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View Poll Results: Should the remodelled classic have a default or a custom system?
Default 29 78.38%
Custom 8 21.62%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:07 AM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
Most of the scripters here say Custom is the better option if not a Custom System that emulates Default.
Most of the scripters here haven't sat and watched the very same staff try to replicate default for years and years already.
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  #32  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Most of the scripters here haven't sat and watched the very same staff try to replicate default for years and years already.
Might have something to do with the very same staff not previously attempting to complete an exact replicate of Default before.
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:18 AM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
Might have something to do with the very same staff not previously attempting to complete an exact replicate of Default before.
You have attempted to "replicate" default several times.
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:19 AM
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what exactly would you want to add into the system that isn't presented in default? i don't see what advantages you could use with a scripted system, or why it would be better
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  #35  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
You have attempted to "replicate" default several times.
I don't recall ever setting out to make a set of custom systems with the goal of completely replicating Default,
I had taken bits and pieces out of the current systems and replaced them with mechanisms similar to Default but that is a completely different process.

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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
what exactly would you want to add into the system that isn't presented in default? i don't see what advantages you could use with a scripted system, or why it would be better
There are endless possibilities,
for instance, you may want a normal Default like movement as regular player movement but with the ability to easily apply additional modes such as running, slipping on ice, opposite walking, no damage recoil movement, double damage recoil movement etc.
Can't say it's impossible to do such things with Default but they tend to require messy hacks as there are limited controls, or by disabling Default temporarily you'd be relying on a Custom input anyway.

Default also limits you on the basic variables such as HP, Bombs, Arrows etc,
as far as recent tests on Dev show (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) you can't properly give players more than 12 hearts, or more hearts than their normal heart limit, AP restrictions apply all the time and can prevent full heals, Saints can't be hurt in levels where you'd want them to be hurt etc, all somewhat important things for events, sparring, pking and there's just so many things which require tampering with and you end up spending more time on it.
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  #36  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
I don't recall ever setting out to make a set of custom systems with the goal of completely replicating Default,
I had taken bits and pieces out of the current systems and replaced them with mechanisms similar to Default but that is a completely different process
Yeah, you have.

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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
And in response to the whole HD argument, we are aware that it's a problem and we're trying to take the most beneficial route to fixing it. We are also aware that fixing it won't be the holy grail of the server and make everyone migrate, hence why we aren't dedicating the whole development team to it.
Rather than arguing about the HD I would suggest waiting for the newer one to be released which should feel more like the default, and possibly talking about other problems on the server.
There's stuff like this all over the place.
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  #37  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:58 AM
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why do people insist on making these redundant threads?
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  #38  
Old 07-09-2009, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Yeah, you have.



There's stuff like this all over the place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
I don't recall ever setting out to make a set of custom systems with the goal of completely replicating Default,
I had taken bits and pieces out of the current systems and replaced them with mechanisms similar to Default but that is a completely different process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Rather than arguing about the HD I would suggest waiting for the newer one to be released which should feel more like the default
Where does it say that we're going to attempt to build a full set of custom systems with the intention of emulating Default?
Rather than replacing one single mechanism within Custom Systems not designed for that purpose for determining whether the player has been hit by another player with a mechanism also used in Default?
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  #39  
Old 07-09-2009, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
There are endless possibilities,
for instance, you may want a normal Default like movement as regular player movement but with the ability to easily apply additional modes such as running, slipping on ice, opposite walking, no damage recoil movement, double damage recoil movement etc.
Can't say it's impossible to do such things with Default but they tend to require messy hacks as there are limited controls, or by disabling Default temporarily you'd be relying on a Custom input anyway.

Default also limits you on the basic variables such as HP, Bombs, Arrows etc,
as far as recent tests on Dev show (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) you can't properly give players more than 12 hearts, or more hearts than their normal heart limit, AP restrictions apply all the time and can prevent full heals, Saints can't be hurt in levels where you'd want them to be hurt etc, all somewhat important things for events, sparring, pking and there's just so many things which require tampering with and you end up spending more time on it.
so rather than making small edits at a time with the default system, you are going to script an entirely new system and then make small edits on that once you need them? that sounds like a waste of development time, since i don't see the difference if the custom is going to be "classic" but scripted

how is your scripted system going to differ from the default one, if at all?
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  #40  
Old 07-09-2009, 05:57 AM
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The difference between Custom and Default is that while we might want to make it feel like Default first and foremost, the potential is there to improve certain areas of it, if not adjust areas to suit the needs of any type of content that might require different player manipulation.
With a decent setup this can be accomplished much quicker than working with Default in the long run.
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  #41  
Old 07-09-2009, 07:30 AM
Terazel Tenjin Terazel Tenjin is offline
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**** it, I'm going over to G2K1.
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  #42  
Old 07-09-2009, 07:49 AM
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**** it, I'm going over to G2K1.
That's Bomy Island to you.
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  #43  
Old 07-09-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
There are alot of Pros and Cons both ways with this issue,
I don't believe there is a definate right answer,
it really depends on what you are looking to achieve and how quickly.

If it were just for the sake of getting Core Foundations in place and for the sake of getting back on the Classic Tab asap,
obviously Default would be the answer.

If it were for the sake of having flexible systems that can have specific parts changed at a later point in time without breaking any other parts,
and providing full flexability,
Custom Systems are the answer.

Some things that have to be considered are that Custom Systems have a poor reputation among Players and Developers,
there could be other reasons but i'd guess this is mainly down to attempts to use them either failing or taking too much time, aswell as Developers finding it hard to learn/adapt to them.
But the reason this may occur is in my opinion more down to how well they are made and how well they are documented,
a well made system with decent documentation can be better than working with Default.
Also that there's a conception that Custom appears/feels different to Default, and therefore isn't Classic, this is entirely untrue, a Custom system can be made to feel as if it were entirely Default.

Saying that might make it seem like i'm being one sided towards Custom,
but actually i'd say Default is my own personal preference,
if making a new server was completely down to me i'd definately stick with it,
however having discussed what we'd like to achieve with Storm + WhiteDragon, people I know are going to be scripting towards it on the server, we're likely going with Custom,
although I emphasise that making it feel exactly like Default is a priority.

If you really decide to do it custom we'll probably have few scripters and a lot of work that no one does, and it will take millions of years.
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  #44  
Old 07-09-2009, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mistral_007 View Post
If you really decide to do it custom we'll probably have few scripters and a lot of work that no one does, and it will take millions of years.
It won't if the Systems can be finished within a decent amount of times. I don't see why scripters wouldn't come here if the systems are done correctly as well as being documented properly.

The biggest concern for the players should be the hit detection/movement which is supposed to emulate Default.(I don't know the exact details)
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  #45  
Old 07-09-2009, 10:15 PM
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The system will be a documented custom system that for the long term goal is a more efficient way to go.
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