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  #46  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:21 PM
excaliber7388 excaliber7388 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyld View Post
As do I. Why? Because it means that we can provide immediate updates to every client on Graal, on every platform, at the same time. That's an incredible bonus because it means that three separate sets of tools aren't having to be released and updated every time a new feature is added. That would be costly in terms of developer time and you would then see less other updates.
Which would be great if they ran at the speed as offline native apps, and didn't require an account.
The offline apps are still needed, until people can edit levels and gs2 without owning a server online.
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How exactly is it slow? I'm guessing it has something to do with being ran on an Intel Mac, since it is very fast for me on PowerPC.
I haven't used it in a while, but when I first did, it was far more limited than the PC version, and was very unresponsive. The online tools bite because they require a good internet connection, and for full speed, a PowerPC Mac. Offline editing is a huge necessity. I used to do it when I wasn't able to connect (I have a very slow internet connection at school).
We need offline tools.
Benefits of online tools: Updates for all platforms at once
Benefits of offline tools: No need for a connection, account, or server ownership.

So few people own a server and are able to make use of the online tools, which pale in comparison to the speed and features of the offline tools.
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  #47  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:27 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyld View Post
How exactly is it slow? I'm guessing it has something to do with being ran on an Intel Mac, since it is very fast for me on PowerPC.
Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.
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  #48  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Skyld Skyld is offline
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.
Can you define 'unresponsive' in this case?
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  #49  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:30 PM
excaliber7388 excaliber7388 is offline
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.
I had suspected as much. Now imagine if you were on a slow network. It's even worse.
The scripted stuff is a cheap way out of the problem: let the scripters make it for free, and then we can say we're done with it.
The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an iPhone level editor before a Mac one (and yes, there would be no sense in that).

Unresponsive = Click a button, wait 10 seconds for any response. Or place a tile, wait 20 seconds for it to appear. And that happened on a decent connection as well.
Whereas offline: click a button and it's doe in an instant, or with the windows rc, it's just as quick as the server can respond.


For example, as a Mac user with both a fast PPC machine and a new Intel machine, who also knows gs2 and some objc and cocoa, you'd think I'd make a great tester for the Intel machine and RC. But because I don't own a server, I can't.

That's what's wrong with the system
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  #50  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:33 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyld View Post
Can you define 'unresponsive' in this case?
When you hit a key, it takes like a third of a second to show up, if you type too fast, they can actually get out of order somehow, etc.
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  #51  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:34 PM
Skyld Skyld is offline
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
When you hit a key, it takes like a third of a second to show up, if you type too fast, they can actually get out of order somehow, etc.
Strikes me to be a possible problem with the Intel client, I've never experienced letters going out of order or anything. I'll see if Stefan can investigate it further.
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  #52  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:35 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Well, it is not like the private servers could not just embed any of a dozen other open source scripting language.
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  #53  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:45 PM
excaliber7388 excaliber7388 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyld View Post
Strikes me to be a possible problem with the Intel client, I've never experienced letters going out of order or anything. I'll see if Stefan can investigate it further.
The intel client is the same a the PPC, just running it through Rosetta emulation, which was greatly improved in Leopard. There shouldn't be any noticeable differences. Often, it will take a PPC program a bit longer to start up, but after that, it pretty much runs at full speed. For example, my version of photoshop is older, and runs on PPC. Rosetta makes it work on my macbook, but it takes longer to start up than on my G4 (1.4ghz). On the other hand, it can run the same filter over a large image faster than the ppc machine (it is a faster processor after all).
Now, I'm willing to bet that your iBook has a slower processor, slower gfx card, and less memory than my MacBook.
It should run a lot slower for you than me. Unless there's really something wrong with the Mac client (which I also suspect).

There's something more here. Again, I'd be the perfect candidate to test it. I do have a 1.4ghz ppc machine, as well as the 2ghz core 2 duo. Again, the problem with the whole system is that I can't, just because I don't own a server anymore.
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  #54  
Old 07-24-2008, 06:59 PM
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Text-related responsiveness has always been slow for me in GUI's, and I'm on a PC :/
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  #55  
Old 07-24-2008, 08:05 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Originally Posted by excaliber7388 View Post
The intel client is the same a the PPC, just running it through Rosetta emulation, which was greatly improved in Leopard. There shouldn't be any noticeable differences.
No, they actually compiled an Intel version which does not have to use emulation. It is far faster than the PPC client, even on a PPC system.
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  #56  
Old 07-24-2008, 08:37 PM
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its because they don't want to release the servers code i suppose....
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  #57  
Old 07-24-2008, 08:53 PM
excaliber7388 excaliber7388 is offline
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
No, they actually compiled an Intel version which does not have to use emulation. It is far faster than the PPC client, even on a PPC system.
Yeah, but people don't have access to that
I'd love to test the universal client. Although I wouldn't be able to test any of the so called development tools.
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  #58  
Old 07-24-2008, 10:47 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Originally Posted by excaliber7388 View Post
Yeah, but people don't have access to that
I'd love to test the universal client. Although I wouldn't be able to test any of the so called development tools.
Send Stefan a PM ... I was the first to try it out, and I think he let a few others, but he may let you if you ask nicely
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  #59  
Old 07-24-2008, 10:56 PM
excaliber7388 excaliber7388 is offline
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Send Stefan a PM ... I was the first to try it out, and I think he let a few others, but he may let you if you ask nicely
I did, PM wasn't answered
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