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  #16  
Old 07-03-2009, 11:06 AM
LordSquirt LordSquirt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
when it comes to Era's economy, you have no idea what you're talking about.

auctioning off items is probably one of the most ineffective methods in an attempt to take money out of the economy. I've proved this several times before but nobody likes to listen to me.

money isn't the only thing offered in a trade these days. you may take 300k out of the economy by auctioning off an item, but what you fail to realize is that instead of that player having 300k in cash, he now has an item that's worth 300k which he can still use to trade for expensive items. in the end you're not really accomplishing anything.

if you really want to take money out of the economy you need to introduce items for players to buy that are non-durable, and make sure it's something that it's something that players will want to buy and constantly buy.

guns are durable goods. they last forever unless you destroy them which is unlikely to happen. you buy a gun for 100k, you'll always have that gun and it'll be worth 100k. grenades aren't durable goods. you use them and they're gone. if you spend 100k on grenades, eventually you'll use them all. you just spent 100k and after using all the grenades you no longer have 100k worth in grenades. this truly deletes 100k out of the economy instead of just replacing 100k with an item that's worth 100k.

pyro tech items are pretty much the perfect example of what I'm talking about. if you create multiple different money sinks where people spend their money on certain items and those items eventually are used up and disappear, there will be a greater effect on the money supply.
I don't believe that's true. Even if we auction off items for a certain price, who says that price can't go down? Like we proved before not all prices are set and they can change overtime. Who says the price of that item won't go down in the future since there's less money in the economy. While yes, usable items for only a limited amount of times is good it and perhaps the best way it isn't the only. Also, we've been adding non durable items into the EC shop since there has been a few problems in regards with EC as well.
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2009, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by grawlgamer View Post
And one thing that really pissed me off, I bought Assassin's Creed a week before they halved the price.
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you're so evil, graal doesnt need persons like you, you should get global ban
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2009, 03:58 PM
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I have to go with R.W. on this one.
I say we have more auctions. The economy on Era is just screwed up. Everyone has well over 1 million now and it doesn't really make sense.
Also, I have seen Masa on about 2 times. I am still waiting for him to go online to actually ask him something. I go on every morning about 9 AM just to see who is online. I even sometimes stay up all night, and I still don't recall seeing Masa online.
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  #19  
Old 07-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Gambet Gambet is offline
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I have about 40 cents of change in my wallet...is that enough? I mean, the title says Era needs change just not how much!
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2009, 06:11 PM
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Ask Chris to post the bank accounts with the most last time no one had near 1mil even. Mp40 is still 70k. Prices only drop when there is an influx of the gun into the economy(smgpk) or someone intentionally attempts to ddrop the price.(ex: sales was selling deagles 50k each). If you want to talk about drop the mp40 went from 200k to 85k in one week. People only think mp40 sells for 50k because I sold mine for 55k because I needed some cash
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:16 PM
Frankie Frankie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquirt View Post
I don't believe that's true. Even if we auction off items for a certain price, who says that price can't go down? Like we proved before not all prices are set and they can change overtime. Who says the price of that item won't go down in the future since there's less money in the economy. While yes, usable items for only a limited amount of times is good it and perhaps the best way it isn't the only. Also, we've been adding non durable items into the EC shop since there has been a few problems in regards with EC as well.
are you going to use methods that might lower prices or use methods that will lower prices? I've seen the administration, numerous times, use the auction house as a method to remove money out of the economy before you probably even touched Era. I can guarantee that you're better off without it.

besides, I don't believe your theory is true either. lets stop using the word "price" and use the word "value" instead.

if players don't have the cash to buy a certain weapon, they will throw in other items in the trade to reach the value of the weapon they are buying. do you think players will actually think, "hey, there's less money in the economy! I'm going to sell my items for less now." not exactly.. if a player wants to sell his gun for 1 million, but nobody on the server has 1 million in cash, he's most likely going to accept maybe 600k and a bunch of other items to match the value of 1 million. it's basically the same thing.

what happened with the mp40 is sheer coincidence in my opinion. what about other guns that are more expensive than the mp40? how could your auctions effect only one gun but not other guns? it doesn't make sense at all.

but what really happened? CharlieM is exactly right. it only takes 1 person to screw up the price. if CharlieM advertises that he's selling an mp40 for 55k, then when the next person advertises that he's selling one for 200k, players will say, "well, some guy earlier was selling for 55k.." and then word of mouth goes around and eventually the price drops.

hypothetically speaking, if those auctions did in fact lower the price of the mp40, who says it can't go back up? what if the gun is buffed? the price will sky rocket. you can argue "who says the price can't go down?" but I can throw the same argument right back at you.

auctions are no good for the economy. but hey, I'm not in charge here. go ahead and do what you guys want, but I suggest you listen to what I have to say or else you're going to wind up screwing the economy after the reset since you guys think you have it all right.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:26 PM
salesman salesman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
A lot of people say resetting the server is the way to go, but the economic problem will just repeat itself. Era is in a loop. Though resetting will provide a short-term solution to the problem. We are just going to see the same situation sometime later on in the future, followed by another annoying reset . In my eyes, a reset would be pointless unless a plan for a better economic system is developed first.
Nobody is going to reset the server without fixing all of the problems that have put Era in the state it is in now. Why do you think it hasn't been reset yet? It has been talked about for a long time, but we realize that it won't fix anything just yet.

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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Here go a couple of my ideas for a better economy on Era:

Fixed prices for guns:
A big reason why the richer players overshadow the other players as much as they do is because they know how to trade well and make a profits off trading. Era should not be mainly a bartering-for-profit server. This is especially true for the newcomers not knowing what to do. How would you feel if you were a new player and your working your ass off spending hours to make 10k, when other players around you are shooting you as soon as you leave 'unstick me' with guns worth 200k, 300k, and beyond? Guns they earned simply by trading and having connections?
The reason there's such a large money gap and so much money in the economy is because of duping and spawning incidents in the past. Before duping, the economy really wasn't that bad. People actually earned things by working. There were a few bad decisions and problems, but it was mainly duping that threw off the balance.

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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Gun prices are fluctuating by the week and this is a big problem. For example, weeks back I remember an MP40 was around 70-80k. Today, people are telling me that it is worth about 50k now. Wtf? This is should not be happening. My suggestion is that Era have more gun stores that sell guns with fixed prices. This way people will actually have to work for their money instead of hustling and manipulating other players who don't know any better for profit. And to keep rare guns rare, the NPC-Server can just spawn one or two of these guns every so often, but not enough for the weapon to lose value.
Squirt is right. A LOT of money has been removed from the economy which would definitely cause prices to drop. A few months ago there was players with cash in the millions, but now, not a single person has over one mil in the bank.

In response to Frankie's post: Even if the value is retained in an item when it is auctioned off, if nobody has enough money to rebuy that item for its "value", eventually it will drop in price. Mission accomplished.


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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Higher paying jobs:
Lets face it, you didn't mine or pick flowers to earn that 1 mil to buy that Metal Storm (if its even worth a million dollars right now). Newcomers have no idea how to make the good money like the more experienced Era players do. Era could have such a bigger player base if it was more newb friendly. Honestly if I was a new player and I saw how long it took to make just 1k off picking those flowers. I would quit. Which is why I believe jobs should pay a lot more then they do now. This would be compatible with the fixed guns price system as better guns would be more accessible. Current jobs on take way too much time to make good money, and we have a business system that is being used ineffectively.
As someone has already said, higher paying jobs will not solve anything. Putting more money into the economy just causes prices to rise.

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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Better management with guns:
Era needs a lot more guns. Period.
I'm not really a fan of the way guns are normally released...but I agree that there needs to be more of a variety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Taxes and Interest:
Periodically, depending on how staff feel the economy is doing, bank accounts should be either taxed or given interest by a fixed percentage. Business safes should be taxed as well. This should help keep the economy in equilibrium.
Taxing bank accounts is an extremely lazy way to remove money from the economy and shouldn't be considered an "idea" at all. Instead, there needs to be more "money-sinks". Things players can spend their money on. Things that don't last forever, or novelty items.

As far as interest goes, It's seems pretty counter-productive to encourage players to save their money instead of getting involved in the game.

Businesses are already taxed heavily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
And a better staff team:
Lets face it we don't have the best staff team.
Speak for yourself, or atleast provide some examples of why you feel this way. "Best" is a relative term, what are you comparing us to? The current staff team has it's pros and cons, but it's far better than what we've had in the past. Change is coming, and a lot is planned -- I promise you that. You might also be surprised to hear that we actually know what we're doing

off-topic: what happened to you anyways? I never really heard why you stopped working on Era...did you quit?

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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
We are told to contact GP's when we have a problem. But what if the only GP is Squirt? Your screwed aren't you?

Or what about if you have a question PM a FAQ? There have been many times where I have asked a FAQ a question and they had no idea what the answer was."
I'm just a developer but I always see GPs online and helping players. Squirt in particular is always reversing trades, checking logs, and banning noobs.

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Originally Posted by Rapidwolve View Post
Levels team? What do they do? I don't see any new levels or quests? Do you?
Not going to argue with you here...there hasn't really been much assigned to the levels team, but I'm hoping that will change soon whenever they begin working on a new gmap.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Frankie Frankie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salesman
In response to Frankie's post: Even if the value is retained in an item when it is auctioned off, if nobody has enough money to rebuy that item for its "value", eventually it will drop in price. Mission accomplished.
did you even read my post? lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
if players don't have the cash to buy a certain weapon, they will throw in other items in the trade to reach the value of the weapon they are buying. do you think players will actually think, "hey, there's less money in the economy! I'm going to sell my items for less now." not exactly.. if a player wants to sell his gun for 1 million, but nobody on the server has 1 million in cash, he's most likely going to accept maybe 600k and a bunch of other items to match the value of 1 million. it's basically the same thing.
items have value. you guys are so focused on a few numbers in someone's atm account. look beyond that. look at their assets. those effect the economy just as much as money does.

besides, it's still not clear that you lowered the mp40 price by auctions. if you're taking so much out of the economy, EVERYTHING drops in price. not just a ****ing single gun. so no, mission not accomplished.
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  #24  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:53 PM
salesman salesman is offline
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No, I didn't read it. I was referring to your other post. You posted that one while I was typing my own.

MP40 isn't the only gun that has dropped in price. Whoever said that isn't very informed. Fact is, just about everything has dropped. I'm not saying that auctions are saving the economy, but making players spend their money (such as through auctions) is certainly lowering prices.
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:54 PM
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The way i see it is that theres
Money value
and
Item value.
I understand how Frankie is putting it, and it makes sense
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  #26  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:56 PM
Frankie Frankie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
No, I didn't read it. I was referring to your other post. You posted that one while I was typing my own.

MP40 isn't the only gun that has dropped in price. Whoever said that isn't very informed. Fact is, just about everything has dropped. I'm not saying that auctions are saving the economy, but making players spend their money (such as through auctions) is certainly lowering prices.
spending money is good, but like I said, permanent (durable goods) = bad news bears when it comes to money sinks.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
spending money is good, but like I said, permanent (durable goods) = bad news bears when it comes to money sinks.
Yea I agree. I'm not really arguing you with except when you say that item-values haven't lowered as a result of money being removed from the economy...and auctions have clearly removed money from the economy (particularly ones that sell things already circulating). It may not be the best way to do things, but it has worked.

It's far cheaper to get your hands on things than it was a few months ago.
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  #28  
Old 07-03-2009, 08:58 PM
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It hasn't been reset yet cuz you all suck.
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2009, 09:06 PM
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It hasn't been reset yet cuz you all suck.
Yeah, you're right. It has nothing to do with wanting to be ready or anything.

The whole "we're going to reset the server!!!" statement wasn't even our mess. It was just passed down to us by previous staff teams. Not trying to play the blame game or anything, but if it hadn't already been promised by someone else, I would never have mentioned a reset until being ready.
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  #30  
Old 07-03-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pelikano View Post
It hasn't been reset yet cuz you all suck.
Maybe because resetting it without fixing these economic problems that have plagued Era since its creation won't solve a thing.

It's a quick fix that doesn't last. It'll lower stuff for a short time, but until something's done (like making guns break...not a huge fan of the idea, but something like that would help the economy) that actually addresses the problems, it's only a matter of time until we're right back where we are today.
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