It is not like there is not a lot of material on the web.

Last I checked Win98 does not run on PPC either.

Yeah, okay, I was too harsh there. Sorry. Also I meant attention as in Stefan-spending-time-to-support-you-mac-guys-instead-of-writing-Graal3d or something, not the "hey look at me" kind.

I am kind of with the "you too can download the Windows client so you get the same service" crowd, there.

Agreed.

See my above posts with the lots of illegal links before a moderator sees them. You do not get skills for free, you need to earn them by forsakening your social life, spending nights in front of API references and tutorials written by people from Japan for a three-year old version of the toolkit and chastising yourself using command line tools instead of appropriate GUI application.

:frown:

I am refering to how you guys decide to not support all the fine pre-existing gui toolkits and frameworks and whatever and just roll your own and expect everybody else to port applications over, even though your platform is closed and proprietary and I could not afford a Mac to develop on if I wanted to. I mean, we made this fun cross-platform text editor and the Mac people just whined about it not using their native toolkit.

It is one thing if you feel superior because you have a bunch of great applications because apparently Apple is actually capable of designing useful software, but being all equal-rights is a bit exaggerating.

Are you personally insulted if I make fun of your computer?

Nah, I'm not really a cult of apple type. I like my computer, but I have no disillusions that its some amazing machine with super powers. I'd say I like macs better than PCs, but that might just be because it's what I'm used to now. I guess I just don't have the desire to discard my social and academic life in order to create a mac development set, however I will shake the hands of the man (or woman) that does.

I also tend to agree that the mac development tools should not be the first priority of Stefan. However, I also don't think they should be dead last. Until then, it would be nice if they put it on the download page that the mac version has no port. They could say they're working on it, maybe?

But everybody knows that the website is hilariously useless and out of date. :frown:

Hilarious was a good word for it. Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, I go and read about the newest news on GK....from 2003!

As a coder, I look at systems for what they are, not for what they look like. Take Maloria for example (v2 at least, since I know little about v3 except that it will have eye candy). Maloria has some great graphic artists on the team, and v2 contained a lot of eye candy, but when it came down to the core systems, Maloria had some systems made by people that quit ages ago, thus, not being up-to-date with certain commands and so forth. Enable GS2 on v2, and most systems will cease to function correctly/entirely.


You can't judge a book by its cover, no matter how beautiful it may seem.


What matters is how it works, not so much how it looks, though, nice graphics are always a plus, but should never be priority over the script itself.

As a coder, you are a pessimistic meanie.

So when you'd, for example, design a security system, you wouldn't be pessimistic by looking at every possible way that your system could fail/be bypassed in order to improve it?


Sometimes being pessimistic isn't a bad thing.

I don't see how you can be pessimistic about this level editor. The current one is quite basic, and this one pretty much has it's basics plus more. =o

Because I havn't tried it yet?


It could be so complex to the point where it's uncomfortable to use and so forth. Or it could be so simple that it's not really worth using it.


Nothing wrong with a beta testing version.

o_o gambet it's a graal level editor

how could it possibly be complex

Doesn't the level editor basically just read and write information to and from a text file?

You can make a rubberband complex :/

I think so but I'm no programmer so I'm not sure.

ur complx :[[

I just would not go and point at other people's security systems and announce that they probably suck.

That is also what the gserver does.

I'm not saying that it sucks, I havn't even tried it out yet.


And if you could find flaws in someone elses security system, why wouldn't you tell them?

Really, we pay the same for service, we should get the same out of it. I'm not upgrading (which is a good amount of money, since I also own a server) until something is done. No way I'm paying that much just to sit on it.
Clicking those links instantly downloaded it to my brain!
Like I read my 800 some page C++ book in an instant!
:rolleyes:

NOBODY wants Win 98
My point is; the company actually upgraded their services; they didn't make you do it.
You'd be mad if they said it'd have email, and you had to code it yourself...and learn the code for it first.
Even PC users are getting ripped off with outdated editors.

Okay. I am selling my actual computer and want to play Graal on my programmable calculator. I demand dev tools right this minute since I pay the same amount for the service!

http://londeroth.org/~ben/sa/emot-siren.gif COMPETENCE REQUIRES EFFORT http://londeroth.org/~ben/sa/emot-siren.gif

You should try reading sometimes, it is fun.

No one is making you do anything either, but you still cannot just randomly demand other people to do it.

Considering Stefan himself still uses it, it cannot be too bad, eh?

It can actually get very complex. The graphics subsystem Maniaman is using (GDI+) doesn't provide everything you'd need to create a good editor. There aren't any built-in tools for making "layered" graphics, for instance, and a level editor involves many layers; tiles, images, selection rectangles are 3 examples.

NTFS is also very slow when accessing files due to security permissions, and that presents a serious problem when you are looking at thousands of files like you find in your Graal folder; Stefan had to make the filename cache to fix that problem.

GDI+ also isn't very friendly when you are editing huge images. A Graal level is 1024x1024 pixels, which caused serious problems Maniaman had to fix.

Maniaman also wants to interpret changeimgcolors/zoom/etc, which means he has to write some kind of script interpreter.

Those are just some small examples, but it all adds up. A level editor is more complex than you'd think. That said, I've played with some early builds of his level editor and works pretty decently aside from some rough edges (strange crash cases, code efficiency, etc).

i was refering to useability

The code could make people cry :)

Planning on fixing a lot of the exceptions and stuff before I start handing out the alpha version. That is easier said then done though.

Were you told there was a version for your calculator?
Are there a lot of people this would benefit?
Nope
I'll be getting a book on Carbon gui development. I also have all the pages from Mac bookmarked. I've read them over a bit. I don't liek reading online much. The book will be nice.
Demand them to provide a service they claim to have?
They mislead the customer, there's demand for it, and a simple upgrade couldn't hurt. Even for the PC version.
How can you be so sure?

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...tons/quote.gif

Please.

Done.

This started just asking for an update to the level editor.
Hey, maybe if they do, we can get the old one on Macs! :p

Honestly, do you really think it is unreasonable that the mac users of graalonline request Stefan extends development tools to us? We're not demanding anything. We're expecting this company to provide promised services to their paying customers.

It's in their best financial interest, honestly. I have no desire to reupgrade to gold unless I have the ability to develop, that's $40 a year. Cali isn't going to upgrade to gold, VIP or his server until he can develop. That's around $160 right there. So that's $200 poorer, just from two customers.

And I don't mean that I'm having some sort of disgruntled customer strike thing either, there really is simply no point whatsoever to upgrade if I can't develop. I've lost interest in GK and I never had interest in Zone. I think Cali is in the same boat. I know that he complains about alot, but I think he has a fair point on this one.

what you guys dont understand is that online editing is the way of the future!

even though i disagree with what i just said

Signature

Haha I'm not a fan of online editing. But that's due to my personal reasons.

You win a free kitten pic!
http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/cats_files/RAM.jpg

Now stop being such a damned prick.

Un-amusing, Cid.

http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/cats_files/trash.jpg

I see a Mac power adapter :D

Waaa, waaa, Macs are better but is still not sufficient in as much as a Windows so I'm going to complain about my lack of development. waaaa

...
You really are retarded...

the irony...is killing me...

waaaaa, Macs are better, but give us stuff so we can at least be equal to Windows. waaaaaa

I'm sorry....what?

If I've interpreted that into English correctly, you are claiming that computers are not defined by the computer itself, but by the software manufacturers biases? Ok, its a fair argument. However, times are changing, and I feel very soon your argument will become null. Graal is one of the few final bastions of mac software development segregation.

I'm honestly biased because I have no desire for a gaming rig. I need a work station. I find macs are better workstations. So the fact that 'gaming software' is not always created equally for mac doesn't bother me in the least.

But maybe someday (after the learning English thing), you can be a big boy and need a workstation as well!

What? No it's not.

I don't know, maybe it just is to me.

Everything I need has a mac version except graal dev tools. But then again, as I said earlier, I'm not a big computer gamer.