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Old 01-30-2011, 05:30 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Pricing Changes - Why wait for v6?

I think we've all read in a few different threads that the way the pricing system works on Graal is to be changed when v6 is released. If it is true, and the way the pricing is done on Graal is going to be changed, why wait?

It's currently 10.16am (EST) and it's a Sunday; not really a time you expect to see high traffic on Graal. However, there's currently 483 players on Era iPhone and 1226 players on Classic iPhone. If you compare that to who is currently online on the PC version (58 on Maloria, 54 on Zodiac, 33 on Era, 11 on Unholy Nation) the difference (1709:156) is massive, or at least for Graal anyway. The two iPhone servers have 11x more players than the four PC servers, why isn't this being taken advantage of (lol) in a way that's positive to the PC community?

I've spoken to a lot of the iPhone players, a few didn't even realize there was a PC version, but a lot of them are aware. If you ask them why they don't play they'll say it's too expensive and responses like, "$40 for playing the same game with fewer people?" are not uncommon. I really don't blame them either, I don't pay for this, and I'd bet it's the same for like 90% of the people I know on Graal. Apparently this has been realized, but if you're going to be attempting to fix this, why wait for v6 to come out? I'm pretty sure the issues that would be addressed with a change like this are not connected to the client itself.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:28 PM
Imperialistic Imperialistic is offline
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I agree with everything Rufus just mentioned ;

I recently bought an iPod Touch and started playing Classic iPhone and realized that hardly anybody knows about the PC version of GraalOnline, and even if they were to explore upon it they would be chased off from the high prices. I noticed the Classic iPhone prices and I believe everything that you could've purchased was under 5 dollars. Not only is Classic iPhone free to play but is also crowded with tons of players, why couldn't this concept be used on GraalOnline the PC edition?
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:12 PM
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Opening Graal up freely with the existing gelat system would not work. The gelat system would need to be modified or removed to allow for microtransactions. The existing gelat system still requires discouraging lump-sum payments for gelats, which has a similar effect to subscriptions.

At the heart of microtransactions is the impulsive minimal one-click purchase system, which iTunes makes very easy on the iPhone, but Eurocenter isn't capable of that. Before the payments system is revised Graal needs a better developer pool - either more developers or more organization within the existing developer group towards unified projects. Without better developers new players would quickly tire of the existing content. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.

It's very important that we recognize the differences in audiences as well. iPhone users do not directly compare to Graal PC users; the two platforms are very different. Graal Online may be able to attract a much broader audience on the iPhone than possible on the PC - radically modifying the payment system won't magically flip the switch.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:15 PM
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give developers the opportunity to receive a portion of cash-shop sales on the servers that they create while you're at it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:20 PM
Fulg0reSama Fulg0reSama is offline
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I don't think the gelat system would work properly with microtransactions. You would still have to purchase lump-sum gelat packages, which would have a similar effect to subscription (discourage purchases). Opening Graal up freely, with the existing gelat system, would not work.

iPhone works nicely because microtransactions are tied directly into iTunes, it's basically one-click shopping. Eurocenter couldn't do that on Graal PC. Additionally, what Graal Online needs is a better developer pool or at the very least to focus the existing developer group on specific projects. If you open up Graal with price adjustments I'm not sure it would bring in any new developers - but I'm quite sure the existing content wouldn't keep new customers satisfied long. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.
Really..? You aren't sure that getting new players to come by a cheaper price wouldn't bring new developers? I guess we need to explain the possible domino effect if we were to do so, If you do absolutely nothing to perk their interest at all, then you won't get anyone to come by of course. Let me explain how in obvious business logic.

If a customer comes up to your store and they look around and take a second to think "What is all of this?". In order to perk their interest; someone nice and accommodating needs to come up to the customer and say "Hello, can I help you?" and from there you need to keep them hooked with that attitude and point out the good in everything that you can instead of constant irritation. I agree that Cyberjourners/Eurocenter or whoever they go by persona wise has made major screw-ups, but are we really any better for not continuing to try to keep them with nice behavior? I know I may sound like I'm kissing the ass of those who've wrong players for years but it's just it's not just them 100%.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama View Post
Really..? You aren't sure that getting new players to come by a cheaper price wouldn't bring new developers? I guess we need to explain the possible domino effect if we were to do so, If you do absolutely nothing to perk their interest at all, then you won't get anyone to come by of course. Let me explain how in obvious business logic.

If a customer comes up to your store and they look around and take a second to think "What is all of this?". In order to perk their interest; someone nice and accommodating needs to come up to the customer and say "Hello, can I help you?" and from there you need to keep them hooked with that attitude and point out the good in everything that you can instead of constant irritation. I agree that Cyberjourners/Eurocenter or whoever they go by persona wise has made major screw-ups, but are we really any better for not continuing to try to keep them with nice behavior? I know I may sound like I'm kissing the ass of those who've wrong players for years but it's just it's not just them 100%.
I have greatly modified my post since your initial response. It should clarify any confusion.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Opening Graal up freely, with the existing gelat system, would not work. The gelat system would need to be modified or removed to allow for microtransactions. The existing gelat system would still require discouraging lump-sum payments for gelats, which has a similar effect to subscriptions.

The heart of microtransactions is the impulsive one-click purchase system, which iTunes makes very easy on the iPhone, but Eurocenter isn't capable of that. Graal Online needs a better developer pool or at the very least better focus on organized projects within the existing developer group. If Graal is opened up with price adjustments I'm not sure it would bring in any new developers - but I'm quite sure the existing content wouldn't keep new customers satisfied long. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.
The microtransactions on the iPhone are gelat packs, which is what we have on here. The only difference is that gelats on there is the main currency, and something you can earn yourself if you want to put time into it. That (along with the charging of subscriptions on here) is the only thing that differentiates PC Graal to iPod Graal. I don't see how they are incapable of it, they do it already. I can understand that there is not enough content (at current) to charge for on here. However, the servers do have developers, and on servers such as Zodiac, Era, they have introduced things to a cash shop. With a little bit of imagination and work, I expect developers can easily integrate microtransactions into their respective servers.

The problem is going to arise sooner or later, why wait until v6 is out to address it? Why keep the inconsistent payments (subscription on all servers, microtransactions offered on some for free playing) and methods (observer mode being removed from a select few servers, etc) instead of introducing something that is both consistent and clearly more appealing?
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:37 PM
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I have greatly modified my post since your initial response. It should clarify any confusion.
I see, I take back my aggressive open and stand by the comment of it's not just their fault for having a lack of developer pool.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
The microtransactions on the iPhone are gelat packs, which is what we have on here. The only difference is that gelats on there is the main currency, and something you can earn yourself if you want to put time into it. That (along with the charging of subscriptions on here) is the only thing that differentiates PC Graal to iPod Graal. I don't see how they are incapable of it, they do it already.
I strongly support microtransactions, I've been trying to get a shop API on Graal (for all servers to use) for the last two years. The initial goal was a GK Gelat shop. However, I don't think the existing system compares to iPhone's payment system - it's so slick that it leaves little room for second-thoughts. If Graal Online can do it, it'll work (although my concern then becomes their pricing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
The problem is going to arise sooner or later, why wait until v6 is out to address it? Why keep the inconsistent payments (subscription on all servers, microtransactions offered on some for free playing) and methods (observer mode being removed from a select few servers, etc) instead of introducing something that is both consistent and clearly more appealing?
It could be started immediately, but I'm not sure it will make any real difference until the developer problems are sorted. One of the big advantages Graal has on iPhone is the unified app store... it's very easy to find Graal. It's not so easy on the PC platform.
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I see, I take back my aggressive open and stand by the comment of it's not just their fault for having a lack of developer pool.
I'm not worried whose fault it is - it's a problem that will need to be fixed regardless.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:43 PM
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Just gonna inject an idea that's been discussed before(Somewhat to death, Constantly fought about lag factors.)


Intergrate PC and iPhone together, I mean staff on there can get on for developmental purposes which was a good idea but we could seriously push the envelope by making it popular for kids and this is most likely what they'd think "Hey, I can play graal after I get off the bus? Cooooooooool!" and let anyone who knows how to make a dollar take it over from there and some advertisement would make this foolproof.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:20 PM
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It's not all that uncommon iPhone users ask me for my opinion on whether purchasing a Gold subscription is worthwhile and upon telling them that the system may soon be changed to something for the most part cheaper and more similar to that of iPhone most say they have decided to hold out.

There may not be a high amount of decent content or active Developers currently but you would expect this to improve after a decrease in prices (and likely an increase in playercount) as opposed to before, the development climate isn't exactly getting better each year and so if a reform does take too long it's possible that the current crop of talented developers may no longer be there to make full use of it when it does happen.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:38 PM
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If Graal had tons of players, I wouldn't be developing for it unless there was a system in place for me to receive payment for my work.

Right now it's just a hobby for me. I don't care that I'm not getting any compensation because I know they're not getting much out of it. However, if my work started generating a lot of revenue for them, I wouldn't do it for free anymore.

Just wondering, do any of the developers for iPhone receive any type of compensation? If not, you're getting used pretty hard.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:39 PM
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If Graal had tons of players, I wouldn't be developing for it unless there was a system in place for me to receive payment for my work.

Right now it's just a hobby for me. I don't care that I'm not getting any compensation because I know they're not getting much out of it. However, if my work started generating a lot of revenue for them, I wouldn't do it for free anymore.

Just wondering, do any of the developers for iPhone receive any type of compensation? If not, you're getting used pretty hard.
Indeed, I wouldn't mind 10 cents an hour and 3 bucks a gani(6 for a set depending on complexity) If I got paid to do it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:43 PM
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Indeed, I wouldn't mind 10 cents an hour and 3 bucks a gani(6 for a set depending on complexity) If I got paid to do it.
  • Player spends $50 on 100 gelats at graalonline.com because he/she is very interested in my server.
  • Player uses gelats to buy something in a shop on my server.
  • The 100 gelats are transferred to my account.
  • I log on to graalonline.com and cash in the 100 gelats for $25

Graal makes $25, I make $25. Yay.

edit: could also implement a gelat transferring system so that I can transfer gelats to pay my staff members (maybe add a transfer fee or something, but that would be lame)
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
  • Player spends $50 on 100 gelats at graalonline.com because he/she is very interested in my server.
  • Player uses gelats to buy something in a shop on my server.
  • The 100 gelats are transferred to my account.
  • I log on to graalonline.com and cash in the 100 gelats for $25

Graal makes $25, I make $25. Yay.
Genius.
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