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  #16  
Old 10-02-2006, 01:59 PM
Sam Sam is offline
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Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
Ok, but still, what laws are we using to distinguish between lawful and unlawful behaviour?
French laws?
It's not only a question of law, but of policy of Linux cyberjoueurs.

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This is the mods, anything is possible and we've all grown onto that.

I don't understand =x...though i predicted you because you're 2 countries down from me. heh
Yes that's the reason. For almost all the other mods it was still night when it was posted.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:09 PM
Darlene159 Darlene159 is offline
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Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
Ok, but still, what laws are we using to distinguish between lawful and unlawful behaviour?
French laws?
Are the French laws so much different from the laws of the US when it comes to internet behavior? In my opinion, a lot of it is simple common sense and common decency, and respect for other members.
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:18 PM
Demisis_P2P Demisis_P2P is offline
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Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
Are the French laws so much different from the laws of the US when it comes to internet behavior? In my opinion, a lot of it is simple common sense and common decency, and respect for other members.
And external links somehow infringe upon that?
Heaven forbid that somebody should be told by another person that they personally do not like or agree with them.
It's really not healthy to block so much out and create a false sense of security.

Darlene I'm sure that when you were a young girl you had '*****fights' with other girls at your school, or in your ballet class, or whatever kids did before TV was invented. And being exposed to that kind of stuff made you more aware of it and eventually gave you the experience to handle it and rise above.
These are our '*****fights', we need them.

Have you ever actually been on the game client? And logged onto UN, and seen all the gothic kids and kids dressed up as babies, cybering and doing a + back, a + back, in beds? Yet for some reason, the forums, which are obviously populated by more intelligent and responsible people are less liberal? That to me just doesn't make any sense.

P.S. a + back, a + back, a + back.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:22 PM
Zero Hour Zero Hour is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
And external links somehow infringe upon that?
Heaven forbid that somebody should be told by another person that they personally do not like or agree with them.
It's really not healthy to block so much out and create a false sense of security.
It's just part of the rules, the game serves to a young audience. Deal.
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Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
Are the French laws so much different from the laws of the US when it comes to internet behavior? In my opinion, a lot of it is simple common sense and common decency, and respect for other members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
Darlene I'm sure that when you were a young girl you had '*****fights' with other girls at your school, or in your ballet class, or whatever kids did before TV was invented. And being exposed to that kind of stuff made you more aware of it and eventually gave you the experience to handle it and rise above.
These are our '*****fights', we need them.
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:26 PM
Demisis_P2P Demisis_P2P is offline
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I was joking ZH. :{
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  #21  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:27 PM
Zero Hour Zero Hour is offline
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I was joking ZH. :{
It's too late now, you've been served
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:47 PM
Darlene159 Darlene159 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
And external links somehow infringe upon that?
Unfortunately, a lot of external links, even if they are not inappropriate themselves, sometimes lead to inappropriate content. We still allow non-graal related (appropriate) links, but only in the lounge, so you still have the option. It isn't like it was removed completely.
You have to remember, the main Graal forums are for Graal hence graal related sites being allowed.
Quote:
Heaven forbid that somebody should be told by another person that they personally do not like or agree with them.
It's really not healthy to block so much out and create a false sense of security.
In a perfect world, kids could voice that they personally don't like someone, and it would be taken in stride, and they would move on. However, that is not the way it works on these forums. It turns into a full fledged flame fest, and that isn't what these forums are for.

Quote:
Darlene I'm sure that when you were a young girl you had '*****fights' with other girls at your school, or in your ballet class, or whatever kids did before TV was invented. And being exposed to that kind of stuff made you more aware of it and eventually gave you the experience to handle it and rise above.
These are our '*****fights', we need them.
Number one, TV was invented when I was a kid thank you very much. Way to trash my age. Is that suppose to make me respect you and what you say more?
These forums have nothing to do with the way you handle things in real life. You can carry on with your life without fighting on a forum.

Quote:
Have you ever actually been on the game client? And logged onto UN, and seen all the gothic kids and kids dressed up as babies, cybering and doing a + back, a + back, in beds? Yet for some reason, the forums, which are obviously populated by more intelligent and responsible people are less liberal? That to me just doesn't make any sense.

P.S. a + back, a + back, a + back.
Yea, I have. I have no control over that unfortunately. I can only attempt to keep the forums clean.
You know, without strict moderation here, the forums could become just like some of the playerworlds....out of control with inappropriate content.
Not on my watch...
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INFO ABOUT REPUTATIONS.
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NOTE: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN POSTS.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:48 PM
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Not on my watch...
Hardcore
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:55 PM
Sam Sam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
In a perfect world, kids could voice that they personally don't like someone, and it would be taken in stride, and they would move on....
Don't forget, a spoken word don't lasts as long as a written.
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2006, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Don't forget, a spoken word don't lasts as long as a written.
Alright guys, let's keep the insults, flaming, bashing, etc on the game. You know, the game that these forums are supposed to be for.
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  #26  
Old 10-03-2006, 02:58 AM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
-- this is vague aswell, I've not seen Graal attempt to ever cater to the needs of all user communities. They have Christmas events but no hanukkah!???!!!!!
I know, totally. It freaks me out how on Classic, (particularly when Classic was the only server,) there was a christian church (complete with roman-catholic priest - in static graphic, head, body5 makes a fair Collar...) and a few satanic shrines (primarily in the archives, I think Voluran's and Ebon were bending in that direction a few times) but nothing to represent any of the other religions. I comissioned Bar Giora to make us a synagogue, but he never did...something about it looks just like a church without a cross, I can't remember the precise details.

But yeah - all religions, no religions, or only fake religions. Note that the default chapel graphics avoid the use of real-religious iconography - just a Graal at the top. If there's a Church of Graal, that's fine. If their priests look a little real-priesty, I don't see that as being necessarily a problem - as long as they aren't carrying any blatant markers of Who Worships Whom, it's still basically balanced. But if there's an official Jesus Fish Church, then the buddhists get one too, so do the mormons, so do the jews, so does the church of the flying spaghetti monster (I was touched by his noodly appendage, arr).

In my administration I was always very careful to "misspell" it as X-Mas, the Holiday of Capitalist Gratitude. Santa, reindeer, snowmen, all sufficiently divorced from their religious roots that it's no more a bludgeoning by christianity than the old Frosty the Snowman claymation they play every december - and certainly less sectarian than Merry Christmas Charlie Brown.

Thus I propose another thread - should we invent an official mythology for Graal, so we can still have a midwinter festival without excluding certain religious groups unduly?

And as regards the main topic - yeah, nobody's read the EULA. Nobody pays attention to these things, especially not the admins that wrote it years and years ago. Technically if you read all the rules I'm still the LAT Admin, just On Extended Vacation - but nobody reads all the rules, not that I'd rampage across Classic on a whim anyway.
So - what defines Legal? There are International Laws regarding internet behavior, though they're ill-defined, scattered, and somewhat hard to find. I'd say we should defer to the largest international legislative entity, the United Nations, but as the president of my country has unfortunately declared, they don't have jurisdiction over the United States (which is funny, as the UN was Woodrow Wilson's idea if memory serves...might have the president wrong...)
-thus, should we write up hard and fast rules? I don't actually know. I think I'd advise against it, in all honesty. It's a question of ratios - the admins would spend maybe a thousand man-hours (human-hours really, since I imagine the burden would fall equally on both genders, but human-hours sounds like I'm an alien talking, so I use the old gender-inappropriate phrasing) writing waterproof rules, then carve them into stone and show them to all the world...which would then spend infinite hu/man-hours chipping away at them, finding loopholes, exploiting new technology.
"You said we can't use any of these programs to edit the memory, but you never said I can't use Norton's new ActiveGhost program to RESTORE the memory state from a few seconds ago!"
"You said I can't call anyone a n***, n*****, w**, f**, f*****, c***, c*********, or a b****, but you never said anything about Mekraub! Or the translations of these words into various native languages!"

Scarily enough, I recommend the EULA reflect the following:
"Based on the judgement of the admins, your access may be terminated at any time and for any reason, with or without warning." Then to smooth things over, "You may appeal any such decision to a panel of no less than 6 global admins of your chosing, with a 2/3 majority needed to overturn. Alternatively, you may request a partial refund (deducting time elapsed prior to restriction), with a simple majority sufficient to pass." Nevermind how impossible it is to find 4, let alone 6, global admins, nor how unlikely it is to get them to listen to a banhammered newbie over the admin that banned them; principally, it would allow Graal to move forward with impunity.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
Alright guys, let's keep the insults, flaming, bashing, etc on the game. You know, the game that these forums are supposed to be for.
this guy said it best.

he wins.
someone should close this thread.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-2006, 06:15 AM
Demisis_P2P Demisis_P2P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyhm View Post
Lots of stuff
I agree to everything you've said.
I also think that the EULA should be updated to be less vague.

And in response to Darlene:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene
Are the French laws so much different from the laws of the US when it comes to internet behavior?
Judging by these forums I'd have to say yes.
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  #29  
Old 10-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
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One example off the top of my head...
okay, I guess it takes a little digging around...
In Germany, as I understand it, the swastika is (or maybe just Was) banned outright. As in, not even as a historical reference, not as "these are the enemies" in a video game, nothing. To the point that, for international release, the guys at Buena Vista Interactive had to edit the tail of the zeppelin in the climactic battle scene of the (admittedly hokey) Rocketeer Video Game, so it was an SS Hindenburg instead of a [email protected] Hindenburg.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm going off old information - but for the sake of this paragraph, let's pretend Tyhm's right. In such a case, what happens when a russian player uploads a server in which you stumble upon the ruins of Castle Jagerstein and find an abandoned [email protected] experimental nuclear weapon which is approaching meltdown, and the entire quest is about routing enough of the rusty water pipes through to the coolant room to keep it from reaching critical mass. Is he allowed to have rotting [email protected] flags? Is he even allowed to use the uncensored word? What if he puts in some code such that if (language==deutsch) showimg ssflag.png;, else showimg swastika.png?

It's maybe not the best example of varying local-federal regulations meshing with internet-federal laws, but I'd just as soon avoid the better example of "LOLZ 14 IS LEGAL IN JAPAN!"
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  #30  
Old 10-03-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Torankusu View Post
this guy said it best.

he wins.
someone should close this thread.
U GO GURL!!1

and u go @ tyhm, he's laying the meat
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