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  #16  
Old 06-01-2009, 02:49 AM
Terazel Tenjin Terazel Tenjin is offline
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Would it hurt more to keep "less talented" staff members around to develop their skills with practice, or not accept anyone of average quality into an elitist circle of development and keep waiting on miracle talents to drop out of the sky?

And if you never give people the chance, how will they ever get better? Are developer talents solely based on initial aptitude?
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2009, 03:25 AM
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Would it hurt more to keep "less talented" staff members around to develop their skills with practice, or not accept anyone of average quality into an elitist circle of development and keep waiting on miracle talents to drop out of the sky?

And if you never give people the chance, how will they ever get better? Are developer talents solely based on initial aptitude?
How would saturating a staff team of "less talented developers" allow them to flourish their skills? The standards aren't set, they need to be, and without people who know what they're doing it's not going to happen; Zodiac is a server that is a great example of this. It's not about accepting people from an elitist group, it's about having a balance between people who have actual experience and those that have potential. Developer talents are built up, but not on their own, and Classic doesn't have the time nor longevity left to open up as a dev school without teachers, especially while every other server is actually making decent progressions around us. How long do you think this server actually has left before it gets to the point where it's just not going to be possible?
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2009, 03:35 AM
Terazel Tenjin Terazel Tenjin is offline
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How would saturating a staff team of "less talented developers" allow them to flourish their skills? The standards aren't set, they need to be, and without people who know what they're doing it's not going to happen; Zodiac is a server that is a great example of this. It's not about accepting people from an elitist group, it's about having a balance between people who have actual experience and those that have potential. Developer talents are built up, and Classic doesn't have the time nor longevity left to open up as a dev school without teachers, especially while every other server is actually making decent progressions around us. How long do you think this server actually has left before it gets to the point where it's just not going to be possible?
Doesn't it go back to what pool of talents there are to be utilized being a major milestone? While I agree that a standard needs to be set, it seems like self-amputation to shun help from willing any developers simply because they aren't up to par. Maybe repurpose them for something else until they catch on? Or pair them up on projects with a more senior/better developer? I don't know how it works, that's why I'm asking the questions. But I would think Management should, well, manage this a little better rather than not hiring/firing willing help.

And since you mentioned the lifetime left on the server, I personally feel it has already expired. 2-3 years ago, there were enough players for a jumpstart, enough talents that were "up to standard" and even beyond it, and there were much more going for the server in regards to potential than there is currently to work with. The end result is still the same; all the promises and campaign fireworks that last several months and then back into obscurity. Logic would dictate that either development and management of Classic are the roadblocks that never change, or that the server itself is beyond repair and revival.

While I don't disagree with you about the significant of standards, I think for the server it goes back to the saying of, "Beggars can't be choosers."
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2009, 03:52 AM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin View Post
Doesn't it go back to what pool of talents there are to be utilized being a major milestone? While I agree that a standard needs to be set, it seems like self-amputation to shun help from willing any developers simply because they aren't up to par. Maybe repurpose them for something else until they catch on? Or pair them up on projects with a more senior/better developer? I don't know how it works, that's why I'm asking the questions. But I would think Management should, well, manage this a little better rather than not hiring/firing willing help.
I am not against taking on developers who are new or unknown and helping them build on their skills. I've worked with a scripter in the past who I didn't know at the time and he was the best person I have ever worked with. I have also tried to help Midi with her pixel art as she is relatively new to it, but has experience with other art areas so has potential there. When you're only taking on these new developers however and allowing them to just make their own way then there's an issue, especially since there's no one really around to sit down with these people and show them a few examples, give them a few hints, and really push them in the right direction, whatever that may be. The developer pool is weak, but there are some developers out there that could and would work on Classic, but no one wants to volunteer onto a development team where they know they're going to be working on content as an individual and doubling up as a coach.

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And since you mentioned the lifetime left on the server, I personally feel it has already expired. 2-3 years ago, there were enough players for a jumpstart, enough talents that were "up to standard" and even beyond it, and there were much more going for the server in regards to potential than there is currently to work with. The end result is still the same; all the promises and campaign fireworks that last several months and then back into obscurity. Logic would dictate that either development and management of Classic are the roadblocks that never change, or that the server itself is beyond repair and revival.
Well, inevitably you might be right with the environment that it is in. There's still new players logging on now and again though, people do check it out, and with that I still have hope for a future.

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While I don't disagree with you about the significant of standards, I think for the server it goes back to the saying of, "Beggars can't be choosers."
I would agree with you if there had been any effort put into attracting staff, rather than sitting and waiting for them to come along. That's a pretty ironic statement for me to make as I'm doing the same for Bomy Island, but I think there's more of a market for Classic developers as it has a good backbone and larger following (albeit not that much) to work with.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2009, 02:35 PM
Jimbo33 Jimbo33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
The developer pool is weak, but there are some developers out there that could and would work on Classic, but no one wants to volunteer onto a development team where they know they're going to be working on content as an individual and doubling up as a coach.
I have to agree with Rufus on that one.
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  #21  
Old 06-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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I feel like you guys are talking crap.

stfu and do something yourself if you want to learn how to help classic

classic's content has always relied on the entire playerbase. staff are no lacking. players are currently lacking. players have to step up.

lol

furthermore, i don't see any reason why classic can't still be the main hub server with all the players. it may take a while to complete classic, but it won't take long to make it a better game than UN or Era, so...

Don't give me that delteria ****. I've seen it. I'm not so impressed anyway...

The level style in that castley town is lame and actually allows for less possibilities. It is one step backwards in level functionality from Graal's standard level style and I can prove this with relative ease.
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2009, 11:33 PM
k_killar k_killar is offline
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I applied as a Dev staff, and i sent in my work and they said it was excellent, but they looked at my ban history and automatically said no.
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2009, 11:39 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaeru View Post
I feel like you guys are talking crap.

stfu and do something yourself if you want to learn how to help classic

classic's content has always relied on the entire playerbase. staff are no lacking. players are currently lacking. players have to step up.

lol

furthermore, i don't see any reason why classic can't still be the main hub server with all the players. it may take a while to complete classic, but it won't take long to make it a better game than UN or Era, so...

Don't give me that delteria ****. I've seen it. I'm not so impressed anyway...

The level style in that castley town is lame and actually allows for less possibilities. It is one step backwards in level functionality from Graal's standard level style and I can prove this with relative ease.
The way Graal works has changed a lot over the years. It used to be very easy to submit content...from head graphics, to player houses, to even whole islands and/or quests. However, Graal is a lot more complex. First off, Classic uses a custom system. How can we create quests when we don't even know how HD works or how to interact with the custom systems? We can't. Even something as simple as a switch is something we just can't do without help from the Staff who knows the systems.

Graal has went from mainly a player-developed system, to a staff-developed system. Not to mention, if the players aren't staff, it's probably because they can't develop, therefor anything they would make probably would suck ass and not be usable. Also, don't forget that standards back then were really. really low, and a lot of player-submitted stuff was accepted that looked like ****. Hence, players doing more would actually lower the standard, rather than raising it.
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  #24  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:05 AM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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Even something as simple as a switch is something we just can't do without help from the Staff who knows the systems.
No it's not.
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  #25  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:08 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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No it's not.
lol... so I can make an NPC work by using function onWa****()? I don't think so, since the server uses custom HD. Therefor, with no documentation... it would be impossible for me to guess how it works. At least, that's what people like Thor and such make it out to be.
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  #26  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:13 AM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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Oh, I must of misunderstood what you meant by switch if it involves onWa****()
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  #27  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:20 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Oh, I must of misunderstood what you meant by switch if it involves onWa****()
Aye. GS1 was very accessible because of its documentation and the fact many example scripts were made public(all of Classic used to be packed with Graal itself). Along with that and commands.rtf, it was very easy to pick up and start your own quests. GS2 is a bit more complicated, along with the NPC-server and clientside/serverside communication, it's just not as easy. Introduce custom systems with absolutely no public documentation and it makes it impossible for players to really make anything outside of simple things.

Even when I worked on Classic, I couldn't use even simple scripts(such as my hammer) because of the way custom systems inferred with otherwise simple things. For example, last time I talked to Thor about the HD, it was a DBNPC that had to be called to the location of the players swing... I don't know if it still works like that, but ya that gives you an idea of how accessible the custom stuff can be for a player who can hardly script a door.
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