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  #31  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:23 AM
Elk Elk is offline
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If I were manager and the content already being prepared to ensure longetivity in respect to all game studies related subjects for an mmorpg, I wouldnt even ask a PWA if I am allowed to wipe, as long as it doesn't oppose any harm to the entity

of course it would need to be agreed with by the entire staffs, or only some

If it meant flourishment, I would gladly sacrifice steppingstones for the potential (as many riskfactors eliminated as possible) growth of the game.

It's next to impossible to have everyone agree to changes, especially when it comes to wipes
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  #32  
Old 07-30-2015, 11:10 AM
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Monk.
I know, but the playercount is still there.
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  #33  
Old 07-30-2015, 12:21 PM
Xenoith Xenoith is offline
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If I were manager and the content already being prepared to ensure longetivity in respect to all game studies related subjects for an mmorpg, I wouldnt even ask a PWA if I am allowed to wipe, as long as it doesn't oppose any harm to the entity

of course it would need to be agreed with by the entire staffs, or only some

If it meant flourishment, I would gladly sacrifice steppingstones for the potential (as many riskfactors eliminated as possible) growth of the game.

It's next to impossible to have everyone agree to changes, especially when it comes to wipes

Then some sacrifices are going to need to be made. You can't appease to everyone. People will quit, let them. But there are plenty of outsorcing areas, like reddit, tumblr places like those where social media flourishes. Zodiac and PC Graal in general needs a tailwind. If anything why not try to put together a server wide screenshot. Better yet, make it a contest, for people who have the best screenshot and submit it to be used.

Also the only thing that's an issue with Zodiac, the PvP aspect. In terms of class balancing a lot of the classes are indeed unfair. Some of the classes mechanics need to be reworked. We completely scrapped/locked Freelance. Which in my opinion was a very fun class, it gave a lot of useless gear meaning. I think Freelance should make a come back, but under a blanket nerf until the skills can be properly tweaked. It was rather unfair to Ryu to have the man work on the class, only to have the rug ripped from under him like that.

The other thing I notice doesn't happen is enforcement of the rules. People get way out of hand with the insults, it doesn't need to go "that" far. When you're being borderline racist or just plain racist. The GP Team we currently have mind you stands idle as these things happen. We need some form of foundation for the rules. Era, GK and other servers have rules. Why is Zodiac an exception to this?

The reason I am asking this is because players who even sign up to be ET get harassed by players over and over. GP' don't intervene to put a stop to it unless you literally tell them to do so. It shouldn't have to come to someone freaking out for a GP to go "Oh hey I should do something." When the Shout channel is being blown up with insults left and right.

It's why I don't bother posting on the Zodiac forums. Hell, one of the staff members changed my title to this. Isn't this amusing? I don't know which staff did it, but I do have a pretty good idea. This is why we need trusted staff members. So they're not pulling stuff like this. It's not funny and honestly it's sad. I get called Toxic, but yet the players running around dropping the N word constantly. Zodiac staff honestly cater mostly to their friends and close friends and it's about time it stopped or it's never going to actually go anywhere.

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  #34  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
If I were manager and the content already being prepared to ensure longetivity in respect to all game studies related subjects for an mmorpg, I wouldnt even ask a PWA if I am allowed to wipe, as long as it doesn't oppose any harm to the entity

of course it would need to be agreed with by the entire staffs, or only some

If it meant flourishment, I would gladly sacrifice steppingstones for the potential (as many riskfactors eliminated as possible) growth of the game.

It's next to impossible to have everyone agree to changes, especially when it comes to wipes
You should learn the value of updates, patches, and hotfixes.
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Originally Posted by Xenolith
Also the only thing that's an issue with Zodiac, the PvP aspect. In terms of class balancing a lot of the classes are indeed unfair.
Doesn't require account resets to fix, though. Zodiac already has a pretty solid system for storing and resetting player stats but if you reset their accounts instead, they will lose literally every class they've worked on.
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Then some sacrifices are going to need to be made.
Oh please.

Last edited by Draenin; 07-30-2015 at 02:18 PM..
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  #35  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:20 PM
Xenoith Xenoith is offline
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Originally Posted by Draenin View Post
You should learn the value of updates, patches, and hotfixes.
Doesn't require account resets to fix, though. Zodiac already has a pretty solid system for storing and resetting player stats but if you reset their accounts instead, they will lose literally every class they've worked on.
Oh please.
Then you suggest something, since it seems what I say doesn't exactly "appease" your ideal interest. So please come up with something.
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  #36  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:19 PM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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Originally Posted by Xenoith View Post
Then you suggest something, since it seems what I say doesn't exactly "appease" your ideal interest. So please come up with something.
Sure thing.


Class Improvements

First of all, if the classes and pvp stuff is so terrible, skills and stat assignments need to be adjusted for those classes. If a skill lasts too long, or is too potent, you nerf it. If it's not powerful enough, you boost it by adjusting the values it has been assigned.

This might require character stats to be reset, but it doesn't mean user accounts need to be reset. Zodiac actually has a built-in 'Character Reset' function for taking stats off of players and allowing them to re-assign them. That means that players will not lose their levels or items, and can continue playing as normal with the new changes in place.

Dungeon Improvements

As I've mentioned before in previous posts, one problem that Zodiac and many other servers have is that there's not a lot to do near the end of the game. The level cap was set at 60 when Zodiac released, and has never risen.

There are a few endgame 'raid' style dungeons that are meant for high level players, but the rewards are simply just gear. Most people will take the easy way out by just buying the set pieces they need instead. And once they're all decked out, they have no reason to revisit old locations.

One solution to this is to periodically release new dungeons and gradually raise the level cap, while providing extra incentives for revisiting old locations can help as well. For instance, Graal Kingdoms introduced its randomized 'chest' system in dungeons to make running them more worthwhile. And it has definitely paid off.

Also, if players are now 'OP' enough to farm enemies in the game's most difficult dungeons, that needs to end as well. Difficult dungeons are more engaging than easy ones, and Zodiac developers should not be afraid to fill them with monsters that can swat down even the strongest tanks in a few hits if they aren't being assisted by a healer or two. Doing so will also make it easier for developers to raise the drop rates on some items, because tougher fights mean a lower chance of success anyway.

Quests and Achievements

I am a huge fan of achievement systems, and firmly believe all servers should adopt them if they can. Achievements give players extra things to do at the end of the game, and provide the opportunity to do 'side quests' and earn bragging rights. They can be tailored toward any type of task, and give players concrete goals to strive toward.

Achievements can also be put in place for groups of people as well, like Guilds and Nations. This gives multiple people a common cause to fight for, and strengthens their ability to cooperate.

And while quests are important, the fact that most of them can only be completed once can be detrimental. Zodiac should definitely look into things like providing more randomized dailies, and reward players for completing them. This can be done either through direct rewards, or players could earn points with an NPC faction in order to purchase special items from their vendors.



These are just a few things which could be done to improve the server without needing to do anything foolishly drastic like forcibly wiping all accounts.

There are plenty of alternatives to these issues, and server-wide account resets do not solve the problems that faulty game mechanics create.

The best thing to do is to look for the source of these problems, and start there first.

Last edited by Draenin; 07-30-2015 at 03:32 PM..
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  #37  
Old 07-30-2015, 05:43 PM
Xenoith Xenoith is offline
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Originally Posted by Draenin View Post
Sure thing.


Class Improvements

First of all, if the classes and pvp stuff is so terrible, skills and stat assignments need to be adjusted for those classes. If a skill lasts too long, or is too potent, you nerf it. If it's not powerful enough, you boost it by adjusting the values it has been assigned.

This might require character stats to be reset, but it doesn't mean user accounts need to be reset. Zodiac actually has a built-in 'Character Reset' function for taking stats off of players and allowing them to re-assign them. That means that players will not lose their levels or items, and can continue playing as normal with the new changes in place.

Dungeon Improvements

As I've mentioned before in previous posts, one problem that Zodiac and many other servers have is that there's not a lot to do near the end of the game. The level cap was set at 60 when Zodiac released, and has never risen.

There are a few endgame 'raid' style dungeons that are meant for high level players, but the rewards are simply just gear. Most people will take the easy way out by just buying the set pieces they need instead. And once they're all decked out, they have no reason to revisit old locations.

One solution to this is to periodically release new dungeons and gradually raise the level cap, while providing extra incentives for revisiting old locations can help as well. For instance, Graal Kingdoms introduced its randomized 'chest' system in dungeons to make running them more worthwhile. And it has definitely paid off.

Also, if players are now 'OP' enough to farm enemies in the game's most difficult dungeons, that needs to end as well. Difficult dungeons are more engaging than easy ones, and Zodiac developers should not be afraid to fill them with monsters that can swat down even the strongest tanks in a few hits if they aren't being assisted by a healer or two. Doing so will also make it easier for developers to raise the drop rates on some items, because tougher fights mean a lower chance of success anyway.

Quests and Achievements

I am a huge fan of achievement systems, and firmly believe all servers should adopt them if they can. Achievements give players extra things to do at the end of the game, and provide the opportunity to do 'side quests' and earn bragging rights. They can be tailored toward any type of task, and give players concrete goals to strive toward.

Achievements can also be put in place for groups of people as well, like Guilds and Nations. This gives multiple people a common cause to fight for, and strengthens their ability to cooperate.

And while quests are important, the fact that most of them can only be completed once can be detrimental. Zodiac should definitely look into things like providing more randomized dailies, and reward players for completing them. This can be done either through direct rewards, or players could earn points with an NPC faction in order to purchase special items from their vendors.



These are just a few things which could be done to improve the server without needing to do anything foolishly drastic like forcibly wiping all accounts.

There are plenty of alternatives to these issues, and server-wide account resets do not solve the problems that faulty game mechanics create.

The best thing to do is to look for the source of these problems, and start there first.

1. PvP adjustments have been going on for MONTHS if not years. Dark Knight's overall DoT damage and skill kit can still bring down even moderately geared players. Ninja right now is the new meta due to the Corrosion % which reduces armor by 15% on top of it being able to stack a Poison that ticks for 800. Crono can speak on my behalf when we got the new critical update it literally destroyed Monk. There are 0 Monks on the server except for Crono and yo_momma85. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what is wrong with most of the classes in the game.

We've also opened up multiple threads debating classes and damage on skills in the past. We literally have 1 man balancing over 24 classes in the game. I think he needs help or at least an assistant to help him but he refuses to outsource and seek help. So class balancing has become a major issue. If you want to lend us some scripters for balancing by all means do so.

2. We've only gotten maybe a handful of new dungeons in the last...year. One of them which is going to be closing today actually. Summer Dungeon. Not to mention that the newest dungeon we had awhile back (Terrum) now has broken mechanics which make the dungeon literally unplayable.

We've gotten a new "dungeon" which was a poor man's project that Ryu (Jiroxys7) started but didn't really get a chance to finish/spruce up. So there's that.

3. Quest now have ridiculous requirements. Example, getting 2,000 Fish for a weapon which does horrid damage. Or better yet, quest items such as Ash/Cedar Logs which range up in the 300-400 range just so you can get to the next quest. Or like 100 Cores when the drop rate on cores is 0.1%. Here let me give you our Scavenge Formula compared with our current drop rate. Courtesy of Nikwal.

Scavenge works like this:
Drop rate * 1.xx = actual drop rate

1.xx if 100> Scavenge > 9, 1.0x if 10 > Scavenge > 0 and 2.xx if Scavenge > 100 (and then applying the first two rules again).

Example: Drop rate is at 0.5%, your party gathered a Scavenge rating of 78 (even the ones not in the room count): 0.5%*1.78= 0.89%

As for the drops, it used to roll from drop to drop, like "SotT 0.01%, rolled 84%, onto the next in the list" and so on until it hit the right number (usually on armor). Thus, a lot of drops were hardly obtainable or others were more frequent. By now I think it rolls a number and if there are more than 1 drop in that percentage range, it chooses a random one.


We also have something new called Dungeon Tickets, which are dropped from bosses when you defeat them. You get 1 per. No more no less and this is our Ticket Shop. Here is the numbers for some of the best weapons in the game.



Please note the jump from 750 to 3000. A 2,250 marginal ticket increase. When Cane of Isis is the best Mage weapon in the game.

So this is where our development is at right now. 1 Ticket per boss and you 7,000 Tickets for 1 Weapon. Which will take you well over a few months if not a year of farming to actually acquire ONE of those weapons.

Let's do the math on this one. 7000 - 750 = 6250 marginal increase. Now mind you our drop rate on these "Legendary" weapons are so low that doing the tickets seem plausible and more sane than anything else. We're also in dire need of an actual Marketboard system so players can put up items over night and sell them without being logged in, currently you need to be logged in to sell those items and items in player shops can only be sold up to a cap of 3 million. Where if you put in a Marketboard, you can sell it for how much you want.
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  #38  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:40 PM
MysticalDragon MysticalDragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
If I were manager and the content already being prepared to ensure longetivity in respect to all game studies related subjects for an mmorpg, I wouldnt even ask a PWA if I am allowed to wipe, as long as it doesn't oppose any harm to the entity

of course it would need to be agreed with by the entire staffs, or only some

If it meant flourishment, I would gladly sacrifice steppingstones for the potential (as many riskfactors eliminated as possible) growth of the game.

It's next to impossible to have everyone agree to changes, especially when it comes to wipes

Then that would get you fired, and we would roll the server back anyways thus making your attempt pointless.
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  #39  
Old 07-30-2015, 07:41 PM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoith View Post
Specific stuff.
See, this is the kind of discussion that needs to be going on instead.

Server-wide account resets and 'new versions' of servers don't always solve these problems if they are inherently built into the game.



One thing that can definitely help with balancing statistics alone is the use of 'spreads.' What this means is that you take a 'total' amount of points that you want to be available on items, and then create variance between them by distributing stats in a different way.

Let's say we want a piece of armor to have a maximum of 10 stat points on it, but we don't want it to be superior to all other armor pieces in the game. Rather than just doing a lot of guess work, the 'spread' of points can be used to determine the relative power of each item for easy comparison.

Consider the following:

Iron Helmet

Strength +2
HP +5
Armor +3

Bandit Mask

Agility +4
HP +3
Armor +3

Wizard Hat

Magic +7
HP +2
Armor +1

These non-existent items are slightly unbalanced, but their composite stat totals always equal 10. So although they are very different from each other, they still have the same amount of points distributed between them.

Absolutely perfect balance can make for a very dull game, and there needs to be a little bit of wiggle room for imbalance. But when classes, items, skills, and so on are too far out of balance, it creates gameplay issues later on down the road.



It's very good practice to look many different aspects of the game and ask questions like:

"Are the numbers getting too out of control? Does the math work out?"
"Is there something about this particular skill that makes it less useful? Is it redundant?"
"How long could a player survive this amount of damage?"
"How long would it take for a player to earn this? Is that amount of time reasonable?"
"Do these rewards merit the amount of time put into earning them?"
"Is there too much currency in the hands of players? Is that affecting item prices?"
"How can we make sure money is regularly destroyed to avoid impossibly high item prices and inflation?"

And so on.


Once a server has been launched it needs to be maintained and revised, not continuously knocked down and rebuilt. It's counter-productive.

Last edited by Draenin; 07-30-2015 at 08:21 PM..
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  #40  
Old 07-30-2015, 11:47 PM
Ceasar Ceasar is offline
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Reseting the server may make people want to quit but they will eventually return, this is likely the only way to encourage newcomers to play on this server otherwise the new players will leave after getting smashed by 8 lv.60 players that are equiped with a set that takes atleast a year or longer to obtain.

Increasing level cap would make some builds extremely overpowered, this is why the level cap should no increase.. they must do alot of work to adjust the levels again.

It's true that some build are favored, warrior only needs lv.42 levels and it gives them 18 whole points to build into 12 monk 6 gladiator for a damage boost or 6 thief 12 scout for stealth and sprint.

a scout or a monk however is forced to build lv.52 so they only have 8 remaining levels to build into whatever they can.



The dungeon ticket shop's pricing should be adjusted, with this change it will still take some time to obtain the weapons, it should not have such a large gap with Cane of Isis.

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Axe of Borea 3000 > 1000 White Squall 4500 > 1500 War Cleaver 5000 > 2000 Sword of the Trees 5500 > 2000 Heaven Punisher 7000 > 2500 Cinquedea of Ruin 7000 > 2500
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  #41  
Old 07-31-2015, 12:48 AM
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we are looking into increasing GP activity and possibly hiring more GPs.

tiu has been given more rights to develop content.

staff list has been trimmed of ex-staff.
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  #42  
Old 07-31-2015, 02:08 PM
Xenoith Xenoith is offline
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we are looking into increasing GP activity and possibly hiring more GPs.

tiu has been given more rights to develop content.

staff list has been trimmed of ex-staff.
I've asked time and time again to help out with GP matters. I don't care if I have to be trained for a week to know all the rules Jerett. I've spoke on this matter before and it got completely down turned. So with your permission I'd like to talk to you in private about this whole GP set up and business behind it.

@Ceasar - I wouldn't drop them down to 2500. The Legendaries anyway, but instead of Dungeon Tickets, have them be a combination of Terrum Tokens/Dungeon Tickets and Grotto Tickets. So people aren't mindlessly farming the same thing over and over. Unless of course instead of 2500 it's bumped up to just 3k.
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Old 07-31-2015, 04:52 PM
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I've asked time and time again to help out with GP matters. I don't care if I have to be trained for a week to know all the rules Jerett. I've spoke on this matter before and it got completely down turned. So with your permission I'd like to talk to you in private about this whole GP set up and business behind it.
Raven is in charge of it so you will likely want to speak with him instead.
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Old 07-31-2015, 06:18 PM
Xenoith Xenoith is offline
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Raven is in charge of it so you will likely want to speak with him instead.
I spoke to Tiu and I have word from Tiu through you that he no longer is GPA. So I will talk with you instead.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:05 AM
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