The Value of a Playerworld

[Thallen]

"The Value of a Playerworld" - Article by Thallen
From about the time when Graal Kingdoms was just beginning as a project, it seems like playerworlds are not as respected and valued by developers as they were before that particular time. Does anyone remember Cynical? Galbadia? If you don't, you're not guilty of anything; those are two servers in specific that suffered a short-lived time on the playerlist, not because of lack of players (neither were victim of that) but because of something else that until this day hasn't been announced.
As time goes on, generally, people expect the quality of gameplay to improve, but really, nothing is wrong with a playerworld with the default tileset and a spar and PK theme. How and why are playerworlds like Cynical (up for a few months maybe) and Galbadia (online for only days, managed by Sebman) just disappearing? How does a whole, mostly-developed world just disappear? I see no excuse for it. People have told me it's the manager's decision, but when a playerworld is placed on the playerlist, it's property of Graal Online. Find a manager for the world if you must, PWA. What I am getting after is that completed playerworlds are a rarity ever since playerworld renting. 95% of the servers that are rented don't even have a chance of making it online, and there are so many, it is so spread out that I fear none will ever even be completed. Archaic was looking great, what went wrong with it? The problem is the people do not understand the value of even a half-developed playerworld, no matter it's style.
People are trying to make something new and never tried before, and there is really not an unlimited number of things possible to develop on Graal. Unholy Nation strives on just events and PKing it seems, and that's the same for N-Pulse. Classic lives on it's community, and surprisingly, those three servers aren't all that different, they all have that classic Graal theme, but they strive. If N-Pulse can get 70 players a day in a level for chat, a spar, and an events house, Babylon could be released right now (and never even taken offline, why did that happen) and be successful. We don't need mindblowing content on a playerworld if it means it will never realistically be completed. All that, I think, most of us want is a little bit of change. Babylon, Mithica, Cynical, Galbadia, Andor, Providence, those weren't level-up or shooter servers, those all were that classic-themed spar and PK playerworld, and they were all pretty successful at some time because (I'm amusing) they were simple enough to complete, so the project remained healthy, and they were released to the players when they should have been...

[Andy0687]

Renegade was also an amazing Example of the stuff you are talking about. I think the manager was Rob, and when we released it he needed to do a mass reset but Stefan wasnt avalible to do it or something like that. So he tried to reset everyone by hand, it didnt work, he got upset or something, and asked it to be shut down.

I could be wrong, and its possible. This is just how I remember it.

I dont think its that playerworlds cant be complete, I dont want to sound like a broken record, but I do believe you were a part of all the conversations that have shown what is wrong with the playerworld system.

Dedicated individuals is all it would take im telling you.

[Spark910]

EDIT: I lied, I've read it!

I have to agree, and remember talking about it before. I wouldn't put them all back online, but certainly some (Andor for example) as that was small as it was, and anything you add would be noticed and welcomed as an update!

What happened to that server that never got online? It had one of the best overworlds I had seen in AGES. End of Ages I think, it was so good looking, with a snowy area in the middle, I loved that

[ViCtOrEhEhEh]

Amen.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by ViCtOrEhEhEh

Amen.

hallelujah!

[VulcanP2P]

Originally Posted by Spark910

EDIT: I lied, I've read it!

I have to agree, and remember talking about it before. I wouldn't put them all back online, but certainly some (Andor for example) as that was small as it was, and anything you add would be noticed and welcomed as an update!

What happened to that server that never got online? It had one of the best overworlds I had seen in AGES. End of Ages I think, it was so good looking, with a snowy area in the middle, I loved that

Versus.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Spark910

I wouldn't put them all back online, but certainly some (Andor for example) as that was small as it was, and anything you add would be noticed and welcomed as an update!

I'd love to see an Andor revival.

Love..

[Sulukra]

The only problem with having a billion spar and PK worlds is that it gets sort of repetitive. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with a few of them, but I would also like to see something new pop up every now and again, instead of just the repetitive RPG servers or PK/Spar.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by VulcanP2P

Versus.

Is that still in production ?

[Thallen]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Is that still in production ?

No. Wan let go of that, unfortunately. It was so great because the levels were crafted by him, probably the best LAT (in my opinion, at least) on Graal.

But does Graal store old, dead PWs that used to be on the list anywhere? Because if someone could get a hold of old Andor, it could be fixed up and just as successful as it was before...

[Moondeath_2]

I agree all the way.

Originally Posted by Thallen

No. Wan let go of that, unfortunately. It was so great because the levels were crafted by him, probably the best LAT (in my opinion, at least) on Graal.

But does Graal store old, dead PWs that used to be on the list anywhere? Because if someone could get a hold of old Andor, it could be fixed up and just as successful as it was before...

Why did wan do that..... the server was going great in my view..

[VulcanP2P]

Originally Posted by Thallen

But does Graal store old, dead PWs that used to be on the list anywhere? Because if someone could get a hold of old Andor, it could be fixed up and just as successful as it was before...

Yes, there are backups. Not sure how long they're kept for and what worlds etc.

Originally Posted by Moondeath_2

Why did wan do that..... the server was going great in my view..

Probably the whole Mykel and Eagle stopping the project thing and then destroying the organization that was there. There was an attempt to work on it afterwards but it never worked out, I think.

[Moondeath_2]

Originally Posted by VulcanP2P

Yes, there are backups. Not sure how long they're kept for and what worlds etc.
Probably the whole Mykel and Eagle stopping the project thing and then destroying the organization that was there. There was an attempt to work on it afterwards but it never worked out, I think.

Aw, Well if it does come back up again I wanna be apart of it.

[Infernix]

I agree, Ive struggled for over a year to keep my last and only server alive on the UC list...always constantly trying to revive it. We have come close but time after time somthing goes wrong. Yet I push on for development til I cant push anymore. Yes I am talking about Babylon...

Now this may seem ****y to many of you but I believe if your developing a server you should and have to be like me. Now Ive been going for over a year trying to get one server developed while Ive seen so many servers start and end...Mainly Im saying you have to really want to complete your work I guess. Dont start if you dont plan on finishing...If you truly value your work, youll value your playerword til the end.


..and maybe instead of making your own servers us developers can come together one day and create 1 great server instead of all going our own ways.

[Moondeath_2]

Originally Posted by Infernix

I agree, Ive struggled for over a year to keep my last and only server alive on the UC list...always constantly trying to revive it. We have come close but time after time somthing goes wrong. Yet I push on for development til I cant push anymore. Yes I am talking about Babylon...

Now this may seem ****y to many of you but I believe if your developing a server you should and have to be like me. Now Ive been going for over a year trying to get one server developed while Ive seen so many servers start and end...Mainly Im saying you have to really want to complete your work I guess. Dont start if you dont plan on finishing...If you truly value your work, youll value your playerword til the end.


..and maybe instead of making your own servers us developers can come together one day and create 1 great server instead of all going our own ways.

Heh well it's hard when you can't find good trustable, and good at what they do staff members these days well alone keep the other ones active i'm close to shutting my playerworld down but i'm having difficulties with my admin account and graal.net account so I can't shut it down yet i've had it i've pushed and pushed on and on and done pretty much every bit of work that is done on the server.

[Tom]

Most developers branch out because they see a successful playerworld and think they can make their own, so then they hire developers branching out even more. And then the graal population is all spread out.

I think Inf's idea with bringing all the developers together would be great.
Maybe a global should actually get the best, seeing as they are global people will want to work for them. Like spark was going to make a server because he was bored not long ago :P

[Moondeath_2]

Tom! You help me with my server I help you with yours how does that sound

[ViCtOrEhEhEh]

Originally Posted by Moondeath_2

Tom! You help me with my server I help you with yours how does that sound

I CAN HELP! :[ J/k I suck.

[WanDaMan]

Thankyou for the nice comments about a lot of my work, I appreciate it.

Well, lets see... Andor - I believe I did an overworld for that too, got fairly good. The overworld were complete but Management issues interupted it's development so hardly nothing got done but the levels. I believe me and my brother both created several versions of the New Andor overworld. Uhm, I remember showing a lot of people the levels for this version of Andor, one individual imparticular being Neo Jenova.

Versus, VS, VS:CONFLICT or what ever I decided to name the project is dead. I blame myself. I guess the situation with Mykel were a foreshadow for the future. Shortly after the Management issues I didn't stop working on it, however; I did recieve a lot of negativity surrounding the whole issue which did result in slow development. Me and a few others decided to work on the project. We failed. Development slowly decreased and all what were being produced were the levels and the graphics (thankyou Darklux and Tom). I had my friend Skyld help with the quality of scripting, but once he had done everything to the current NPC's there were nothing left for him to do because I didn't have any other active NAT's.

A few weeks ago I got an E-mail from Contiga asking if he could re-revive the project. I said yes (I did make it very clear to him that he did not have any rights over any of the material on the server). We made an agreement; he had one week to script the systems I needed to get online (well, on the hosted tab). I gave him the correct tools to do this, I still haven't heard anything about this from him. I guess he gave up too, Contiga I do not blame you.

I have recently read Spark910's thread about him wanting to create a server. I wouldn't mind if you were to use the Overworld I have created, if you decide to use the overworld I do have a few demands. Thallen, since you and I first decided to create this project I'd like you to be in full swing of this project. However, keep to the basic structure we had planned (Jobs, Playerhouses, Events, Shops - ANDOR ( Hopefully you will remember our long and tedious discussions on AIM ), Uhm, I believe I have the documents somewhere if you want to read them if this does actually happen).

Anyway, here is the current overworld for VS:


As for me, myself, I have I guess quit Graal. Uhm, I check back to the forums on frequent occasions but I can't say that I'm regretting my decision .

[Tom]

If your making a server with Wan's overworld, i would defernately offer my skills towards it. I was helping Wan with VS on his second attempt and i really dont want to see it wasted. Its a sexually awesome OW with a touch of wan.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Thankyou for the nice comments about a lot of my work, I appreciate it.

Well, lets see... Andor - I believe I did an overworld for that too, got fairly good. The overworld were complete but Management issues interupted it's development so hardly nothing got done but the levels. I believe me and my brother both created several versions of the New Andor overworld. Uhm, I remember showing a lot of people the levels for this version of Andor, one individual imparticular being Neo Jenova.

Versus, VS, VS:CONFLICT or what ever I decided to name the project is dead. I blame myself. I guess the situation with Mykel were a foreshadow for the future. Shortly after the Management issues I didn't stop working on it, however; I did recieve a lot of negativity surrounding the whole issue which did result in slow development. Me and a few others decided to work on the project. We failed. Development slowly decreased and all what were being produced were the levels and the graphics (thankyou Darklux and Tom). I had my friend Skyld help with the quality of scripting, but once he had done everything to the current NPC's there were nothing left for him to do because I didn't have any other active NAT's.

A few weeks ago I got an E-mail from Contiga asking if he could re-revive the project. I said yes (I did make it very clear to him that he did not have any rights over any of the material on the server). We made an agreement; he had one week to script the systems I needed to get online (well, on the hosted tab). I gave him the correct tools to do this, I still haven't heard anything about this from him. I guess he gave up too, Contiga I do not blame you.

I have recently read Spark910's thread about him wanting to create a server. I wouldn't mind if you were to use the Overworld I have created, if you decide to use the overworld I do have a few demands. Thallen, since you and I first decided to create this project I'd like you to be in full swing of this project. However, keep to the basic structure we had planned (Jobs, Playerhouses, Events, Shops - ANDOR ( Hopefully you will remember our long and tedious discussions on AIM ), Uhm, I believe I have the documents somewhere if you want to read them if this does actually happen).

Anyway, here is the current overworld for VS:


As for me, myself, I have I guess quit Graal. Uhm, I check back to the forums on frequent occasions but I can't say that I'm regretting my decision .

I can help you script it. It shouldn't be too hard

[Spark910]

That is such a hot overworld

[Thallen]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Thankyou for the nice comments about a lot of my work, I appreciate it.

Well, lets see... Andor - I believe I did an overworld for that too, got fairly good. The overworld were complete but Management issues interupted it's development so hardly nothing got done but the levels. I believe me and my brother both created several versions of the New Andor overworld. Uhm, I remember showing a lot of people the levels for this version of Andor, one individual imparticular being Neo Jenova.

Versus, VS, VS:CONFLICT or what ever I decided to name the project is dead. I blame myself. I guess the situation with Mykel were a foreshadow for the future. Shortly after the Management issues I didn't stop working on it, however; I did recieve a lot of negativity surrounding the whole issue which did result in slow development. Me and a few others decided to work on the project. We failed. Development slowly decreased and all what were being produced were the levels and the graphics (thankyou Darklux and Tom). I had my friend Skyld help with the quality of scripting, but once he had done everything to the current NPC's there were nothing left for him to do because I didn't have any other active NAT's.

A few weeks ago I got an E-mail from Contiga asking if he could re-revive the project. I said yes (I did make it very clear to him that he did not have any rights over any of the material on the server). We made an agreement; he had one week to script the systems I needed to get online (well, on the hosted tab). I gave him the correct tools to do this, I still haven't heard anything about this from him. I guess he gave up too, Contiga I do not blame you.

I have recently read Spark910's thread about him wanting to create a server. I wouldn't mind if you were to use the Overworld I have created, if you decide to use the overworld I do have a few demands. Thallen, since you and I first decided to create this project I'd like you to be in full swing of this project. However, keep to the basic structure we had planned (Jobs, Playerhouses, Events, Shops - ANDOR ( Hopefully you will remember our long and tedious discussions on AIM ), Uhm, I believe I have the documents somewhere if you want to read them if this does actually happen).

Anyway, here is the current overworld for VS:


As for me, myself, I have I guess quit Graal. Uhm, I check back to the forums on frequent occasions but I can't say that I'm regretting my decision .

I miss you a lot, Wan. We had lots of really good ideas for Versus, and it seems like it was all coming together pretty good though we weren't online enough to at the same time to keep each other completely updated about the project. Why did you quit Graal though? No one was as good as making levels as you. Just look at your overworld, it's nearly complete, and I'm trying to talk Spark into maybe giving me the Andor levels, so with that you and I could really get a whole lot of ideas or perhaps even edit some content. If by putting me in 'full swing' of the project, you are offering to give Versus to me to try and bring it back again, that's really, really nice, but to manage a server you have to at least be able to develop in one of the three major areas(levels, scripting, and graphics) and all I'm really good for is productive ideas to keep players playing. I don't think I could do it, as much as I really want to.


And as a side note, HoudiniMan is on Playerworld Inspection tag on Endora right now. Hopefully something is going on there.

[Moondeath_2]

Originally Posted by ViCtOrEhEhEh

I CAN HELP! :[ J/k I suck.

Rawr then go learn some tallent! Before I kill my poor server it's gotten boring for me even mainly because it lacks staff and I sit there alone with no one to talk to or do.

[Luda]

i can fling boogers at little kids,therefor i own
LUDA-2 YOU GUYS-0!

[googleman]

Originally Posted by Thallen

How and why are playerworlds like Cynical (up for a few months maybe) and Galbadia (online for only days, managed by Sebman) just disappearing?

They get shut down because they are Classic servers that are UC. I just don't want to pay for Cynical because all the devs had classic accounts and most of them can't buy VIP + I'm not going to play on it anyhow..

We had something good going for a while, but then a person messes up the overworld and the graphics folder gets deleted. We have a new OW on that backup, but it's not like the original Cynical at all. (If that's what you are looking for.)

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Thallen

I miss you a lot, Wan. We had lots of really good ideas for Versus, and it seems like it was all coming together pretty good though we weren't online enough to at the same time to keep each other completely updated about the project.

Yeah, it was fun .

Originally Posted by Thallen

Why did you quit Graal though? No one was as good as making levels as you. Just look at your overworld, it's nearly complete.

Well, I've always said VS were my last project. Since that died I had nothing left to keep me.

As for that LAT's, well there is also quite a lot of new + old talent comin' to the playing field. For example, Howard; the owner of Exodus. His server is awesome, I'm surprised it's not online! Shadowless, last I heard he were still active within' the community. He has always been better than me at level making; Graal's lucky to have someone like him. Crono, always will be the modern LAT; he can adapt to any style. His work on Valikorlia has amazed and inspired me for a lot of the work I did on VS!

The overworld, yeah it is almost complete. It always happens though; I almost complete an overworld and it dies To be honest I can't be bothered to make another overworld to know that nothing will prevail from it

Originally Posted by Thallen

I'm trying to talk Spark into maybe giving me the Andor levels, so with that you and I could really get a whole lot of ideas or perhaps even edit some content.

I'm sorry, like I said in the previous post. I'm finished with Graal. I still have a lot of the content on my computer about what we talked about if that's any help.

Originally Posted by Thallen

If by putting me in 'full swing' of the project, you are offering to give Versus to me to try and bring it back again, that's really, really nice, but to manage a server you have to at least be able to develop in one of the three major areas(levels, scripting, and graphics) and all I'm really good for is productive ideas to keep players playing. I don't think I could do it, as much as I really want to..

Yes, in my opinion you'd be the perfect candidate for the position. You don't have to be skilled at all to be a successful manager; Tifa, Doomsday; she didn't know any type of development when she were appointed manager. Okilian, UN; he didn't know any development when he were appointed manager. There is probably a lot more than those two. Anyway, you have got skills; the idea's we both developed

Originally Posted by Thallen

And as a side note, HoudiniMan is on Playerworld Inspection tag on Endora right now. Hopefully something is going on there.

The overworld I planned for Endora is amazing, hopefully they are still using what I set them out to do! Goodluck


If you are wanting to use my work, contact me. My brother still plays Graal so message him. His account is 'xAndrewx', he can be found on Era.

[jake13jake]

I don't like Wan's cliffing style much, but then again, to me, there is only one correct way to tile cliffs. Wan's opinion of that is that there are many correct way to tile cliffs. Just a difference of opinion. The level generator probably sucks the most with cliffing.

The playerworld market on Graal has a lot of competition. The demand for a playerworld is high, and the demand for developers on a playerworld is even higher. The players that purchase worlds aren't paying much attention to the demand for quality developers. Most of the developers they hire are either paid, underqualified, or both. It's their demand for their own playerworld and with such a high demand for playerworlds the demand for developers is much greater than the supply of qualified developers (called a shortage). I'm very serious when I say this. I'm the only scripter on the Classic LAT, so I have to be very very very modular and abstract in design such that the tilers don't have a hard time using these scripts, and so that I can very easily create scripts based off of others and be able to easily modify them.

Being listed on the Classic tab, I'd say, is for the smart people who verify their access to qualified developers and don't become overwhelmed to the point that the playerworld becomes an abandoned project.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Being listed on the Classic tab, I'd say, is for the smart people who verify their access to qualified developers and don't become overwhelmed to the point that the playerworld becomes an abandoned project.

That's kinda true, the only way to stop this is to introduce something new each week. It's rather hard to keep the Era playercount high, as there is no ''drive'' to keep the players coming back. We've only got one type of leveling system and that is the mining system. We had the gym but that changed.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

That's kinda true, the only way to stop this is to introduce something new each week. It's rather hard to keep the Era playercount high, as there is no ''drive'' to keep the players coming back. We've only got one type of leveling system and that is the mining system. We had the gym but that changed.

Yea, that's why I choose to reserve some of the finished projects on Classic. Ex. I had Hover Boots done when the Destiny Boot Shop went up, but I chose to give them as a prize to the #1 ranks for sparring and PKing for April, and I'll be publically releasing them one week later on the ninth. By then I can probably have the castle quest done for the next week or so (now that I've gotten all the systems work done that was required for it)... after that though... ugh........ The gnome caves still need a lot of work, but if Jub finishes his graphics for the Aeria Water Serpent, we can release the shovel sidequest earlier than that.

I feel like making a Stone Herb NPC that emits a cloud of smoke and turns you into an invincible stone for a few seconds.

[PrinceDark]

Originally Posted by Spark910

What happened to that server that never got online? It had one of the best overworlds I had seen in AGES. End of Ages I think, it was so good looking, with a snowy area in the middle, I loved that

Me and ETD lost interest and pretty much quit playing/developing for graal, Zerxus our main levels guy got busy and dissappeared too. Dunno what happened to him. I spoke with Eric before we departed and left all the content to N-Pulse.

[Eagle]

I might be at fault for the second downfall of Versus. I got caught up with things, and sort of dissappeared. Sorry everyone, mainly Wan. You're a great guy, and an awesome developer.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Thallen

If N-Pulse can get 70 players a day in a level for chat, a spar, and an events house, Babylon could be released right now (and never even taken offline, why did that happen) and be successful. We don't need mindblowing content on a playerworld if it means it will never realistically be completed.

In theory...

But if you slap up 4-5 classic style worlds, they will get maybe 10 players on average tops. Different servers ARE needed. You can't just make a classic world with "awesome" levels and nothing new to offer, and expect it to get 70 players on average. The current classic servers have high playercounts because they've built a community. When most people log on and look at the classic list, they go to one of the servers with the most players. That's really all there is to it.

I mentioned to Stefan a long time ago that he should set up something like either he makes it so the playerworld list is randomly shuffled, not sorted by number of players... or that he makes some sort of "graal world map" that displays all of the servers on the map as icons, all on the screen at once. Then you just click on the icon to join. It wouldn't show the playercount unless maybe when you mouse over it or something.

Basically the only way you're going to pull players away from the high playercount servers is to either make a new playerworld with lots of interesting stuff, or make it so it doesn't sort the high playercount servers to the top of the list.

[Thallen]

Originally Posted by konidias

In theory...

But if you slap up 4-5 classic style worlds, they will get maybe 10 players on average tops. Different servers ARE needed. You can't just make a classic world with "awesome" levels and nothing new to offer, and expect it to get 70 players on average. The current classic servers have high playercounts because they've built a community. When most people log on and look at the classic list, they go to one of the servers with the most players. That's really all there is to it.

I mentioned to Stefan a long time ago that he should set up something like either he makes it so the playerworld list is randomly shuffled, not sorted by number of players... or that he makes some sort of "graal world map" that displays all of the servers on the map as icons, all on the screen at once. Then you just click on the icon to join. It wouldn't show the playercount unless maybe when you mouse over it or something.

Basically the only way you're going to pull players away from the high playercount servers is to either make a new playerworld with lots of interesting stuff, or make it so it doesn't sort the high playercount servers to the top of the list.

And I realize all of that, it's only that if you jump from hosted world to hosted world, you'll see that the minority happen to be the true "classic" worlds. Things have seem to swung more towards guns and level-up servers, in which less than a half-dozen playerworlds of that kind have touched the Classic list. Unholy Nation, Era, and Maloria have built a strong community, and I can understand that... well, less in UN's case, because Maloria is a level-up server and Era is a gun server. They are servers with an in-game economy. If we have 3, maybe even 2, or more playerworlds of that style, the playercount will be split and they'll ultimately lose their economy-style play and population altogether. Graal is meant to be simple, not saying that servers like Maloria and Era aren't welcome, but we shouldn't look for or create a bundle of them.

The only server that has been completely consistant in it's playercount is Unholy Nation. Maloria and Era have at time sagged behind, so it's very possible that another server could pop up and take over, classic, gun, or level-up, whatever it may be.
Though I really hope it's classic...

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by konidias

I mentioned to Stefan a long time ago that he should set up something like either he makes it so the playerworld list is randomly shuffled, not sorted by number of players... or that he makes some sort of "graal world map" that displays all of the servers on the map as icons, all on the screen at once. Then you just click on the icon to join. It wouldn't show the playercount unless maybe when you mouse over it or something.

Basically the only way you're going to pull players away from the high playercount servers is to either make a new playerworld with lots of interesting stuff, or make it so it doesn't sort the high playercount servers to the top of the list.

I think Stefan should list the playerworlds in alphabetical order, in each catagory, and only have a total Graal count of players. Meaning, like at the top of the server list, have the total amount that is on Graal.
Members would have to sign on the PW in order to see how many people are on the server.

Your world map idea sounds cool though.

[CidNight1142]

I like that world map idea alot, would promote 'unity' between the servers.