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  #31  
Old 08-27-2011, 07:58 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
That's not how I see it one bit. He's saying he enjoys Classic on Facebook and for some reason (as much as you'd like to hide it with your fancy schmancy words) that triggers some emotional response from PC Classic's staff anytime it's said. Perhaps he was referring to Unholy Nation? The only classic-styled server that's on the server list at the moment. The whole world doesn't revolve around you and your fellow staff team, so please, don't flip your lid and act like it is.
Maybe it is my bad here, but it's how I was reading the argument. You can't disagree that there has always been tension between PC Classic's staff and you, Crono, and some others. I just feel that whenever there is this tension and we start talking about it, we tend to try to discredit each other rather than actually get to the root of the problem. That probably includes my post there. And maybe your response.

Who knows.
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  #32  
Old 08-27-2011, 08:09 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
The whole world doesn't revolve around you
I don't share WDs feeling that this was targeted at Classic specifically or that Crono is trying to start an argument, and can hold my hands up and say that I've brought up this discussion on my own initiative, but this is pretty much one of the points I'm trying to make towards Crono's argument style of "what's my opinion is everyone's opinion", when it comes to things like what makes the game what it is or quests.

And for the most part, they are a matter of personal opinion.
There probably will always be a split between those who idealise in core community interaction and those who idealise in solid gameplay. The reason I put forward my suggestion as to one being a part of the game, and another being what makes the game is for the sake of uniformity when branding servers in such a way as "Classic Style", where I do believe there have been some common misconceptions floating about with for a long time.
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  #33  
Old 08-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Maybe it is my bad here, but it's how I was reading the argument. You can't disagree that there has always been tension between PC Classic's staff and you, Crono, and some others. I just feel that whenever there is this tension and we start talking about it, we tend to try to discredit each other rather than actually get to the root of the problem. That probably includes my post there. And maybe your response.

Who knows.
It has nothing to do with a tension from anyone. Crono didn't mention PC Classic at all in his posts, and if there was supposed to be be a dig in there about PC Classic or its staff I'm sure he would at least reference it. All he's talking about the nature of Classic servers, what PC Graal offers, and what there is on Classic iPhone. The extent of "discrediting" could only be in asking Thor if he'd played a server outside of Classic, but I can see how it'd be relevant considering he's talking about experience. You are being paranoid, and if Classic is amazing as its staff believe it is then there is no need for such insecurities. That is all.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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  #34  
Old 08-27-2011, 08:32 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
It has nothing to do with a tension from anyone.
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be going back-and-forth like this if there was no tension.

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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
All he's talking about the nature of Classic servers, what PC Graal offers, and what there is on Classic iPhone.
Even if I percieved the comment to be more targeted towards PC Classic than it was, it still does at least include PC Classic, and more so than any other server since they are all 'Classic' by name.

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You are being paranoid, and if Classic is amazing as its staff believe it is then there is no need for such insecurities. That is all.
Hey, speaking of tension...

Well, as I said, maybe I saw it as more targeted as it was (apparently even Thor thinks so), but this thread isn't the first sort of thread where we are all involved and I feel the discussions are not as productive as they could be.
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  #35  
Old 08-27-2011, 08:46 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be going back-and-forth like this if there was no tension.
The reason I replied is because yes, your post annoyed me. You shot in, emotions flying everywhere, like a teenager kissed for the first time. It has nothing to do with you being Classic staff, though I do understand you're just trying to "discredit [me] rather than actually get to the root of [your] problem" in saying stuff like this, lol. Who you might be discrediting me to I do not know; I can't imagine anyone caring.

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Even if I percieved the comment to be more targeted towards PC Classic than it was, it still does at least include PC Classic, and more so than any other server since they are all 'Classic' by name.
wat?

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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Well, as I said, maybe I saw it as more targeted as it was (apparently even Thor thinks so), but this thread isn't the first sort of thread where we are all involved and I feel the discussions are not as productive as they could be.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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  #36  
Old 08-27-2011, 09:03 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
The reason I replied is because yes, your post annoyed me. You shot in, emotions flying everywhere, like a teenager kissed for the first time.
Now I think you're reading me wrong here. I was a little annoyed, but I did say why, and I don't think I was particularly unreasonable there.

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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
wat?
Whoops, that was really unclear.

I meant 'Graal on PC' from Crono's comment at least includes PC Classic, although it isn't limited to it. And, considering the other two subjects (Facebook Classic and iPhone Classic) are both 'Classic', it seems the PC Classic is at least somewhat more of a target than other servers. That may not be the case at all, but it makes it really easy to read it that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.
If someone says a server is good or better than other servers, then the other servers would normally be interested in discussing why. I suppose you could turn this into something non-productive, but I don't see why you would.



Anyways, considering that we have majorly tangented here, if you want to stop I'm fine with that.
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  #37  
Old 08-27-2011, 09:11 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.
Crono (the author of this thread) began a discussion about Facebook Classic, a couple of people stated their dislike of the Facebook server, to which Crono responded in disagreement, but also felt it was productive to begin discussion on what he feels is a "real" Graal experience.
Therefore I don't see it as unproductive that I've questioned the validity of there being one single real Graal experience, or contributed a different perspective to the nature of the true Classic experience ofwhich he was referring to, which are both also relevant to Facebook Graal.
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  #38  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:06 PM
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  #39  
Old 08-28-2011, 03:44 AM
NewYorkerNick NewYorkerNick is offline
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Why can't graal be lyke it wuz?


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  #40  
Old 08-28-2011, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkerNick View Post
Why can't graal be lyke it wuz?


iPhone/Facebook Graal is a lot like Graal used to be, minus the tons of horrible quests that no one liked doing anyways(they were either always buggy, or just sucked... or both). Graal has always heavily relied on community for enjoyment, and it's pretty much what's being provided(more than it ever has had).
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  #41  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:57 PM
Crono Crono is offline
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WD I didn't mean anything like that, my opinion about quests is a global one. If anything Classic's is some of the best so far. My point was simply that iClassic provides us with the same experience those old servers gave us.

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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
but this is pretty much one of the points I'm trying to make towards Crono's argument style of "what's my opinion is everyone's opinion", when it comes to things like what makes the game what it is or quests.
I've played a crap ton of servers since I started Graal in 2000, and I was never one to stick to the big servers (Classic, UN, etc). I played just about every "core"/"real"/whatever you want to call it server since then. My opinion regarding quests doesn't come from just me, it's how everyone I've met in the past have felt about them.

Shaded Legend itself had, what was for the time, amazing quests. There were custom ganis, cutscenes, a storyline, etc. But guess what? After the first hour people didn't really care. SL had a lot of content, but what it came down to was its events and pking for the, like, 10 people that played the server.

Remember when they uploaded "Graal 2000"? It was supposed to take people back to the old days of questing on Graal the Adventure. Never caught on.
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  #42  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:18 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Here are the amounts of different accounts that have completed the various tasks which are included within the Notebook weapon on Classic:

Wong's Soup - 1533

Acorn's Clothes - 1020

Rescuing Larry - 686

Bank Robbery - 560

Zol's Toilet - 506

Christian's Shop - 243

Tomb - 120

I think this is pretty good amount of plays for what has so far been an Under Construction server considering "nobody cares about quests".

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Remember when they uploaded "Graal 2000"? It was supposed to take people back to the old days of questing on Graal the Adventure. Never caught on.
This isn't entirely true, Graal2000 was intended to take people back to how Classic was before Tyhm had completely re-shaped the server and turned it into the more linear and coherent "Graal the Adventure" which had a storyline.
2000 Classic may have had quests, which were still a main purpose behind the design of the game, but it was much closer to this "real Graal experience" you speak of than what it was trying to separate itself from.

In Tyhm's own words:
Quote:
you can't make progress by dwelling solely in Nostalgia, as I think The Xmas Experiments proved. (The Old Graal Servers, one which was forbidden to update - and nobody liked it, one which was encouraged to update - and nobody liked it).

Last edited by ffcmike; 08-28-2011 at 07:46 PM..
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  #43  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:00 PM
Crono Crono is offline
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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
Here are the amounts of different accounts that have completed the various tasks which are included within the Notebook weapon on Classic:

Wong's Soup - 1533

Acorn's Clothes - 1020

Rescuing Larry - 686

Bank Robbery - 560

Zol's Toilet - 506

Christian's Shop - 243

Tomb - 120

I think this is pretty good amount of plays for what has so far been an Under Construction server considering "nobody cares about quests".
Sure, but if players had a choice between completing these quests and getting the items vs getting the items without having to quest, they'd probably choose the latter. On Zodiac we had a quest you went through to gain some extra hp/mp. This was eventually removed and not a single **** was given.



Quote:
This isn't entirely true, Graal2000 was intended to take people back to how Classic was before Tyhm had completely re-shaped the server and turned it into the more linear and coherent "Graal the Adventure" which had a storyline.
2000 Classic may have had quests, which were still a main purpose behind the design of the game, but it was much closer to this "real Graal experience" you speak of than what it was trying to separate itself from.
What part of what I posted wasn't true?
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  #44  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:10 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
WD I didn't mean anything like that, my opinion about quests is a global one. If anything Classic's is some of the best so far. My point was simply that iClassic provides us with the same experience those old servers gave us.
Okay, sorry.
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  #45  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:19 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Sure, but if players had a choice between completing these quests and getting the items vs getting the items without having to quest, they'd probably choose the latter. On Zodiac we had a quest you went through to gain some extra hp/mp. This was eventually removed and not a single **** was given.
I'm sure a high proportion of players who are already familiar with Graal or aren't specifically seeking a questing experience probably would choose to skip through given the choice, it's less effort.
But I also bet this would be denying an experience to many who would otherwise become interested in the server itself, or in the case of iPhone refugees even benefit from some of the things they'd learn and go on to appreciate by playing through, which are pretty much 2 of the main purposes of having quests.

On the other hand, while I do understand that a significant portion of the remaining established players aren't keen on quests, it's likely that a higher number of the older players who did appreciate questing have quit Graal, as quests have dissipated from the game.
This is something that has to be factored into any divide between the 2 different ideals.

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What part of what I posted wasn't true?
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It was supposed to take people back to the old days of questing
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