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  #106  
Old 05-27-2011, 04:52 AM
salesman salesman is offline
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You can spin it however you want, but it comes down to one simple fact: Graal makes money off of content made by paying customers without giving them any kind of compensation. Do they have to give us compensation? No. Should they? Maybe. If they did, I doubt it would be anything extraordinary.

If you really think you have what it takes to make money off of your work, go somewhere else. There are plenty of free game engines/frameworks out there that you can use. However, keep in mind that the Graal engine is extremely easy to use in comparison. Graal gives you an already fully functional game before you write a single script or create a single graphic.

edit: you can't do something for free and then turn around and complain that you're not getting paid. You knew what you were getting yourself into. It's not like they're lying to you about what they offer.
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  #107  
Old 05-27-2011, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
you can't do something for free and then turn around and complain that you're not getting paid. You knew what you were getting yourself into. It's not like they're lying to you about what they offer.
Just because I've agreed to something doesn't make that thing good. There is room for improvement and I'd like to see it happen.


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Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
Why complain now? This has been going on for about a decade now, on and increasing scale, yet this is the first universally agreed upon "Stefan/Unix are leeches" debates.

Nothing major has changed, other than them charging to upload shields. Remember when they decided to charge you to play certain servers? And, then charge you to play classic servers. And, then take away the "lifetime classic" subscription?

You've been paying money to upload (use the tools, same thing) in one way or another for years now.
I can't speak for others, but personally I still play this game and still develop on this game, so every moment of this sub-par situation affects me directly. Why would I not discuss it, given that?
  #108  
Old 05-27-2011, 05:54 AM
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This issssss graal. How is that so hard to understand? User content. The game has always been user content. Nothing has changed except the amount of money Eurocenter is making from it.

It honestly is as simple as saying if you don't want to not get paid for your work being used to make money, then don't contribute your work. If they start charging $40 a month to play, no one is going to play. There is a breaking point for everyone. Decide yours.
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  #109  
Old 05-27-2011, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
This issssss graal. How is that so hard to understand? User content. The game has always been user content.
This is also only true to a certain extent, the game has indeed always been user content, but user content is not how the game has always been marketed.
  #110  
Old 05-27-2011, 06:38 AM
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This is also only true to a certain extent, the game has indeed always been user content, but user content is not how the game has always been marketed.
When has the game ever been marketed?
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  #111  
Old 05-27-2011, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
It honestly is as simple as saying if you don't want to not get paid for your work being used to make money, then don't contribute your work. If they start charging $40 a month to play, no one is going to play. There is a breaking point for everyone. Decide yours.
I'm not sure why this needs to be viewed in such a black and white way.

I enjoy plenty of things about Graal which can't really be found other places. Wouldn't it be natural to try and improve Graal rather than drop it entirely?
  #112  
Old 05-27-2011, 06:46 AM
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Yes, that is Graal. But its getting worse.

Before, you payed to develop; not just for your friends. If you make a server specifically to entertain your friends, idk whats wrong with you.
I develop to entertain the Graal population, because I like to make stuff people like.

Subscription costs and server costs used to be much much lower. So, it wasn't horrible to pay to develop.
Then subscription prices skyrocketed, along with server rentals. Stefan began taking content from PC and slapping it on other platforms...
Thats when players start to complain.

I don't even mind paying to develop...I put up with the crappy tools they provide...
But its sad when I see other peoples hard work slapped onto the iPhone, no credit...no compensation...and Stefan rakes in the dough.
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  #113  
Old 05-27-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
When has the game ever been marketed?
My point is that if you go to the Graal Online website Zone and Graal Kingdoms are promoted as their own game with no mention of user content despite also largely consisting of this.
PlayerWorlds are now promoted with "Create your own game" second to "Play a player-built world", but this is only a comparatively recent thing. Prior to V5 they were promoted as official games in just the same way as GK and Zone.
  #114  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:50 AM
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If I had 1$ a day for all the days iv been developing, I would be more than happy.
  #115  
Old 06-25-2011, 02:54 AM
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You guys need to stop whining and just quit, seriously. Each one of you showing any real debate in here is quite talented. Heck, I'd love to work with any and all of you making a game if you're interested. Graal is useless, dead, and going further down the **** hole. There's a time when you just say; You know what? I am better than this, I'm moving on.

Each one of you, except a few tards, are saying that basically, so just move on. And I forgot the one dude, but he's right, the best way is to stop coding, doing gfx, and such. It's not rebelling against upper management because you're not an employee ... you're just some dirt bag to them. Besides the fact its far worse to be retarded and let yourself and your talent get used than to "stick it to the man".
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  #116  
Old 06-25-2011, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sssssssssss View Post
You guys need to stop whining and just quit, seriously. Each one of you showing any real debate in here is quite talented. Heck, I'd love to work with any and all of you making a game if you're interested. Graal is useless, dead, and going further down the **** hole. There's a time when you just say; You know what? I am better than this, I'm moving on.

Each one of you, except a few tards, are saying that basically, so just move on. And I forgot the one dude, but he's right, the best way is to stop coding, doing gfx, and such. It's not rebelling against upper management because you're not an employee ... you're just some dirt bag to them. Besides the fact its far worse to be retarded and let yourself and your talent get used than to "stick it to the man".
Thanks.

Those words just gave me the extra push to forever quit what I had been working on for months.
  #117  
Old 06-25-2011, 06:34 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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Thanks.

Those words just gave me the extra push to forever quit what I had been working on for months.
You're taking encouragement from one of the biggest idiots
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  #118  
Old 06-25-2011, 07:09 AM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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You're taking encouragement from one of the biggest idiots
And the non-ad-hominem view:

Graal is a good platform for starting out, meeting people, and having fun. I don't think it's dead, useless, or going into the ground.

But, it has major problems, including ones that are core to its model and might not be fixed. Leaving could be the right choice.

All this said, it is best to not make decisions when you're burned out or annoyed about something. Often resting on an idea can lead to a choice you'll be happier with in the future.
  #119  
Old 06-25-2011, 01:36 PM
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I think this topic has been discussed enough now. I hope players still have fun playing the game and creating servers and developing. If there is content which has been used without authorization then please contact us.
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