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Old 12-22-2016, 08:18 PM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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Difficulty level

I've had a lot of people complain that it takes 20 minutes to make 1 gralat (not gonna debate the validity of these claims because it is possible that anecdotally someone without hands might have trouble pressing D). So, what I did was reset my account and did a playthrough of the game with no assistance from staff tools. My goal was to see how long it would take to get the diamond axe (which costs 400g + various crafted ores). It took approximately 2 weeks of casual gameplay. I remembered some of the old tricks, like placing a z-bomb on the bushes near the bakery to quickly get the wheat inside, or farming 3-4 apple trees at the same time. I realized that it's actually possible for players to make gralats incredibly efficiently by farming apples and making apple snow cones.

1 apple tree = 12 apples (sometimes you get a bonus apple). If you can farm 4 trees that's 48 apples. 1 apple snow cone pays 5 gralats and requires 1 bottle of milk and 2 apples. Milk is free and multiple cows can be farmed at once. Players can only hold 3 bottles. So every time you make the trip to farm 3 cows (takes 5 minutes tops) and make 3 apple snow cones, you make 15 gralats at the cost of 6 apples. 48 / 2 = 24 obviously, and 24 * 5 is 96. So all you have to do to make nearly 100g is farm 4 trees, and milk 24 cows. It's not hard, people are just babies who don't even try. It would be like if I watched the intro of a movie and then stopped watching, claiming the movie sucked because it's "too long".

So I spoke with some older players who are excited about the project, including Armored Ear. We both agree that the game would be much funner if players lose gralats when they die (like it was in the old days). I know, I know, I can sense people are shedding tears already. I remember losing my gralats back then and it was rough, but it made the game that much more rewarding. It gives players a reason to want to own a playerhouse.

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Old 12-23-2016, 03:19 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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everything you're saying is all well and good


in a fun a game that is worth the time

I don't play bomy island and I likely won't, so this isn't criticism so much as a unwarranted warning. casual gameplay mentality with graal is always at this stage going to be substantially different than casual gameplay on, say, WoW - or any other "real" online game. I personally believe that no matter how good and fun (subjective bullshit terms whose definitions are different to me than to you) a graal server can be, it can never be worth the effort of spending two weeks doing anything. any graal server, whether it's zodiac at its best or UN at is simplest is still just a casual game.


I'd personally like to be made to look wrong, so don't take it the wrong way. I just don't see Itagaki's very valid philosophy being compatible with graal players/potential players/future players, no matter how appealing it sounds to old/former players who remember it in a way that it will never again be
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:17 AM
Kiri Kiri is offline
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kia stole my whole paragraph and left me with nothing to say...
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:53 AM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
everything you're saying is all well and good


in a fun a game that is worth the time

I don't play bomy island and I likely won't, so this isn't criticism so much as a unwarranted warning. casual gameplay mentality with graal is always at this stage going to be substantially different than casual gameplay on, say, WoW - or any other "real" online game. I personally believe that no matter how good and fun (subjective bullshit terms whose definitions are different to me than to you) a graal server can be, it can never be worth the effort of spending two weeks doing anything. any graal server, whether it's zodiac at its best or UN at is simplest is still just a casual game.


I'd personally like to be made to look wrong, so don't take it the wrong way. I just don't see Itagaki's very valid philosophy being compatible with graal players/potential players/future players, no matter how appealing it sounds to old/former players who remember it in a way that it will never again be
That was pretty emo. I read this in the voice of Strong Sad from homestarrunner.com.

I'm not using Itagaki's design philosophy, or else there would be boob physics (unless that's what you guys want). I just thought the quote was palpably relevant.

The way you're in constant denial of the sheer possibility that Graal could be fun anymore outside of the tiny box it has become consisting of people idling at a central location reminds me of console fanboys arguing with each other, coming up with arduous logic to use in debate that makes no sense from the perspective of the actual developers. It's sophistry.

I've got a little time so I'll analyze your comment to try and clarify myself.

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everything you're saying is all well and good
Thanks.

Quote:
in a fun a game that is worth the time
Go on.

Quote:
I don't play bomy island and I likely won't, so this isn't criticism so much as a unwarranted warning.
It seems to me like you just want to say something negative, come on man. You've made a critical assumption in this sentence, and that assumption is that the project isn't even worth your prestigious time of day. That's extremely critical, but please go on:

Quote:
casual gameplay mentality with graal is always at this stage going to be substantially different than casual gameplay on, say, WoW - or any other "real" online game.
This is no true scotsman fallacy. Graal2001 is actually a really historic game in the MMO genre, but according to you only certain high budget wankfest games are "real". I don't agree with the way you're looking at video games. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but all video games are real video games, unless they aren't video games.

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I personally believe that no matter how good and fun (subjective bullshit terms whose definitions are different to me than to you) a graal server can be, it can never be worth the effort of spending two weeks doing anything.
Okay so I must admit I had to take a breather after laughing at this catastrophic load of masturbatory nonsense. Holy cow man, lay off the abilify.

Using your own definitions for the words good and fun reeeeally demonstrates how playing a server for two weeks would never be worth the effort to you, doesn't it? What are you even saying here? YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING GRAAL FOR OVER A DECADE. Nice logic bro, you're really getting through to me. I am seeing things for the first time now that you have shown me your ways. Dude I can not stop laughing about this right now, this is absolute gold.

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any graal server, whether it's zodiac at its best or UN at is simplest is still just a casual game.
Agreed.

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I'd personally like to be made to look wrong, so don't take it the wrong way.
You're not wrong. The stuff you typed is incoherent non-sequitur, it doesn't even make sense.
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Last edited by Kamaeru; 12-23-2016 at 06:17 AM..
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:12 AM
Kiri Kiri is offline
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i respect your hard work for the server but i agree with kia's post.

bomy island isn't appealing enough to justify grinding 2 weeks for a profession tool, even the popular zodiac and era has reduced the grind greatly despite it being less grindy than this server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaeru View Post
I've had a lot of people complain that it takes 20
what timezone are the players active in?

this was three weeks ago


this was two weeks ago, taken 3 hours earlier.

Last edited by Kiri; 12-23-2016 at 10:30 AM..
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2016, 02:20 PM
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this was three weeks ago
nice zod in the background big boy
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:28 PM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
I'm trying guys!
That was anecdotal evidence, just because there are dead times on a server that is under construction on the development list doesn't mean nobody ever plays.

Also, you agree with kia on what? That entire post was non-sequitur, nothing there to agree or disagree with! Maybe if you started playing Graal some time before 2016 you would have the slightest perspective on what I'm even talking about here. The topic of discussion is difficulty level, and since I had a good point about it you guys are going nuts trying to change the topic and defame my server. I don't even have to try to make Zodiac look bad, have you seen the level design and graphics there? Everything is puke green.

Also I could have taken a screenshot of a few months back when Bomy Island had more players than Zodiac. It's anecdotal evidence, and not even commentary about the difficulty level of the server so I don't know why you guys keep thinking you're debunking this thread with complete non-sequitur posts that don't follow.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:11 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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okay sorry for playing the devil's advocate, bomy island will be perfect and every decision you make is objectively the right one

thank you for convincing me that you are the true herald of not just graal's, but the entire video game industry's renaissance












also don't you ever call anyone else masturbatory you hypocritical **** knuckle, go bury yourself back into your waste of time autistic pet project before either it or you burn out faster than a bonfire on thor's ass, and don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on your back when hit a 20~ player count a week after you launch, it won't last longer than two months and you'll blame everyone but yourself



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It seems to me like you just want to say something negative, come on man.
I'm only going to respond to this because otherwise I could be taking a **** or something much more worth my time, but no, I didn't. I actually want to be made to look wrong, I want bomy island or any ambitious graal server to be successful, but I very unfortunately don't see it happening. I've personally known people with the resources and ambition that should've carried them wherever they wanted fall apart and I truly hate it for them. I wanted to say nothing but positives, just with the caveat that I personally don't have faith in them being worth the effort. But any respect I had for that ambition that I wanted to attribute to you and your project is gone, so now I will say something negative - you'll fail. Quote me on, put it in your NPC server's log in message, I don't give a ****. "You'll fail" - zojo, dec. 2016, fight me.
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Last edited by kia345; 12-24-2016 at 01:17 AM.. Reason: it's 2016, not 1016
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:16 AM
Tru_Entropy Tru_Entropy is offline
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... I don't even have to try to make Zodiac look bad, have you seen the level design and graphics there? Everything is puke green.
Bomy Island is the Cleveland of Graal servers though.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:31 AM
Megiddo Megiddo is offline
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I don't even have to try to make Zodiac look bad, have you seen the level design and graphics there? Everything is puke green.
Ah yes, what a truly well thought out and well presented argument.
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Old 12-24-2016, 06:09 AM
maximus_asinus maximus_asinus is offline
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This thread should be closed.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:31 AM
LimetasticSlushy LimetasticSlushy is offline
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The problem is, if you enable dropping gralats on death, you will have to do something about the fact that there is a finite amount of player homes in which you can store your precious money. I would strongly recommend having a bank or even multiple to make sure players have access to a way of protecting their cash.
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:37 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Ah yes, what a truly well thought out and well presented argument.
u think zod is nice?
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:26 PM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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The problem is, if you enable dropping gralats on death, you will have to do something about the fact that there is a finite amount of player homes in which you can store your precious money. I would strongly recommend having a bank or even multiple to make sure players have access to a way of protecting their cash.
Yeah I thought of that too, and it's possible I will have extra options other than playerhouses for securing gralats.
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:30 PM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
...you hypocritical **** knuckle, go bury yourself back into your waste of time autistic pet project before either it or you burn out faster than a bonfire on thor's ass, and don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on your back when hit a 20~ player count a week after you launch, it won't last longer than two months and you'll blame everyone but yourself


otherwise I could be taking a **** or something

I actually want to be made to look wrong

I want bomy island or any ambitious graal server to be successful

any respect I had for that ambition that I wanted to attribute to you and your project is gone

I don't give a ****. "You'll fail" - zojo , dec. 2016, fight me.
You realize I made this thread to get people to cry as hard as possible right?
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