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  #31  
Old 10-21-2011, 03:08 AM
MiniOne MiniOne is offline
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Snk the balancing issue is only concerned with BAR and Shipka. M4 and Famas can be beaten easily (in fact every other gun is fine but then again I don't get demonstrated many guns besides M4/BAR/Shipka in spars).
The issue is with the rate of fire on the guns, I believe if you slowed both the speeds down so it's possible to move between the shots then the guns would be fine. At the current state the guns shot way to fast, I would believe that every gun shouldn't be able to shot two shots so fast that you can't move between the bullets, simply nerf the fire speed so that its dodgable and it should be fine. Every other guns rate of fire can be moved between except for those two, that's why the other guns have problems facing them.
I sparred around 100 spars yesterday to see if it was really just because I suck, and I realized the only way to truly win against a BAR or a shipka is to play passive and hope your opponent makes errors. This means that spars are tedious and boring because you can't personally outplay your opponent due to dodging and timing shots. As far as PC Era is, all the guns on there I've seen have no issue with being dodged because none have excessively hire fire rates.

And about the pricing issue, PC has numerous more ways to making money and the amount they can make from just say a diamond is about $100 far exceeds that of the highest amount you can make from Era off one item (a shell for $8).

Andrew we both know that 99% of the iEra server are on admins ****s, its not like PC where there's constant complaints about staff. That's why even when staff make mistakes it usually goes unnoticed. Nothing you can do there.

Funny when I tried to contact Cloyd he server messaged "all shipka's have been removed and 20k has been added to your inventory" and a clear lie. I truly don't believe you take my suggestions seriously because the majority of times the replies from yourself and cloyd are that all guns have perfect balance and that there is no issue there. It would be nice if you could notice the change in the spar style of many players due to the release of those two guns.

I suggested Wil because his balance on PC Era was great in terms that any tier gun can compete against another tier and I believed that should be the case when it comes to any shooting games, its just that when it comes to Tier 1 vs Tier 3, yes Tier 3 should have a distinct advantage, but not to the extent that the bullets are undodgable and the chances of winning are extremely slim.

Anyway all I believe that needs to be done is reducing fire rates of Shipka and BAR so that you can slip between two shots (this applies to every gun), that way its a mix between skill/gun and so that anyone who is skilled enough to weave through bullets can win even if its a handgun vs a BAR. I do believe Cloyd can balance guns because overall the balance issue is fine besides those two guns.

New ways of earning money would be nice, and the clear difference in the amounts earned on PC and iEra are shown through the lottery. iEra you earn about $100 from lottery while PC if i remember correctly can go over $5000 (correct me if I'm wrong). And PC has a lot smaller playercount then iEra yet their lottery flocks out a lot more money.
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The pistols look like they have cancer, reduce the big buboe shaped thing's size.

Last edited by MiniOne; 10-21-2011 at 03:18 AM..
  #32  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:36 PM
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The comparisons to Era PC do no service to the thread.
From the start of iEra, guns have been different from Era PC.
Stefan had set the stats of the original guns (uzi, shotgun, handgun, ak47) and did not want those stats to be altered. These original guns were more powerful than their Era PC counterparts. In other words, Stefan had set the statistical starting point for guns at an irrevocably raised bar. Any future guns would have to be based around this statistical premise and be at least equal by comparison, otherwise there would be no incentive for players to purchase them.
Wil's "tier system" is not possible because it involves altering ALL guns. Stefan has strictly enforced that the "tier 1" (to use your terminology) category can not be altered.
If applied, the tier system would only narrow the gap of diversity among guns, which would eventually prompt a retrospective decision to increase the "top tier" stats again due to the lack of diversity. The idea of gun diversity is discussed at length here.

The walk speed is also slower, so essentially there are faster firing guns and a slower walk speed.
Given these facts, the PK style for iEra is clearly different from Era PC.
There is far less emphasis on weaving through bullets; rather, the objective is to coax or trick the opponent into walking into a trail of bullets and putting them into an undodgeable (due to the slower walk speed) flurry of combo hits.
The solutions that may work on Era PC may not work on Era iPhone.
The only thing in common with Era PC is the shared idea of balance: making sure the weapon stats don't compromise the fairness of the game.

Eventually, a threshold is met where one gun is released that players complain that a gun is too powerful, invoking a recall of some sort. Solely based on your posts, MiniOne (because I haven't been on iEra in some time), I would say that the threshold is either met or on the verge of being met.
I know that Cloyd and I share very similar views on guns, and I doubt that he would let anything compromise fair PKing.
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Last edited by Masa; 10-21-2011 at 12:47 PM..
  #33  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniOne View Post

And about the pricing issue, PC has numerous more ways to making money and the amount they can make from just say a diamond is about $100 far exceeds that of the highest amount you can make from Era off one item (a shell for $8).
Hi.
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, but it looks like you're implying a diamond on Era is 100$.
Diamonds are 30$. Furthermore, they are certainly NOT the norm, due to only having a 4% chance of being mined (that might be higher, i'm not at home and I don't have the data set with me right now.).
If you do the math on drop rates related to money output, you would see that each rock you mine on Era averages at about 9.8$/rock, +- maybe .2 or so.

Given that unless you're over level 30 mining ( I'm going to..assume <10% of era has mining levels this high. I believe it's more like <5%, but I can't back that one up as well), you can only mine at most 700 rocks per hour (with a workers potion, doing nothing but staring at the screen -- the perfectly ideal hour), and would probably average somewhere around 500, you're only making ~5k/hour mining.

Being that mining is close to, if not the best way of earning money on the server, wages aren't particularly high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniOne View Post

New ways of earning money would be nice, and the clear difference in the amounts earned on PC and iEra are shown through the lottery. iEra you earn about $100 from lottery while PC if i remember correctly can go over $5000 (correct me if I'm wrong). And PC has a lot smaller playercount then iEra yet their lottery flocks out a lot more money.
I haven't played IEra in a long time, but haven't you defeated your own argument? Assuming (like on era PC) that multiple people can win the lottery, a higher playercount should diminish the returns on individual winnings.

For example -- say 30,000 is invested in the lottery, half of which is payed out in winnings (thats 15k, boss). If 3 players win, which is about normal on Era, that's 5k per person

but IEra has a lot more players. If 30 players win, that's only .5k per person

and etcetera. I'm sure they run a slighly different lottery system, but it's hard to make guesses on that without seeing it.





also, if i may..
ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. stop trying to homogenize them.
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoper View Post
ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES
Nope.
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  #35  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:40 PM
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2011, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masa View Post
is far less emphasis on weaving through bullets; rather, the objective is to coax or trick the opponent into walking into a trail of bullets and putting them into an undodgeable (due to the slower walk speed) flurry of combo hits.
You made laming sound cool.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2011, 07:24 AM
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I'm still laughing about $100 for a bar.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2011, 02:59 PM
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wow did sum1 actually read all that stuff at top-page???
  #39  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:25 AM
MiniOne MiniOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoper View Post
Hi.
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, but it looks like you're implying a diamond on Era is 100$.
Diamonds are 30$. Furthermore, they are certainly NOT the norm, due to only having a 4% chance of being mined (that might be higher, i'm not at home and I don't have the data set with me right now.).
If you do the math on drop rates related to money output, you would see that each rock you mine on Era averages at about 9.8$/rock, +- maybe .2 or so.

Given that unless you're over level 30 mining ( I'm going to..assume <10% of era has mining levels this high. I believe it's more like <5%, but I can't back that one up as well), you can only mine at most 700 rocks per hour (with a workers potion, doing nothing but staring at the screen -- the perfectly ideal hour), and would probably average somewhere around 500, you're only making ~5k/hour mining.

Being that mining is close to, if not the best way of earning money on the server, wages aren't particularly high.



I haven't played IEra in a long time, but haven't you defeated your own argument? Assuming (like on era PC) that multiple people can win the lottery, a higher playercount should diminish the returns on individual winnings.

For example -- say 30,000 is invested in the lottery, half of which is payed out in winnings (thats 15k, boss). If 3 players win, which is about normal on Era, that's 5k per person

but IEra has a lot more players. If 30 players win, that's only .5k per person

and etcetera. I'm sure they run a slighly different lottery system, but it's hard to make guesses on that without seeing it.





also, if i may..
ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. stop trying to homogenize them.
iEra has a playercount well over 500, assuming 100 people out of the 500 invest into it and since we have 5 winners you'd assume the payback would be greater than on Era.
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The pistols look like they have cancer, reduce the big buboe shaped thing's size.
  #40  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:26 AM
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  #41  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post

Most post on Graalians.com. I believe Cloyd can balance a gun.


I would like to know how you would balance the guns out- what would you do with the following guns:
  • BAR
  • M4
  • Famas
  • Shipka
Hm, not sure of the weapon structure on iPhone.
However, I watched quite a few spars on the server and the distinction between the supposedly, "newly" released guns is pretty clear.
But then again, I toyed with the, what I would call, "Tier 1" weapons and there are clear distinctions (yet again). - As Masa pointed out.

In short, the ideal case would be fixing the problem at the source first (Tier 1 weapons), then work your way up. However, in this context, a rebalance of that caliber could cause more harm than good. iEra is different from Era, in that it has a MUCH larger active playercount.
Simpler terms, more people affected, more people angry.

Yet, one key thing remains unexplored, how many guns does iEra have?
[Thought of this while writing]

Premature response, but:
Best bet on this one is to alter those newly-released weapons if they're that problematic. I'm sure there's several ways to perhaps place them in "check" without massively affecting whatever balance Cloyd has developed.
Seeing as they are not at the bottom or source of the structure, the effect should be similar to taking icing off a cake; superficial - for lack of a better word.
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  #42  
Old 10-23-2011, 11:00 PM
Supaman771 Supaman771 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom_Fish View Post
Seeing as they are not at the bottom or source of the structure, the effect should be similar to taking icing off a cake; superficial - for lack of a better word.
But the icing is the best part...
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  #43  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:00 AM
WillaWonka WillaWonka is offline
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But the icing is the best part...
Especially vanilla icing..

Screw era, lets talk about pastries.
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  #44  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Supaman771 View Post
But the icing is the best part...
Egh, more accurately, taking the cherry from on top.
Nothing will move but the cherry. -_-
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  #45  
Old 10-24-2011, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom_Fish View Post
Egh, more accurately, taking the cherry from on top.
Nothing will move but the cherry. -_-
Had there been a cherry in the original description that would've been the best part.
Icing remaining a close second.

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Screw era, lets talk about pastries.
Lol, fat.
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