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  #76  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:02 PM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK View Post
What prevents them from working together, without a underpowered staff division, that is largely been getting negative feedback? You need to identify and knead out those issues before you can stick all the devs together and expect anything meaningful to come out of it.
External influences can be a good motivating factor. The current system is not helping bring developers together onto the same page.
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See the GST, it had 3-4 extremely talented devs on it for months, and not a damn thing came out of it, what has changed now for the better? Nothing, things have gone downhill, not up.
I'm tired of repeating myself. I already said that for myself it was going take a contribution (or fifty) from Stefan to change anything, at least in my case. I'm well aware of the current state of Graal.

Ideally Stefan would be in contact with this team often and would have a role in identifying new features and changes to Graal.

Edit: A good number of the more talented developers have the power of reputation, which is why I don't think global RC is necessary. The team would not be underpowered if the right people are part of it.
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  #77  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:05 PM
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Honestly, I don't even think Stefan himself has the control over things to work out the issues, sure he could provide developers more tools/documentation/assistance. However, the the decisions about the state of how the game is ran(server rentals, gold pricing, trial restrictions considering the state of the game as it is), is controlled by Unixmad, how is a lot harder to convince, get in contact with, etc.
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  #78  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:07 PM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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Honestly, I don't even think Stefan himself has the control over things to work out the issues, sure he could provide developers more tools/documentation/assistance. However, the the decisions about the state of how the game is ran(server rentals, gold pricing, trial restrictions considering the state of the game as it is), is controlled by Unixmad, how is a lot harder to convince, get in contact with, etc.
Those decisions that unixmad handles are not important to me. What I want are up-to-date development tools and features that would allow me to create what I want. These things can only be provided by Stefan.
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  #79  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:10 PM
DarkCloud_PK DarkCloud_PK is offline
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Those decisions that unixmad handles are not important to me. What I want are up-to-date development tools and features that would allow me to create what I want. These things can only be provided by Stefan.
What you want, isn't exactly very significant to the game as a whole.
You can add all the requested functions, documentation, and modifications or enhancements to GS2, that you want, and it still won't significantly change a damn thing. Issues are way way beyond the griping of the unfulfilled desires of the developers that exist now.
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  #80  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:14 PM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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What you want, isn't exactly very significant to the game as a whole.
You can add all the requested functions, documentation, and modifications or enhancements to GS2, that you want, and it still won't significantly change a damn thing. Issues are way way beyond the griping of the unfulfilled desires of the developers that exist now.
First, I am not talking about enhancements specific to GS2.

Second, the grand majority of content on Graal was created by players using the available tools to do what they enjoy, create their own game. Is it not logical to include that if these tools are improved and more features are added to Graal that can be taken advantage of by aspiring scripters, level designers, and graphic artists, that they would be more inspired to create content? This would be assisted by this Global Development Team creating demos using various Graal features.
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  #81  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:17 PM
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None of that matters in the grand scheme of things, you need to look at the bigger picture, beyond what individual developers agree upon and desire. It doesn't change anything, not the egos, the growing seperation of development.
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  #82  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:18 PM
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None of that matters in the grand scheme of things, you need to look at the bigger picture, beyond what individual developers agree upon and desire. It doesn't change anything, not the egos, the growing seperation of development.
Then explain your reasoning and how the situation can be improved instead of simply being a naysayer.
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  #83  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:23 PM
DarkCloud_PK DarkCloud_PK is offline
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Then explain your reasoning and how the situation can be improved instead of simply being a naysayer.
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They're scattered because the system in place now, for how development works, allows them to scatter themselves to work on projects that interest them, either by heading up their own server, or working for an existing one where they have significant say in what goes on(most scripters on servers have significantly bolstered RC and folder rights beyond what they need to do their job, and sometimes unneeded authority aswell).

Talented developers aren't scattered by chance, longing for finding each other and working as one cohesive group, its because they've become so rare and desired, that a lot of them have a huge ego, and egos don't work well in a group setting. So they scattered more and more throughout the years What will magically make them finally collaborate in a group to do something meaningful, without some drastic changes being made?
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Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK View Post
What prevents them from working together, without a underpowered staff division, that is largely been getting negative feedback? You need to identify and knead out those issues before you can stick all the devs together and expect anything meaningful to come out of it.


edit: the solutions have been posted all over the place on these forums, it isn't like noone has a clue.
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  #84  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:37 PM
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We are not taking talented people and asking them to do non development tasks.
No, but it is part of the mentality of global staff or at least someone with the perception of extra responsibility. If someone has to do something else with their spare time, clearly it will have some affect on their development time. This may not be too noticable or it could be really negative. Your own comment demonstrates this mentality/effect of additional responsibility:

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Its in response to many of the complaints we see on the forums about how there is a lack of participation by the global community in improving the overall quality of Graal itself
I am not too up-to-date with Graal, but the general trend over time with promotional and additional responsibility appears to be the final destination of responding to support tickets on Graal Support Centre. To do this to a good enough standard, there is generally very little time for other Graal activities such as development.

I still strongly suggest that the title will suggest something it is not. Perhaps consider a list of people who are good at what they do who can be added to a list and will be willing to either (a) answer various development questions perhaps via the support centre; (b) look at or fix various development material; and (c) both a + b.

Those who wish to develop for the general community are free to do so already.
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  #85  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:44 PM
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i understand where DarkCloud_PK's coming from since it's essentially the same thing i first posted in this thread - a global team that's purpose is to help out other aspiring developers is nice in conception, but impractical. if they aren't even going to receive gold or a global RC then a bunch of developers won't join, and the ones that do will be few and far between making the work for this team spread thin

what i originally thought of when i saw the team's title was that this was finally going to be a new server that was going to be created by this team as assembled by the globals. bringing developers together under one roof to create a server, with the globals there to take charge and direction for the server and keep everyone in a atmosphere of rapture, something awesome could come out of a project like that, and a team like that
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  #86  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:01 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

No response needed.
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  #87  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:13 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

No response needed.
Well the intentions behind it are good, it's just that it would be better if it worked more like the old GST/GGT teams did. But this time actually have active teams for each of the major development positions (LAT, NAT, and GAT) that contribute to the Classic servers.
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  #88  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:24 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

No response needed.
Because people don't understand that Stefan doesn't give a crap about their uber development skills and won't give them development tools with which they can change graal.
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  #89  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:36 PM
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Good idea! I think this will really benefit Graal as a whole and help bring new players to Graal.
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  #90  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:46 PM
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Well the intentions behind it are good, it's just that it would be better if it worked more like the old GST/GGT teams did. But this time actually have active teams for each of the major development positions (LAT, NAT, and GAT) that contribute to the Classic servers.
Which brings us back to the point that some new team with a clever guild tag is not needed to perform commonsense actions like collective teamwork. Sadly, theft and corruption are some of the largest issues that prevent any abundance of cross-server cooperation and that's just a shame.
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