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  #31  
Old 08-22-2009, 06:16 PM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
This is one of the better posts I've read for a while - people need to realize that they aren't completely incompetent without CJ holding their hand.

Use the tools you've been given, instead of complaining about the things that doesn't exist.
while i agree, there are still things CJ could be doing better. they could release their own content while still making graal a development platform, while still breaking into the mobile market. you can't tell me that, if CJ wanted, they couldn't bring together some talented developers and create a new server for people to play - because honestly, with the pessimism and lack of motivation from players and developers, while it may be up to us to make our own content and "our own game" almost everything being created by players will never be used on graal, and never reach the classic tab, or god forbid the gold tab. not to mention the fact that a lot of people are not developers and play graal because it's a video game, not a development platform (for them). i don't see why developers should be taken care of with updates and new tools, and the players are left in the dust while those developers stumble about trying to create something in a spread out, unmotivated environment. shouldn't the players be given some direct CJ updates and content too? don't they matter just as much as the developers? don't they also pay for this game?

i mean seriously, when was the last time a new server was released?
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  #32  
Old 08-22-2009, 06:46 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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It's not, and never has been, Stefan's job (nor anybody else's job) to make the servers you play on. Classic servers are made and run by staff. So if there's a feature you want, you need to talk to the staff. If there's a feature developers want, then that's where asking Stefan comes in to play. Although, plenty of things in the Future Improvements forum are things that could be scripted, rather than things that must be put in the core. (copyfile(), anchoring come to mind.)

For the player-side of things, there are really only client updates, to make the game run smoother. This is already being done. Everything else is for the developers, because Graal is a development platform. It's up to staff to make the games; it's not GraalOnline's responsibility.

Also, if a server doesn't make Classic, then it's for a reason. There's no conspiracy preventing UC servers from being quality servers.
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  #33  
Old 08-22-2009, 09:06 PM
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Should have found out by now, that the word free doesnt make it very far around these parts.
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  #34  
Old 08-22-2009, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
For the player-side of things, there are really only client updates, to make the game run smoother. This is already being done. Everything else is for the developers, because Graal is a development platform. It's up to staff to make the games; it's not GraalOnline's responsibility.
it's this exact type of thinking that creates so much negativity and makes people unmotivated. if you're saying it's not CJ's responsibility to make their game worth paying for by keeping it full of fun content to play on, and their only job is to make little updates here and there, then maybe development really should be free - most players bought graal because it was a MMO, not because it was a development platform. only up until development became a bigger source of income did the focus switch, and you can see what it's done to graal so far (minus all the idiotic CJ-doesn't care conspirators and things-are-only-for-money mongers, those aren't exactly true)

i don't know when we all got around to thinking in this fashion, but it certainly was not how graal was originally, and it certainly isn't making the game more popular with it's core players. all of the most popular servers have been made by CJ (read: stefan) - correlation?
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  #35  
Old 08-22-2009, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Use the tools you've been given, instead of complaining about the things that doesn't exist.
The tools? We barely have any tools, and it's not like we can improve the scripting engine. Stefan has seen fit to ban anyone attempting to make their own RC, yet he stubbornly refuses to update ours. Developers are truly scammed by Graal. The only reason I continue to upgrade is because I enjoy developing, but lately I've been getting even more annoyed about the huge lack of client updates, so that could change.
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  #36  
Old 08-22-2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
Last I recall, it only took the Tank game creator ~3-4 months before he quit his job and lived off of the loads of 99c purchases people had made, giving him at the time ~$240,000
Maybe if that happened with graal, we would never have to pay for a server again. -_-

Then again...if that did happen, we would probably still have to pay for servers just because...
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
The tools? We barely have any tools, and it's not like we can improve the scripting engine.
Way to take the word tools literally. Everything you have - be in GraalShop, GraalEditor, RC, scripting engine, serverlister - whatever, can be used to make some truly unique worlds.

Lately people have been complaining about how they can't do this and that, but what they fail to do in the process, is to look at what they can do.

Updates takes time, but we do see them from time to time. If you're not happy, the choise is yours to leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
The only reason I continue to upgrade is because I enjoy developing, but lately I've been getting even more annoyed about the huge lack of client updates, so that could change.
Cyberjoueurs provide you with development tools to do what you enjoy, there is no where stated that they have to build onto what they're already providing - the things that are here is what you yourself paied for after all.


I've said it once, and I'll gladly say it again. Not happy? Then leave. Stop expecting so god damn much and do what you can with what you have.
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:19 AM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
it's this exact type of thinking that creates so much negativity and makes people unmotivated. if you're saying it's not CJ's responsibility to make their game worth paying for by keeping it full of fun content to play on, and their only job is to make little updates here and there, then maybe development really should be free - most players bought graal because it was a MMO, not because it was a development platform. only up until development became a bigger source of income did the focus switch, and you can see what it's done to graal so far (minus all the idiotic CJ-doesn't care conspirators and things-are-only-for-money mongers, those aren't exactly true)

i don't know when we all got around to thinking in this fashion, but it certainly was not how graal was originally, and it certainly isn't making the game more popular with it's core players. all of the most popular servers have been made by CJ (read: stefan) - correlation?
It's not "their game", ffs. It's our development platform. It's job of the server staff to make a game worth playing. People upgraded their accounts to play servers created by developers, not by GraalOnline. I don't get why you aren't understanding this.

Also, Zodiac and UN were made by Stefan? Really?
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  #39  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
It's not "their game", ffs. It's our development platform.
Indeed. To back it up, this is how CJ's advertisment looks like on GraalOnline.com:

Graal Zone: A futuristic 2D battle game
Playerworlds: Create your own game
Graal Skills: Huge ressource of casual games (note: Stefan has stated that this project was moved to iPhone instead, and that the current one on Graal is only kept around for who knows what reasons)
Graal Kingdoms: An adventurous MMORPG

Nowhere is GraalOnline as a whole advertised as a game - because it's not one anymore, and haven't been for a long time. It's a development platform where two of their own games and some playerworlds are being hosted.
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  #40  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
stop making them pay to develop your game.
This will not stop i guarantee it.

I agree with Ziro also. I personally feel that Graal is more known for being a development platform, rather than a MMORPG, and i get that vibe from years of waiting for some spectacular to give GraalOnline a 'boost' of some sort, but the only thing i've seen from Management are various Client updates, some helped Graal as a whole i guess, but a lot hurt it.
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  #41  
Old 08-23-2009, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
It's not "their game", ffs. It's our development platform. It's job of the server staff to make a game worth playing. People upgraded their accounts to play servers created by developers, not by GraalOnline. I don't get why you aren't understanding this.

Also, Zodiac and UN were made by Stefan? Really?
more like classic and g2k1, where the player population of each server was massive. you really think that servers like UN or zodiac are of those caliber, or any server where it was not just the community of people that made it awesome? you can't beat the ability the owner has over the developers

and back then, people bought accounts for those servers, not to develop. do you know how many more players there are than developers?
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2009, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
more like classic and g2k1, where the player population of each server was massive. you really think that servers like UN or zodiac are of those caliber, or any server where it was not just the community of people that made it awesome? you can't beat the ability the owner has over the developers

and back then, people bought accounts for those servers, not to develop. do you know how many more players there are than developers?
I think the forums gets that you think Graal was so great back then.. but this thread is about developers, developing for free not bringing up nostalgia.

Also, you can't really compare the "caliber" of servers of the past to the servers now, those were different times, different playercount, etc.
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2009, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Indeed. To back it up, this is how CJ's advertisment looks like on GraalOnline.com:

Graal Zone: A futuristic 2D battle game
Playerworlds: Create your own game
Graal Skills: Huge ressource of casual games (note: Stefan has stated that this project was moved to iPhone instead, and that the current one on Graal is only kept around for who knows what reasons)
Graal Kingdoms: An adventurous MMORPG

Nowhere is GraalOnline as a whole advertised as a game - because it's not one anymore, and haven't been for a long time. It's a development platform where two of their own games and some playerworlds are being hosted.
That is probably because the web site was terribly constructed.

You also kind of do realize a good portion of graal's playerbase doesn't develop? That's because they're not supposed to. Graal is advertised as a game--It's this style of thinking that has made Graal's playercount fall to a fifth of what it used to be 4+ years ago. Most of the servers now suck, and not the least bit enjoyable for a new player, and people don't have to develop just to enjoy this game or even pay for it.

Most of hiro's posts have been in the correct style of thinking from a consumer's point of view for graal so I am taking his side on this. Sorry if I misunderstood anything, but I am speaking out of my perception of the matter.

I do happen to think the purpose of this thread has went off in a tangent. Yes I do wish I did not have to pay to help some UC servers out, but apparently this hasn't been the case for years. I'd pay the 25 yearly thing for the previously known vip package, but that doesn't exist anymore. But y'know theyre not making more money off the quality of their game, so they gotta charge more somewhere.
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fowlplay4 View Post
I think the forums gets that you think Graal was so great back then.. but this thread is about developers, developing for free not bringing up nostalgia.

Also, you can't really compare the "caliber" of servers of the past to the servers now, those were different times, different playercount, etc.
i don't need the forums to tell me if it was awesome - i was there, i know what happened. it was better in my opinion, and i'm sure others share my opinion. i'm not trying to just bring up nostalgia - i'm making a point that if the player's are going to make the content, then they need to be supported 100 percent by CJ - or CJ should make the content themselves, and this i would prefer

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X View Post
That is probably because the web site was terribly constructed.

You also kind of do realize a good portion of graal's playerbase doesn't develop? That's because they're not supposed to. Graal is advertised as a game--It's this style of thinking that has made Graal's playercount fall to a fifth of what it used to be 4+ years ago. Most of the servers now suck and people don't have to develop just to enjoy this game or even pay for it.

Most of hiro's posts have been in the correct style of thinking from a consumer's point of view for graal so I am taking his side on this. Sorry if I misunderstood anything, but I am speaking out of my perception of the matter.

I do happen to think the purpose of this thread has went off in a tangent. Yes I do wish I did not have to pay to help some UC servers out, but apparently this hasn't been the case for years. I'd pay the 25 yearly thing for the previously known vip package, but that doesn't exist anymore. But y'know theyre not making more money off the quality of their game, so they gotta charge more somewhere.
it' very true that ever since graal took the standpoint of being a "development platform" after the boom of people wanting to develop servers, the population has been in decline, and most of the people who play graal are not optimistic about anything happening on graal at all - everything is stagnate
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:17 AM
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I think Stefan treats Graal as a development platform, that's what he updates it as, and he has already said he: doesn't plan on making it a full-out game; or making a lot of money from it (which I think are correlated).
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