Mac dev tools

[excaliber7388]

So, when's it happening?
I'm getting my Mac at the end of the month, Graal, if you want to keep me, you know what to do

[Skyld]

It is likely that Mac development tools will become built-in to the client using GScript, since that makes it easier to develop recent tools for all platforms at the same time.

I am already working on the Scripted RC, there are people working on a level editor I think, and a GANI editor is probably not too difficult.

[excaliber7388]

I would rather they were all done in gscript, easy to use, and publicly available for online and offline use.
However, how do you expect to use these offline, when the offline editor doesn't support gs2?

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I would rather they were all done in gscript, easy to use, and publicly available for online and offline use.
However, how do you expect to use these offline, when the offline editor doesn't support gs2?

Well, I suppose the decision to provide an offline portion of the client in which we can in-build editor scripts is up to Stefan. It is possible that a download pack containing editor scripts could be downloaded by the client and could be used offline, I will possibly talk to Stefan about this.

[excaliber7388]

awesome.
I'm gonna miss the level editor, RC, and scripting the most.

[excaliber7388]

We really do need new programs however.
I just realized. Does the offline editor even work with mac? Probably not.
This is extremely lame.
At least make it so we can have offline tools.
Once I get a Mac I can start making simple programs on there that will help us out a bit...maybe (I'm not that great yet).
It's too bad they don't consider it a priority

[Tyhm]

Ideally, the client itself will have a mode wherein it -
No, strike that, the client will never have a built-in editor again, that's where we got all our leaks last iteration...
Offline tools are important. Graalshop, #1: At least so we can fully test the GRAPHIC side offline. If I'm on an 8 hour flight to Indianapolis, I could be working on Ganis, (if I had an actual laptop). Scripting...okay, let's be fair, you can script with Notepad. It's just that the average codemonkey doesn't WANT to, because the whole charm of Graal is that you have an idea, within 5 minutes you have a code sample to see if it'll work. No compile, no prototyping, code->test directly. And we're never going to get an offline emulation of NPCServ, because that's just a few lines of connection code away from GServ. And offline clientside testing, what the hell good is that?

I'm just spitballing here, but I don't think we're gonna get PC Development Tools, let alone Mac. Stefan's been talking on the "Hey looky my new editor" thread about how he's itching to assemble something, but what's it seriously gonna be? Tiling? Graphics? Clientside? It's never gonna be what we want, what we need, what we had in the days of 2.02; Graal is Online, there is no Offline Testing in any meaningful way.

That said, I think there should be a shared Whiteboard server for all we script editors. Special configuration so everyone has their own folder, capacity of 2 users, files deleted after 24 hours idle so you better damn well keep your own copy, and it should be free with VIP. Maybe even preload the space with a few useful scripted-tools - Online Tile Editor, etc.

[Devil]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

awesome.
I'm gonna miss the level editor, RC, and scripting the most.

Does this mean you will finally quit whinging?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

So, when's it happening?
I'm getting my Mac at the end of the month, Graal, if you want to keep me, you know what to do

Just get ****ing windows. You're not a rebel and Mac sucks.

[Devil]

Keep Excal? LOL.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Ideally, the client itself will have a mode wherein it -
No, strike that, the client will never have a built-in editor again, that's where we got all our leaks last iteration...
Offline tools are important. Graalshop, #1: At least so we can fully test the GRAPHIC side offline. If I'm on an 8 hour flight to Indianapolis, I could be working on Ganis, (if I had an actual laptop). Scripting...okay, let's be fair, you can script with Notepad. It's just that the average codemonkey doesn't WANT to, because the whole charm of Graal is that you have an idea, within 5 minutes you have a code sample to see if it'll work.

It's not just that, if you don't have an RC, or a server, you can't ever test it.

No compile, no prototyping, code->test directly. And we're never going to get an offline emulation of NPCServ, because that's just a few lines of connection code away from GServ. And offline clientside testing, what the hell good is that?

It would still allow use to test it, and make an entire server offline, and later upload it.

I'm just spitballing here, but I don't think we're gonna get PC Development Tools, let alone Mac. Stefan's been talking on the "Hey looky my new editor" thread about how he's itching to assemble something, but what's it seriously gonna be? Tiling? Graphics? Clientside? It's never gonna be what we want, what we need, what we had in the days of 2.02; Graal is Online, there is no Offline Testing in any meaningful way.

Which is bad, we need it.

That said, I think there should be a shared Whiteboard server for all we script editors. Special configuration so everyone has their own folder, capacity of 2 users, files deleted after 24 hours idle so you better damn well keep your own copy, and it should be free with VIP. Maybe even preload the space with a few useful scripted-tools - Online Tile Editor, etc.

That's not a bad idea, but not everyone has access to the internet. I can get on the internet, check email, etc. But I can't play graal because my connection is too slow. I need offline tools.

Originally Posted by Gerami

Just get ****ing windows. You're not a rebel and Mac sucks.

1). Windows is expensive
2). Windows ****ing sucks, why would I want to get windows, then have to get virus protection, then spyware, then a firewall, and have all fail me, and end up with viruses on a Mac just because of ****ing windows? This wasn't meant to be a Mac vs. PC debate, I'm telling you: Mac Dev tools are needed, as well as an updated set of dev tools. It's not that complicated. And I think it's more important than some of the other suggestions to help graal, ot some of the things they've done in the past.
Oh, and btw, there's nothing a PC can do that a Mac can't do better

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

1). Windows is expensive

Aim me one day. Im serious, my aim is CronoPker.

Also you say Windows sucks and yet not even Graal supports dev tools for mac? LOL OWNED

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Aim me one day. Im serious, my aim is CronoPker.

Also you say Windows sucks and yet not even Graal supports dev tools for mac? LOL OWNED

Right, allow me to make this clear: It is not a computer limitation, nor is it a software limitation on Apple's part. The only reason there are not any Mac dev tools is because Cyberjoueurs has not created any.

Now stop derailing the thread.

[Devil]

Hey Excal, I've NEVER used virus protection nor a firewall, just use your brain ffs.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Devil

Hey Excal, I've NEVER used virus protection nor a firewall, just use your brain ffs.

And all I have to do is put a trojan in an update package, get your IP from RC, and everything on your computer is mine.
Good ol' PCs

[Admins]

You cannot put exe/bat/com into updatepackages though

[excaliber7388]

It was a method, I'd never do it.
Still, there are other ways, .zip, other compressions, I'm sure it's possible.
Just saying, he can get a virus from the most unexpected spaces, and should have some virus protection...or a Mac.

Speaking of Mac...dev tools anyone?
Mine will be delivered late this week or early next week. I hate the fact that I won't be able to do anything on graal (because development IS Graal!)
Without it, playing isn't so great.
I have no idea why you would cut out the people using the Mac OS.

You know, Graal is featured on apple.com
*URL removed, just search apple and Graal* (Don't want this thread closed )
I think you own them some of your time

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Skyld

The only reason there are not any Mac dev tools is because Cyberjoueurs has not created any.

No because mac sux

on a more serious note I wonder why they haven't made any dev tools for mac yet? it's been over a year right

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Gerami

No because mac sux

on a more serious note I wonder why they haven't made any dev tools for mac yet? it's been over a year right

Probably because nobody at Cyberjoueurs is experienced enough with Mac.

[excaliber7388]

Mac tools, updated tools, and when?

[zell12]

You say PC sucks... What facts/information do you have to base that off of?

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by zell12

You say PC sucks... What facts/information do you have to base that off of?

*Sigh*
It was a joke...but.....
Design is bulky, not well thought out
No malware protection
Older OS
Vista is stolen off of an older Mac OS (Yay Leopard)
PCs can't multi task as well
Macs can do artistic and work stuff
Macs can run windows (omg, if we absolutely have to )
Macs can do more
Macs have drivers pre installed
Must I go on? I think not, since it would be
OFF TOPIC

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Design is bulky, not well thought out

What the **** do you know

No malware protection

zzz i haven't had a problem

Older OS

runs fine for me

Vista is stolen off of an older Mac OS (Yay Leopard)

yeah and mac has one mouse button

PCs can't multi task as well

UM???

Macs can do artistic and work stuff

LOL that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard

Macs can run windows (omg, if we absolutely have to )

So, windows can run mac too

Macs can do more

NO WINDOWS KAN DO MOR LIEK DEVELOP ON GRAAL LOL

Macs have drivers pre installed

Who cares, you're gonna have to update em anyway.

Must I go on? I think not, since it would be
OFF TOPIC

I say mods split this topic and we start another macsux vs windowrox thread

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Gerami

What the **** do you know

THat the mac is slimmer than any PCs, that it has a built in camera, that it has a magsafe power adapter, that it has a magnetic latch for the lid...

zzz i haven't had a problem

Download spybot, look at all your pretty spyware

runs fine for me

Sure, but it's years behind Tiger or Leopard

yeah and mac has one mouse button

Actually, the laptops allow scrolling with 2 fingers, right clicking with a tap of the trackpad with 2 fingers, and one big ol' mousebutton. The mice they sell have 5 buttons, including a scroll ball (not a scroll wheel) they also have bluetooth, touch sensitive shell, and aren't freaking huge.

UM???

I'd like to see you open 20-some programs with ease
Look up the game "Cold War" for Mac. It has great graphics, AI, and features for a shooter, and yet it requires a lot less hardware than a pc program with the same game would have.

LOL that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard

My Mac is coming with garage band, iLife, and iWork preinstalled, did you PC?

So, windows can run mac too

So far, the only legal way for a PC to run the Mac OS is through a ****ty emulator.

NO WINDOWS KAN DO MOR LIEK DEVELOP ON GRAAL LOL

I could always run windows, although no one wants to. Graal should have been put on the Mac first anyway, Mac's are clearly a better, more flexible, choice.

Who cares, you're gonna have to update em anyway.

Yeah, but it also means I can plug and go, and that the drivers aren't going to crash my OS (like my webcam and game controller have).

I say mods split this topic and we start another macsux vs windowrox thread

You'd get pwnd there too, just drop it and accept defeat.

[excaliber7388]

I should also add that putting windows on your mac requires a hard drive partition. I don't like to do this, because it has the possibility of making your hard drive less stable, and increases your chances of losing data. Who want's that?
Besides, I'd have to restart to switch between the two. Though Mac starts uo quickly, XP takes too long.

[zell12]

Go argue about MACs and PCs somewhere else. Only thing I took out of all that bs was something about the MACs looking ***. Hey, go buy a Shuttle case...

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by zell12

Go argue about MACs and PCs somewhere else. Only thing I took out of all that bs was something about the MACs looking ***. Hey, go buy a Shuttle case...

That's because you refused to read the damn thread. gtfo if you can't give something intelligent to the conversation.

[ryu_no_bishie]

For ****s sake shut the hell up about the PC/mac crap.

I think new tools would be great, im supprized how crappy creation tools are for graal considering how much of their player base is PW, lets face it, not many players bother with GOLD servers at all, heck you can even play zone if you dont have gold, sure you dont get to save anything, but its not needed either, just log on and play some games, if you really want to keep track of your killdeaths and junk put it in your profile

but the point is whoever develoups for graal needs to get updated editors and things to make the lives of develoupers easier, and what goes around comes around, i know that if i had the tools id be way more motivated. but as of now i dont even know what Gscript2 looks like. i dont know how to create a gmap, and untill i came to the forums i had no idea how to get ahold of a server, I understand that i can probably get ahold of this information if i work my ass off looking for it, and asking around, but i shouldnt have to, it should be available once i download that package with the big shiney lable that says develoupment tools.

whether this will happen or not is anyones guess. alot of staff and admins seem to be happy that it's possible and jumps on anyone new who asks why theres a giant bottleneck in the whole process. i mean, shesh, those newbies when will they stop whining right? (insert eye rolling smilie here)

[excaliber7388]

It is supprising.
Most of graal is development, yet this is the one thing that hasn't been improved on in a long time

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

THat the mac is slimmer than any PCs, that it has a built in camera, that it has a magsafe power adapter, that it has a magnetic latch for the lid...

Also much more expensive and doesnt have graal dev tools LOL

Download spybot, look at all your pretty spyware

I usually dont have much but its because no one BOTHERS WITH MAC (since it sux)

Sure, but it's years behind Tiger or Leopard

Who cares? XP is doing what I want it to

Actually, the laptops allow scrolling with 2 fingers, right clicking with a tap of the trackpad with 2 fingers, and one big ol' mousebutton. The mice they sell have 5 buttons, including a scroll ball (not a scroll wheel) they also have bluetooth, touch sensitive shell, and aren't freaking huge.

i dont care it doesnt have two fingers stock on all macs i win

I'd like to see you open 20-some programs with ease
Look up the game "Cold War" for Mac. It has great graphics, AI, and features for a shooter, and yet it requires a lot less hardware than a pc program with the same game would have.

I'd like to see you benchmark 3dmark05 on a mac

My Mac is coming with garage band, iLife, and iWork preinstalled, did you PC?

My PC came with a two finger mouse, lots of software to choose from, and was probably much cheaper than yor mac.

So far, the only legal way for a PC to run the Mac OS is through a ****ty emulator.

Well no one really wants to run the Mac OS anyway

Mac's are clearly a better, more flexible, choice.

I'm probably gonna get an infraction + week ban but that is the most ****ing stupid point you ever made in the history of mac vs windows

Yeah, but it also means I can plug and go, and that the drivers aren't going to crash my OS (like my webcam and game controller have).

i've never crashed due to driver issues

You'd get pwnd there too, just drop it and accept defeat.

Cali you couldn't pwn a fly if you tried. I win

AND ON THE SUBJECT OF GRAAL DEVELOPMENT TOOLS i want that level editor update

also would be nice for gs2 support :[

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Also much more expensive and doesnt have graal dev tools LOL

Would you look into things before you say it?
I've upgrading to a Mac with a faster processor, for the same price I got my dell at. Macs are cheaper if you add all the things they come with into the equasion. And it's not my fault they haven't prioritized right.

I usually dont have much but its because no one BOTHERS WITH MAC (since it sux)

No, cookies, spyware, that works on Mac, as do some viruses, but a Unix based OS with built in virus protection makes it much harder to make a virus for a Mac. All this **** about it sucking, yet you have no evidence, I shoot down everything you say with actual facts. Do some research.

Who cares? XP is doing what I want it to

And, XP sucks, it crashes, virus prone, and expensive.

i dont care it doesnt have two fingers stock on all macs i win

What are you talking about? The mighty mouse is a 5 button mouse. Did your PC come with one?

I'd like to see you benchmark 3dmark05 on a mac

I couldn't do it on my pc either.
Do it on a Mac Pro

My PC came with a two finger mouse, lots of software to choose from, and was probably much cheaper than yor mac.

My PC was $1500, my Mac is the same, but with a faster, more advanced processor. btw, all Macs now come with right click, either with the trackpad, or a 5 button, touch sensitive, bluetooth mighty mouse,

Well no one really wants to run the Mac OS anyway

Only the ignorant ones.

I'm probably gonna get an infraction + week ban but that is the most ****ing stupid point you ever made in the history of mac vs windows

I'd like to see your PC be able to run any OS out there. Schools are now getting Macs because the Mac OS is gaining market share and it will be important to know it. Plus, they have Xp on them so people can slowly switch over.

i've never crashed due to driver issues

Then maybe you haven't looked that deep into why your pC crashes so much.
Mine just froze while waking up.

Cali you couldn't pwn a fly if you tried. I win

You lose. Simply because you refuse to do research, or use logic.

AND ON THE SUBJECT OF GRAAL DEVELOPMENT TOOLS i want that level editor update

also would be nice for gs2 support :[

We agree on this!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Would you look into things before you say it?
I've upgrading to a Mac with a faster processor, for the same price I got my dell at. Macs are cheaper if you add all the things they come with into the equasion. And it's not my fault they haven't prioritized right.

How much was your computer

No, cookies, spyware, that works on Mac, as do some viruses, but a Unix based OS with built in virus protection makes it much harder to make a virus for a Mac. All this **** about it sucking, yet you have no evidence, I shoot down everything you say with actual facts. Do some research.

actually it's because no one cares enough to make big viruses for macs since hardly anyone uses macs to begin with

And, XP sucks, it crashes, virus prone, and expensive.

never crashes for me, i've never had a virus since 2002 when i was using windows ME, and no comment

What are you talking about? The mighty mouse is a 5 button mouse. Did your PC come with one?

Well I bought my PC part by part so I got an MX510 which has like 5 buttons and a kind of "alt tab" thing + up and down buttons which could probably be assigned something.

I couldn't do it on my pc either.
Do it on a Mac Pro

no you

My PC was $1500, my Mac is the same, but with a faster, more advanced processor. btw, all Macs now come with right click, either with the trackpad, or a 5 button, touch sensitive, bluetooth mighty mouse,

OMG MAC COPIED PC OMG OMG U THIEVES

Only the ignorant ones.

w/e

I'd like to see your PC be able to run any OS out there. Schools are now getting Macs because the Mac OS is gaining market share and it will be important to know it. Plus, they have Xp on them so people can slowly switch over.

last time i used a mac in school was an iMAC in sixth grade, im pretty damn sure there was a reason i haven't touched one since

Then maybe you haven't looked that deep into why your pC crashes so much.
Mine just froze while waking up.

my pc doesnt crash, unless of course i try to bump my GFX card core past it's limit

You lose. Simply because you refuse to do research, or use logic.

i clearly won

We agree on this!

WELL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPER TOOLS BUT JUST SO HAPPEN TO DISCUSS WHY MACS SUCK BEFOREHAND

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Gerami

How much was your computer

$1,500 both ways, Mac is a better computer
[QUOTE
actually it's because no one cares enough to make big viruses for macs since hardly anyone uses macs to begin with
[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, Macs have built in security, it'd be pointless to try

never crashes for me, i've never had a virus since 2002 when i was using windows ME, and no comment

riiiiiight

Well I bought my PC part by part so I got an MX510 which has like 5 buttons and a kind of "alt tab" thing + up and down buttons which could probably be assigned something.

So you bought it separately

no you

Not going to put out that much money

OMG MAC COPIED PC OMG OMG U THIEVES

What?!?! Other way, fool. Look at Vista.

w/e

last time i used a mac in school was an iMAC in sixth grade, im pretty damn sure there was a reason i haven't touched one since

Because you used an old computer?
An old OS?
Most schools are using the same old macs they've had for 10 years because they still work

my pc doesnt crash, unless of course i try to bump my GFX card core past it's limit

Yeah, because I don't use a PC, so I'll take your advice

i clearly won

Lol, ignorance is bliss

WELL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPER TOOLS BUT JUST SO HAPPEN TO DISCUSS WHY MACS SUCK BEFOREHAND

PS's suck, Macs can do everything PCs can do, only better. PCs are obsolete.
Speaking of obsolete, so is the graal editor!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

$1,500 both ways, Mac is a better computer

I'm pretty sure my computer scores much higher than yours on gaming benchmarks and it also costs less.

Doesn't matter, Macs have built in security, it'd be pointless to try

atleast half of your sentence was right (it'd be pointless to try)

So you bought it separately

Separately from what? I put my PC together, i had no mouse to begin with.

What?!?! Other way, fool. Look at Vista.

I'm using your same stupid argument.

Because you used an old computer?
An old OS?
Most schools are using the same old macs they've had for 10 years because they still work

No, because they sucked and so they ended up just going with PC's.

Yeah, because I don't use a PC, so I'll take your advice

You talk about crashing yet mine never crashes.

Lol, ignorance is bliss

u los

PS's suck, Macs can do everything PCs can do, only better. PCs are obsolete.
Speaking of obsolete, so is the graal editor!

LOL thats why the majority of the world uses PC's, thats why university courses are typically using PC's, and thats why you mainly only find windows software and not mac ones. [nerdon]Go crazy when a mac hits 6000 in 3dmark05 *****[/nerdon].

[Darlene159]

Lol, why argue which is better? Different people like/prefer different things.
I personally am quite happy with my Windows XP. Never have had a bit of problems with it.
It's all about personal choice is all.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Lol, why argue which is better? Different people like/prefer different things.
I personally am quite happy with my Windows XP. Never have had a bit of problems with it.
It's all about personal choice is all.

I'm just defending PC and taking some offensive >_>

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Gerami

I'm just defending PC and taking some offensive >_>

You can argue which is better for 50 pages, and it will not change excalibers preference, just like he wont change your preference.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

You can argue which is better for 50 pages, and it will not change excalibers preference, just like he wont change your preference.

Well he says windows/pc's suck and how they are inferior and such when pc/windows is the standard of the world, universities use it, and software is mainly made for windows.

oh and macs can't game for ****.

[Polo]

At my university I use both Windows and OSX, as well as Windows on a frequent basis.

Neither is really better, they are just different, and in the end it all boils down to personal preference. I Personally I find the OSX interface a little unintuitive in places, though I'm sure I'd adjust given time.

Both operating systems are just as susceptible to virus', but as they and other malware are generally written to hit as many computers as possible, they are almost exclusively written for Windows. I've noticed a few recent OSX exploits though, as Apple has started increased their market share. It's just as easy to write malicious software for both platforms. The idea that Windows is virus or spyware prone is generally down to 2 factors - it's market share and the users ignorance. I know plenty of Windows users who think clicking on links for 'FREE EMOTICONS - NOW WITH SOUND!' is a good idea.

My Windows PC has only crashed twice in 3 years, and both of those times we're my own fault (some very unsafe C code, heh). XP actually does a pretty good job of trapping errors.


As an aside, I recently ordered a Macbook (it's in shipping as I type). I didn't make this decision because I think OSX is superior, rather I was able to get a decent discount on the price by being a student which made it the cheapest alternative, and I also have plans to do some cross platform development in the near future.

Now stop arguing. Neither system is better, they just cater for different tastes. That's my 2 pennies.

To bring us back on topic... I might have a go at writing a simple (cross platform) level editor over Christmas, depending how much free time I have.

[zell12]

If there were more people with MACs, there would be more viruses created for them. Right now, it's worth the time it takes to make them to attack PCs; there are a hell of a lot more PCs compared to MACs.


You probably have never built your own PC; you said you owned a Dell. That's the problem right there. You can "customize" your own PC with thousands of different parts, etc. There is something always comming out thats better then the last, so it's also hard to catch up.


From my small expierence with MACs (Only used it for Video Editing in HighSchool), it crashed... a lot. Was using some good software and hardware too. Think it had OSX and ATI cards, one of the more expensive ones.


Anyway, I don't pefer PC over MAC, they are both good for their seperate tasks they excell at. I'd rather use linux over them all, but even still, I use Windows to run games (like this, WoW, CS, etc.)