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  #106  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:45 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Graal is not a game engine. Go have a look at the website, and ask someone for a link to their engine's website. Once you've done that try to suggest otherwise, because the actual company is undermining your argument.
What makes you think that Graal is not a game engine? The fact that it advertises Zone, GK and Skills? Please, Rufus, be a little realistic. Playerworlds are the bulk of Graal. People use Graal (GS2 + GraalEditor + GraalShop + Graal Client) to create these playerworlds. Graal is very much a game engine. It just so happens that the company that made it used it to create a few games.
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  #107  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
What makes you think that Graal is not a game engine? The fact that it advertises Zone, GK and Skills? Please, Rufus, be a little realistic. Playerworlds are the bulk of Graal. People use Graal (GS2 + GraalEditor + GraalShop + Graal Client) to create these playerworlds. Graal is very much a game engine. It just so happens that the company that made it used it to create a few games.
/thread


Thank god that someone else see Graal for what it really is.
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  #108  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:09 AM
Stephen Stephen is offline
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Graal is an engine, indeed - but, in agreement with Rufus... it's being presented as a game - even though they're putting most of their effort right now into making it flexible and cross platform so large businesses will consider licensing the engine (servers) or even the product (e.g. "Graal Online: Asia").
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
It is?
Relatively speaking; in comparison to the game, yes.

To clarify some of misconceptions mentioned on the last page - you're not "working for them", you're paying for access to their engine so you may develop your own content. If you happen to be developing content you don't like "for" someone... it was, most likely, under your own decision

They're not asking anyone to advertise for them, and they're certainly not paying for advertising. But I think it's perfectly reasonable for a group of individuals who are interested in advertising Graal to pursue the idea.
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  #109  
Old 01-22-2009, 04:36 AM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Well, I agree with Rufus and Stephen here on most points.

However:


Graal currently is marketed as a game, and most people play it for the game (i.e., not everyone on a server is developing).

To specify the problem though, the marketing does not emphasize the community-driven servers. I think this is where it breaks down the most.

If Cyberjouers were to show that everything is made by players for the players, it may prove to be more effective than advertising the gold servers, the skills game, and a whole bunch of other stuff that will only avert attention away from what basically made Graal successful in the first place (playerworlds).


As Stephen said, Graal is only "thinning" their market by trying to appeal to multiple niches; they only end up neglecting them all in the process.

In terms of which niche has more potential (gold servers, playerworlds, skills, iphone, 3d), that's another argument.


The fact of the matter is that Cyberjouers has to focus on a niche if they want to get a stable and large playerbase (which is essential in any MMORPG).

Last edited by WhiteDragon; 01-22-2009 at 08:48 PM..
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  #110  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:17 PM
xXziroXx xXziroXx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Graal currently is marketed as a game, and most people play it for the game (i.e., not everyone on a server is developing).
No it's not, look on their website - they are promoting their servers, says nothing about Graal being a game.
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  #111  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:51 PM
Cloven Cloven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
No it's not, look on their website - they are promoting their servers, says nothing about Graal being a game.
You can't possibly be that delusional. The reality of the situation is that if you look at the homepage (graalonline.com) it is in fact listed as a game all over the place. Only once is the ability to create your own mentioned. Even after clicking on one of the main selections of the page for more information, the aspect of Graal that receives priority in descriptions tells us that it's a game that secondarily offers custom creation features. I'd say in this case that common sense disproves your shortsighted theory.
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  #112  
Old 01-22-2009, 06:01 PM
xXziroXx xXziroXx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloven View Post
You can't possibly be that delusional. The reality of the situation is that if you look at the homepage (graalonline.com) it is in fact listed as a game all over the place. Only once is the ability to create your own mentioned. Even after clicking on one of the main selections of the page for more information, the aspect of Graal that receives priority in descriptions tells us that it's a game that secondarily offers custom creation features. I'd say in this case that common sense disproves your shortsighted theory.
GraalOnline.com.


First impressions:

Graal Zone: A futuristic 2D battle game
Playerworlds: Create your own game
Graal Skills: Huge resource of casual games
Graal Kingdoms: An adventurous MMORPG


I'm the one with the shortsighted theory? I just think the majority of us oldbies are overlooking Graal's new marketing strategy, because we're too stuck in the early days of it.

Graal is being advertised as a game portal, and most of you are too blind or ignorant to see it.
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  #113  
Old 01-22-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
GraalOnline.com.


First impressions:

Graal Zone: A futuristic 2D battle game
Playerworlds: Create your own game
Graal Skills: Huge resource of casual games
Graal Kingdoms: An adventurous MMORPG


I'm the one with the shortsighted theory? I just think the majority of us oldbies are overlooking Graal's new marketing strategy, because we're too stuck in the early days of it.

Graal is being advertised as a game portal, and most of you are too blind or ignorant to see it.
I'm not oblivious to Graal's current marketing strategy because I'm an oldbie. I'm just calling it like I see it: A game first, development platform second.

Even while the majority of your post reinforces my original statement you falsely attempt to call others blind and/or ignorant. In your case, I suppose there are just none so blind as he who will not see.
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  #114  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
I'm the one with the shortsighted theory? I just think the majority of us oldbies are overlooking Graal's new marketing strategy, because we're too stuck in the early days of it.
How many new players join Graal to play it as a game? How many new players join it to develop content? How many new players join to play Graal as a game but get worn down by the lack of content and end up being forced to develop in order to have fun? Hell, even I did and I'm not a new player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Graal is being advertised as a game portal, and most of you are too blind or ignorant to see it.
Rofl.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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  #115  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:16 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
No it's not, look on their website - they are promoting their servers, says nothing about Graal being a game.
I think you are just arguing about semantics. My point was that CyberJouers markets "playing", and that most people are here to "play".

Whether it be a series of games, a game portal, or a game.

Either way, that wasn't at all the point of my post, I was just trying to point out I am writing under that analysis of CyberJouers' current marketing strategy.
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  #116  
Old 01-26-2009, 11:25 AM
MiniOne MiniOne is offline
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I would like to mention that you guys are going off topic by arguing about what kind of service graal is (game, engine or whatever you guys said) This thread was made to talk about the advertisement of Graal which would greatly help, even if it was just some words and a picture on some random game site, even the smallest ads to attract any amount of players is good and if people want to put their own time into it they can, not as if anyone has been forced upon to do this. Right?

If Stefan and his team are too lazy to make advertisements for their own game then its their problem because it will cause them to earn less and have a lower player count which isn't our problem (if we don't want to help then why have it as one of our problems?) though it may affect us in many ways, with the server eventually going down but it isn't our fault (because we decided not to contribute our own little parts into a enjoyable game, engine whatever it is) but if we can contribute in our own ways to helping the game then why not? (it isn't our responsibility but we should still contribute to a game which we all have enjoyed.)

Anyway I'm saying that Graal can be advertised by us as much as it can be by Stefan and his team, it isn't neither their responsibility nor ours but a choice we make to help benefit a once great game which can be made great again with contributions from both us and stefan's team.

As for the website it should be fixed and merged together to show Graal Gold Services as the main attraction along with the playerworlds and being able to develop in the background as a bonus you get with playing Graal and even the crappy little pixel characters may suck and look like ulgy pieces of ****s it won't matter it just depends on how you decide to show it, you can make crappy little pixels look good by adding them to certain situations and using your imaginations a bit, I would be more then happy to contribute to a new website picture if wanted.
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  #117  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:42 AM
TheSpude_P2P TheSpude_P2P is offline
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This is all really good! Too bad unixmad and Stefan and whoever else don't care! They just make you pay to work and make servers for their own benefit. Everyone who develops and works for a server is a slave! Muahahaha! If I had it my way all player owned servers would be free and all servers developed by the games creators would quite possibly be actual good servers. Oh, and yes I would give lifetime playerworld access! (But of course the servers created by graalonline would be considered gold servers so you would have to pay for gold. AND THEY WOULD BE GOOD SERVERS! = D)
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  #118  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:47 AM
Stephen Stephen is offline
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Originally Posted by TheSpude_P2P View Post
This is all really good! Too bad unixmad and Stefan and whoever else don't care! They just make you pay to work and make servers for their own benefit. Everyone who develops and works for a server is a slave! Muahahaha! If I had it my way all player owned servers would be free and all servers developed by the games creators would quite possibly be actual good servers. Oh, and yes I would give lifetime playerworld access! (But of course the servers created by graalonline would be considered gold servers so you would have to pay for gold. AND THEY WOULD BE GOOD SERVERS! = D)
And then we would all join hands, in a circle of peace which encompasses the globe.


rite?
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  #119  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:50 AM
TheSpude_P2P TheSpude_P2P is offline
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Only if GraalOnline agrees to work and create the "join hands" gani. But that might be too much work for them. : [
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  #120  
Old 02-02-2009, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpude_P2P View Post
If I had it my way all player owned servers would be free and all servers developed by the games creators would quite possibly be actual good servers. Oh, and yes I would give lifetime playerworld access! (But of course the servers created by graalonline would be considered gold servers so you would have to pay for gold. AND THEY WOULD BE GOOD SERVERS! = D)
Before Graal went full P2P this was the system in place. Gold servers were developed by Graal Online, the others were Classic (free). Of course there were other perks to being Gold (no wait times on certain servers to log in, and Gold servers had access to certain script commands not available to anyone else). Too bad this wasn't enough to keep them afloat.
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