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  #76  
Old 08-25-2009, 03:48 AM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
If CJ isn't going to be developing anymore servers, and the task is indeed left to us, then why not give us easier ways to do so (such as not requiring us to upgrade just to work on UC servers)?
Well, the way I see it is that prices didn't increase arbitrarily. If Stefan and Unixmad are just trying to make ends meet, they wouldn't hike up prices for no reason. I have faith that didn't do that. So, we have to assume that costs rose, and we have to assume that people upgrading their accounts to work on UC servers helps zero out the balance sheet (accounting terms, but you get the idea).

If people no longer have to upgrade their accounts, then that stream of revenue is going to have to come from somewhere else.. meaning basic account upgrade prices are going to increase, or servers are going to be more expensive to rent, or both.

For every yin, there is a yang. For ever dollar UC developers don't have to pay, regular players or server owners are going to have to pay an extra dollar.

Needless to say, there are 6 servers developers can work on, without having to upgrade... if they have Lifetime Classic, anyways. Valikorlia is always looking for LATs and GATs.
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  #77  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:12 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Needless to say, there are 6 servers developers can work on, without having to upgrade... if they have Lifetime Classic, anyways. Valikorlia is always looking for LATs and GATs.
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  #78  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:34 PM
cyan3 cyan3 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Needless to say, there are 6 servers developers can work on, without having to upgrade... if they have Lifetime Classic, anyways. Valikorlia is always looking for LATs and GATs.
It is possible to work on 8 servers with lifetime classic if you count both Graal Kingdoms and Zone.
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  #79  
Old 08-25-2009, 08:09 PM
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It is possible to work on 8 servers with lifetime classic if you count both Graal Kingdoms and Zone.
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  #80  
Old 08-26-2009, 05:23 AM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Well, the way I see it is that prices didn't increase arbitrarily. If Stefan and Unixmad are just trying to make ends meet, they wouldn't hike up prices for no reason. I have faith that didn't do that. So, we have to assume that costs rose, and we have to assume that people upgrading their accounts to work on UC servers helps zero out the balance sheet (accounting terms, but you get the idea).

If people no longer have to upgrade their accounts, then that stream of revenue is going to have to come from somewhere else.. meaning basic account upgrade prices are going to increase, or servers are going to be more expensive to rent, or both.

For every yin, there is a yang. For ever dollar UC developers don't have to pay, regular players or server owners are going to have to pay an extra dollar.

Needless to say, there are 6 servers developers can work on, without having to upgrade... if they have Lifetime Classic, anyways. Valikorlia is always looking for LATs and GATs.
I would want to assume they would make their money for uc worlds off how much people pay anyways. If they want to make ends meet somewhere, they could always hike up the price of a playerworld a bit and let the uc worlds be loginable for staff.

Also, I'm sure there are plenty of people whose interests lie in something different than the 6 classic servers you speak of.
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  #81  
Old 08-26-2009, 06:07 AM
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I'm in no way qualified to be giving business advice, but it's a very basic business strategy to offer one thing for cheap (or free) to encourage spending on another product. At a grocery store, pasta goes on sale, so you buy more tomato sauce. When Sony released the PS3 they took a loss on every PS3 they sold, because they expected to make up for that loss when customers purchased games for their new system. If players know that their friends won't need to upgrade to help them create a playerworld, they will be more likely to invest in a server.

Free developing, or better developer packages, could act as a "foot-in-the-door" for customers, as well. Not only might more developers lead to another popular server, but I'm sure people who are actively developing will end up upgrading anyways if/when they find a server they like. Happy customers are more willing to spend their money again.
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  #82  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:23 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
I'm in no way qualified to be giving business advice, but it's a very basic business strategy to offer one thing for cheap (or free) to encourage spending on another product. At a grocery store, pasta goes on sale, so you buy more tomato sauce. When Sony released the PS3 they took a loss on every PS3 they sold, because they expected to make up for that loss when customers purchased games for their new system. If players know that their friends won't need to upgrade to help them create a playerworld, they will be more likely to invest in a server.

Free developing, or better developer packages, could act as a "foot-in-the-door" for customers, as well. Not only might more developers lead to another popular server, but I'm sure people who are actively developing will end up upgrading anyways if/when they find a server they like. Happy customers are more willing to spend their money again.
GraalOnline is not Sony nor is it some supermarket chain. Based on Stefan's comments about just scraping by, I'm assuming it cannot sustain loses without shutting down.
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  #83  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:30 PM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
GraalOnline is not Sony nor is it some supermarket chain. Based on Stefan's comments about just scraping by, I'm assuming it cannot sustain loses without shutting down.
we could sure use some good solid content to bring up them sales huh? maybe get new people to start playing this video game again
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  #84  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:35 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
we could sure use some good solid content to bring up them sales huh? maybe get new people to start playing this video game again
Go right ahead, buddy-o.
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  #85  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
GraalOnline is not Sony nor is it some supermarket chain. Based on Stefan's comments about just scraping by, I'm assuming it cannot sustain loses without shutting down.
What expenses do you think they have other than server upkeep?
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  #86  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:50 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
What expenses do you think they have other than server upkeep?
Not that server upkeep isn't a major expense, but I would imagine at least some of what GraalOnline generates goes to feeding its owners... I'm not their accountant, though, so I can't say definitively. The point being that Sony was able to sell at loss because Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation. GraalOnline apparently just scrapes by on what it charges users.
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  #87  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Not that server upkeep isn't a major expense, but I would imagine at least some of what GraalOnline generates goes to feeding its owners... I'm not their accountant, though, so I can't say definitively. The point being that Sony was able to sell at loss because Sony is a multi-billion dollar corporation. GraalOnline apparently just scrapes by on what it charges users.
You took my example way too literally.

edit: Both are businesses nonetheless...it's not like I'm asking graal to sell 800 dollar systems for 500 dollars and pray for the best.
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  #88  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:14 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Go right ahead, buddy-o.
i'm a player not a developer

now what? ^__^
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  #89  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:21 AM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
You took my example way too literally.

edit: Both are businesses nonetheless...it's not like I'm asking graal to sell 800 dollar systems for 500 dollars and pray for the best.
No, you're just asking them to give away upgrades valued at $70+. It's not going to happen, unless prices are increased everywhere else, which is something I doubt you'll enjoy.

Anyways, here's a little tid-bit: if a server costs about $110 per year, with say 6 people working on it for a year, then that would be about $410 net income per year. When asking that developers be allowed to work on servers without upgrading, you are asking that Graal sell a $410 product for $110.

Edit: I guess the question is, would you be willing to pay more for your server, in order for people to be able to work there without upgrading?

Quote:
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i'm a player not a developer

now what? ^__^
Go learn.
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  #90  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
No, you're just asking them to give away upgrades valued at $70+. It's not going to happen, unless prices are increased everywhere else, which is something I doubt you'll enjoy.

Anyways, here's a little tid-bit: if a server costs about $110 per year, with say 6 people working on it for a year, then that would be about $410 net income per year. When asking that developers be allowed to work on servers without upgrading, you are asking that Graal sell a $410 product for $110.


Go learn.
Which is why I said jerret's suggestion about developer packages might be a better idea. There's so many things that they could do to better serve the developers who are making them money. Just a few things off the top of my head:
  • Upgrade once, lifetime developing on staff-only servers
  • Cheaper developer-only subcriptions for staff-only servers
  • Better packages (i.e. rent a server with 10 developer slots)
  • Free developing for anyone with a subcription on staff-only servers

My point is that something should be done to show some damn appreciation for the people who are putting bread on their table (since they are apparently only "scraping by"), and stop overcharging them to develop their game (without proper documentation, updated tools, etc -- hell, we're even doing that for them now, too)

I'm really not trying to come off so negative because I still enjoy developing...however, if things stay as they are now, I truly see our wimpy developer pool becoming even smaller in the future. I'm sure as hell never upgrading again unless something changes, and I'm know I'm not alone on that one.
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