me he was quitting at the end of the summer... didn't know it would be this soon
=x

anyways, there needs to be like at least 5 PWA members, who know what they're doing, to enforce the rules, after they make the rules... because only 2 isn;t going to be that good when it comes to those monthly server moves, and stuff
=X

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by ETD

well, i just remember a few months ago, AS told me he was quitting at the end of the summer... didn't know it would be this soon
=x

anyways, there needs to be like at least 5 PWA members, who know what they're doing, to enforce the rules, after they make the rules... because only 2 isn;t going to be that good when it comes to those monthly server moves, and stuff
=X

Aftershock was kind of forced out

And PWA doesn't have as many responsibilites has it did before. So two are fine.

[Soul-Blade]

Umm how is that full of myself? Everything on that PW was made by me, so I should at least get the right to call it my own. I have had a enormous ammount of people already asking me to make my own game, and I have stuck with graal. The staff system I follow is extremely tight, and if you talk to anyone who has work for SA you would know. I am not making a "classic" world. I do not run a "classic" system. And I don't like Globals coming on and messing things they don't understand up...I don't/haven't broken any rules, unless being rude to snoopy globals is my crime.

And whoever said I would ban unixmad/stefan, try reading my post. I said I wouldn't touch them if they did anything, in fact I would be glad to show them the work I have...and if they did mess anything up, well nothing I can do. The globals on the other hand, I did not like most of them (especially on the GST, I only like Jagen, Angel, and Kaimetsu on that team). As for other globals, the only one I have alot of respect for is Lyndzey, and that little clash we had gave me way more respect for her (I was amazed - a high staff that actually cared for what people said about them, and wanted to find out whats wrong. It will be a sad day when lyndzey leaves her position, I sure am hoping she gets farther).

Sorry, but I don't have much respect for people who toss their authority around. I have plenty of respect for Unixmad and Stefan, because they know exactly what they are doing. Unixmad is a genius from the things he has done lately, and Stefan is a really nice guy, knows alot about history among other things.

The point is, I haven't had any trouble, because I don't cause any trouble, because I follow the rules. My own rules, which fit perfectly with graal rules. Actually, the rules I follow are to make a quality game, and with a quality game there is no vulgarity, there is no corruption in staff...so there is no problem. So if a global did come on, and I will use Nemesis as a example, and cause me problems...yeah I would probably ban him. Nothing wrong with that, you shouldn't be hostile with anyone unless they are hostile towards you. Someone trying to run a server when they have a mindset for the classic game does not know whats best for it, they think "Ah, well we need alot of GPs, some FAQs, other useless staff which can be replace by a secure, quality made NPCs and good integration of a tutorial, owner, co owner, admins...) No. Know what rankings do to people? It makes them want more. More power, get higher up. Know what that causes? Corruption, hostility between members.

Anywho, I went a little off on this, but surely you should understand what I am saying now. If you think I am full of myself, maybe I am, but the system I follow seems to be working rather nicely, and you will see when I release the PW.

(btw, Moon Goddess, I knew Moon God (Hells Bastard) way back, but I don't remember meeting you...did you have a different nick back then?)

[Darlene159]

(btw, Moon Goddess, I knew Moon God (Hells Bastard) way back, but I don't remember meeting you...did you have a different nick back then?)

I have used the same nick for a long time, pretty sad that we used to talk, and you even came on Npulse a few times to say Hi to me and you dont remember me, but it's no surprise, but lets not get off track

[Demon]

Uhm.. seems silly. Why would anyone even give a damn? Chrisz is really just the acting owner, theres more staff than just him.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Demon
Uhm.. seems silly. Why would anyone even give a damn? Chrisz is really just the acting owner, theres more staff than just him.

He is more than an owner. He is a manager. Manageing is a very big and time consuming responsibility.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Umm how is that full of myself?

[snip]

I am not making a "classic" world. I do not run a "classic" system. And I don't like Globals coming on and messing things they don't understand up...I don't/haven't broken any rules, unless being rude to snoopy globals is my crime.

Full of yourself statement #1.

And whoever said I would ban unixmad/stefan, try reading my post. I said I wouldn't touch them if they did anything, in fact I would be glad to show them the work I have...and if they did mess anything up, well nothing I can do.

Nemesis was your superior, same as Stefan/unixmad are your superiors. Would you ban your superior? You said outright the answer was yes.

The globals on the other hand, I did not like most of them (especially on the GST, I only like Jagen, Angel, and Kaimetsu on that team).

You don't like me? I don't mind. I don't like you very much either, especially after reading your comments in this thread. Additionally, this is full of yourself statement #2, who cares who you or do not like? They have a job, you have a job - you are not required to like your coworkers.

Sorry, but I don't have much respect for people who toss their authority around. I have plenty of respect for Unixmad and Stefan, because they know exactly what they are doing. Unixmad is a genius from the things he has done lately, and Stefan is a really nice guy, knows alot about history among other things.

People in other countries are generally much more knowledgable in the field of history (even including our own) than the average US citizen. Sad, but true.

The point is, I haven't had any trouble, because I don't cause any trouble, because I follow the rules. My own rules, which fit perfectly with graal rules. Actually, the rules I follow are to make a quality game, and with a quality game there is no vulgarity, there is no corruption in staff...so there is no problem.

Full of yourself statement #3, at least. To think that your rules are superior to the graalonline rules, you are committing a grave error. May I point out that there is no problem because there has not been a disagreement between you and one of your superiors (Such as Nemesis was) which would have resulted in the aforementioned hypothetical case of you banning him?

So if a global did come on, and I will use Nemesis as a example, and cause me problems...yeah I would probably ban him. Nothing wrong with that, you shouldn't be hostile with anyone unless they are hostile towards you.

Oh. You can ban your boss if you aren't following their rules, I understand perfectly.

Someone trying to run a server when they have a mindset for the classic game does not know whats best for it, they think "Ah, well we need alot of GPs, some FAQs, other useless staff which can be replace by a secure, quality made NPCs and good integration of a tutorial, owner, co owner, admins...) No. Know what rankings do to people? It makes them want more. More power, get higher up. Know what that causes? Corruption, hostility between members.

A "classic server mindset" does not prevent someone from enforcing some type of global rule.

Anywho, I went a little off on this, but surely you should understand what I am saying now. If you think I am full of myself, maybe I am, but the system I follow seems to be working rather nicely, and you will see when I release the PW.

I understand that you're full of not only yourself, but crap as well. Good luck running a server with that kind of attitude!

[Kaimetsu]

Hmm.

It could certainly be argued that Soul Blade's philosophy does not comply with the chain of command, and that it may someday get him into trouble, but that's about it. You can't tell him to change his attitude about such things, or argue that it's intrinsically wrong. He's entitled to a stance on issues such as this, just as he is entitled to an opinion on ice-cream.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Hmm.

It could certainly be argued that Soul Blade's philosophy does not comply with the chain of command, and that it may someday get him into trouble, but that's about it. You can't tell him to change his attitude about such things, or argue that it's intrinsically wrong. He's entitled to a stance on issues such as this, just as he is entitled to an opinion on ice-cream.

Indeed - my problem is more with the hypothetical situation wherein his philosophy went against graalonline rules, and someone attempted to enforce a rule he did not agree with, that he would without hesitation ban his superior.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Tseng
Indeed - my problem is more with the hypothetical situation wherein his philosophy went against graalonline rules, and someone attempted to enforce a rule he did not agree with, that he would without hesitation ban his superior.

*shrugs*

You're right that his attitude could put him into trouble. Similarly, my propensity for eating ice-cream could lead to trouble in the form of a mind-numbing brain freeze, but you do not criticise my love of frozen treats. If he's willing to face the trouble then that's fine. He's entitled to his own outlook.

[craig17]

seems like there is really no one to step there foot down that has power to do so or not, its just a bunch of graal members and people with a little graal power disputing of what should be done. Graal in away is kind of collapsing.

There should be new people to fill in all the postions that are missing so graal can have order once again.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by craig17
seems like there is really no one to step there foot down that has power to do so or not, its just a bunch of graal members and people with a little graal power disputing of what should be done. Graal in away is kind of collapsing.

There should be new people to fill in all the postions that are missing so graal can have order once again.

Yes it is collapsing.
All these playerworlds, nobody monitoring them.
A friend of mine has been on 5 of them and been given
boots and such.
Barely anyone upholds rules anymore basically because
the whole structure has fallen down.
Those on high are nowhere to be seen,are saying nothing,
while we flounder.
Im merely stating my opinion as i see it.
Im not bashing those like Lyndzey and the other globals who are trying their best.

[Kaimetsu]

Graal isn't collapsing. In fact, the new PW renting system is allowing Graal to build itself higher than ever. Sure, there are teething problems, but that's to be expected. The world isn't going to end just yet.

[superb]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Graal isn't collapsing. In fact, the new PW renting system is allowing Graal to build itself higher than ever. Sure, there are teething problems, but that's to be expected. The world isn't going to end just yet.

Exactly. Give it some time guys. As a great man once said, "Rome have not been build in a day!"

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Graal isn't collapsing. In fact, the new PW renting system is allowing Graal to build itself higher than ever. Sure, there are teething problems, but that's to be expected. The world isn't going to end just yet.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion. The community that was often seen on playerworlds are likely to start failing, because playerworlds will try to hire people just to bolster their playercount. It will make Graal more money (vip upgrades and such), but the community status may suffer.

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by Demon
Uhm.. seems silly. Why would anyone even give a damn? Chrisz is really just the acting owner, theres more staff than just him.

No... Chrisz is a Manager. And a staff crew without a manager is like sheep without a herder. They'll just run off cliffs and into wolve's mouths.

Originally posted by TifaKhan


Yes it is collapsing.
All these playerworlds, nobody monitoring them.
A friend of mine has been on 5 of them and been given
boots and such.
Barely anyone upholds rules anymore basically because
the whole structure has fallen down.
Those on high are nowhere to be seen,are saying nothing,
while we flounder.
Im merely stating my opinion as i see it.
Im not bashing those like Lyndzey and the other globals who are trying their best.

*cough*
Zurkiba's System of Iron Fist Ruling will pay off
So
Erm...
*rips off clothes and runs into the wilderness screaming*

[tlf288]

Originally posted by protagonist

I suppose it's a matter of opinion. The community that was often seen on playerworlds are likely to start failing, because playerworlds will try to hire people just to bolster their playercount. It will make Graal more money (vip upgrades and such), but the community status may suffer.

It might not be the same for 6 months. After that I doubt those people will continue to pay for playerworlds after they see Managing a playerworld isn't as fun as they thought .

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by TifaKhan

Those on high are nowhere to be seen,are saying nothing,
while we flounder.
Im merely stating my opinion as i see it.
Im not bashing those like Lyndzey and the other globals who are trying their best.

If you think about it...who are the level 4s? Myself...

Stefan and unixmad cannot be expected to help out, they are busy in other work. Tyhm's RC is still down (I think) so we are without an admin right now. I am the accounts admin, not a PWA, so I'm not supposed to be going on other servers and doing anything about it (Nemesis told me I was to report everything to him, but he is gone now so I don't know what to do about it).

My plan for right now is to work with Spark and develop rules. I know it's not my job, but it's the least I can do when there are only 2 PWA doing all the work.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
And PWA doesn't have as many responsibilites has it did before. So two are fine.

but i think the PWA has one of the most important responcibilities...
it picks which servers can leave 'invisable' mode, and which have to go into that mode... meaning they need to judge the quality of all the servers online, and it's up to them which they think is a higher quality server...

also they are responcible for enforcing the general graal server rules (as far as i know), and even if they only had this job, you'd need more than just 2 people to enforce those rules accross like 50 servers
=x

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by ETD

but i think the PWA has one of the most important responcibilities...
it picks which servers can leave 'invisable' mode, and which have to go into that mode... meaning they need to judge the quality of all the servers online, and it's up to them which they think is a higher quality server...

also they are responcible for enforcing the general graal server rules (as far as i know), and even if they only had this job, you'd need more than just 2 people to enforce those rules accross like 50 servers
=x

I agree.

I think a couple more PWA need to be hired because I know that Spark has been working really hard and probably could use help. However, they are not hiring right now and there isn't anyone who can hire (other than unixmad)

[Golbez]

Originally posted by Lyndzey


I agree.

I think a couple more PWA need to be hired because I know that Spark has been working really hard and probably could use help. However, they are not hiring right now and there isn't anyone who can hire (other than unixmad)

Eye... that stinks.... I would try out but I wont make it >=(
Im friends with some people in the scripting team and the PWA of course that wont even help.... It would be sweet to see Ghost Pirate was a PWA =D

[draco5432]

I have seen hounidiman around, and i know he is working hard as a playerworld inspecter, but there is not much you can do without someone like Nemisis pulling some power with those servers corrupting graal.

[Soul-Blade]

Tseng, I wouldn't expect you to understand. You own Gk21 .

I would reply to every individual post, but I would rather point out your errors.

1) This is not a job. This is volunteer work. In fact, people are paying graal to work. If anything, this could be considered a hobby...but not even close to a job.

2) As I said, I may be full of myself, but it doesn't matter. I was simply pointing out what I would do in a situation which can never occur.

3) I would be breaking a inviduals rules...Nemesis was not graal. Guess who is? Unixmad and Stefan. If nemesis corruptly threw his powers around, all I am saying is I would respond negatively to it, regardless the result. But, in reality, Nemesis actually told PWA they were not to touch SA (Well, there is a story behind it with HoundiniMan...he wanted on, and I did openly deny him access. I didn't ban him, but my start screen, and auto-warper-out-of-world-when-using-warpto-without-propr-name-in-access-area NPC took effect. So he couldn't get in, and he believed it was his right to go in. In fact, I thought I knew it was his right, but this is how things work: Staff come and go, and staff are players. I deny players access for various reasons, and I will deny PWA, most likely players as well some time, access as well, until I am ready to release. Anyway, Houdini went to Nemesis, and I guess Nemesis said they can't touch it, so it came as a surprise to me as well). So anywho, that situation can never happen....

4) I never said I didn't like you (and if I did, it wasn't true when I posted it), but I did say who I did like. I really have no opinion to you, I don't dislike you, and I don't like you. That isn't insulting, it is like a friend, a enemy, and just someone who you know who isn't either. (Hence, why when PS logged onto SA with you, he said "Hello" I said "Get off" He stalled, I disconnected him, and allowed you to stay. Because I did not want you off...because you aren't considered a enemy, and you do not annoy me, or pretend to have skills you do not).

I probably missed some points, but I think my point has been made.

[Tseng]

Alrighty. I believe I have misjudged you, my apologies.

And...P.S... Hurry up and finish so we can see it!

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Tseng
Alrighty. I believe I have misjudged you, my apologies.

And...P.S... Hurry up and finish so we can see it!

*blinks*
.
.
.
.
.
You have got to be the first person, ever, to not continue a arguement. And people say graal is going downhill. Wow.
.
.
.
*speachless*

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Lyndzey


If you think about it...who are the level 4s? Myself...

Stefan and unixmad cannot be expected to help out, they are busy in other work. Tyhm's RC is still down (I think) so we are without an admin right now. I am the accounts admin, not a PWA, so I'm not supposed to be going on other servers and doing anything about it (Nemesis told me I was to report everything to him, but he is gone now so I don't know what to do about it).

My plan for right now is to work with Spark and develop rules. I know it's not my job, but it's the least I can do when there are only 2 PWA doing all the work.

I know you do Lyndzey, i did say thats why i didnt mean you and the others like HoudiniMan, and Spark. I always see you all trying your best with what powers you have.I respect you all 100% for what you must be going through.
I'm just disapointed that some members of the gst are getting paid to work on a server when perhaps they could be out helping you.
Even if it was only in theory, surely any help is better than none.
Im truly disappointed.
They have no time to help me, maybe because i cant afford to pay them too...

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
I'm just disapointed that some members of the gst are getting paid to work on a server

I don't know anything about that, but it's not as if they're breaking any rules. Their GST obligations don't require them to provide playerworlds with everything they want, so dedicated scripting is surplus to the job requirements. With that it mind, it's not unreasonable for them to accept payment for the extra effort.

when perhaps they could be out helping you.
Even if it was only in theory, surely any help is better than none.

Helping Lyndzey? How could we possibly help Lyndzey? She doesn't seem to need any scripts...

They have no time to help me, maybe because i cant afford to pay them too...

Your refusal to acknowledge our help only discourages us from giving it. We agreed, last time I was on Doomsday, that you would contact me when your scripters were more available. You haven't yet contacted me.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I don't know anything about that, but it's not as if they're breaking any rules. Their GST obligations don't require them to provide playerworlds with everything they want, so dedicated scripting is surplus to the job requirements. With that it mind, it's not unreasonable for them to accept payment for the extra effort.



Helping Lyndzey? How could we possibly help Lyndzey? She doesn't seem to need any scripts...



Your refusal to acknowledge our help only discourages us from giving it. We agreed, last time I was on Doomsday, that you would contact me when your scripters were more available. You haven't yet contacted me.

Im sorry if you thought any of this was aimed at you, because it isnt.
I know its not illegal for them to be paid to work on a server, i just think its sad that they are devoting their time to the one server when others need help?
Actually truth be known , i didnt even think of you when i posted that. Something happened awhile ago and i find myself in a state of mind where i dont wish to argue with you anymore.
And i havent refused to acknowledge your help at all, or the help of any member of the gst. I know you were told otherwise, but when you see other threads you will also note someone is faking our rc logs in an attempt to cause trouble.
Also i havent got in touch with you because i have the problem that my NAT Chief quit for better things outside Graal and his replacement isnt due back for some time yet.
So i cant continue with your suggestions.
May i just add what you did help me with caused no problems at all, and if you would like to, im happy for you to come and perhaps edit some more?
I apreciate all the help i can get.
Thank you

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
Im sorry if you thought any of this was aimed at you, because it isnt.

It seemed to be aimed at the GST as a whole. If it wasn't meant that way then I have no complaints.

I know its not illegal for them to be paid to work on a server, i just think its sad that they are devoting their time to the one server when others need help?

Hmm. Are you suggesting that every scripter has an obligation to help every server? Or that the GST should spend all of their free time making scripts for playerworlds?

And i havent refused to acknowledge your help at all, or the help of any member of the gst. I know you were told otherwise, but when you see other threads you will also note someone is faking our rc logs in an attempt to cause trouble.

I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the fact that you seemed to be complaining about the GST's lack of help and not acknowledging that we had recently visited Doomsday. If you were only talking about a few members then that's fine.

May i just add what you did help me with caused no problems at all, and if you would like to, im happy for you to come and perhaps edit some more?

I could, but I'd be wary of doing so. I know the kind of chaos it can cause, and it might not be advisable without a scripter crew at hand.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


It seemed to be aimed at the GST as a whole. If it wasn't meant that way then I have no complaints.



Hmm. Are you suggesting that every scripter has an obligation to help every server? Or that the GST should spend all of their free time making scripts for playerworlds?



I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the fact that you seemed to be complaining about the GST's lack of help and not acknowledging that we had recently visited Doomsday. If you were only talking about a few members then that's fine.



I could, but I'd be wary of doing so. I know the kind of chaos it can cause, and it might not be advisable without a scripter crew at hand.

*sigh*
In reply.
1)It wasnt aimed at the gst as a whole. Im sorry you thought it was.Ive tried to explain before, things are often misread or misunderstood.It wasnt intended to mean that.
2)I wasnt suggesting every scripter is obliged to help every server.Or that gst should spend their free time making scripts for playerworlds.
3)I was only talking about a few. (one really)
4)Seeing as everything seems alright now, thank you for your advice.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
I wasnt suggesting every scripter is obliged to help every server.Or that gst should spend their free time making scripts for playerworlds.

Well, is it so wrong for them to spend that free time making scripts for profit?

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Well, is it so wrong for them to spend that free time making scripts for profit?

I dont think i implied it was.
Is it really necessary to drag this on?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
I dont think i implied it was.
Is it really necessary to drag this on?

I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint. You criticised them for working for profit, and now you're saying that it's fine. If you don't want to justify your attacks then don't make them.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint. You criticised them for working for profit, and now you're saying that it's fine. If you don't want to justify your attacks then don't make them.

I simply said it saddened me to know they were working for profit when servers need help.

How was that critizing them?

I have said nothing derogatory against you, i have apologized,spoken without anger so kindly leave me alone.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TifaKhan
I simply said it saddened me to know they were working for profit when servers need help.

How was that critizing them?

All I'm saying is that it looked like you were implying that they shouldn't be doing it, and that it reflects badly on them. If it wasn't intentional then I retract my arguments.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


All I'm saying is that it looked like you were implying that they shouldn't be doing it, and that it reflects badly on them. If it wasn't intentional then I retract my arguments.

I wasnt implying that at all.