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  #31  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:44 PM
Cubical Cubical is offline
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Complete edit of current post

We can just cancel out the current spell system and create another one with actual skills that are actually useful. Maybe start with 2-3 for each class. Most of GKs spells are useless in their current state anyways. It would be easier than hacking in some modification to the current systems.

Last edited by Cubical; 09-05-2013 at 08:56 PM..
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  #32  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:58 PM
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Complete edit of current post

We can just cancel out the current spell system and create another one with actual skills that are actually useful. Maybe start with 2-3 for each class. Most of GKs spells are useless in their current state anyways. It would be easier than hacking in some modification to the current systems.
A fresh start. I'm 100% open to that.
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2013, 07:09 AM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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A fresh start. I'm 100% open to that.
How long did it take you to finally come to that?
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  #34  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:10 AM
gravator gravator is offline
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Perhaps an extra bonus for one stat being maxed at 35 instead of 30 depending on what class you have chosen?

Barbarian - str 35

Thief - dex 35

Warrior - con 35

Scorcerer - pow 35

Priest - wis 35

Alchemist - int 35
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  #35  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:06 PM
Conqueror Conqueror is offline
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Originally Posted by gravator View Post
Perhaps an extra bonus for one stat being maxed at 35 instead of 30 depending on what class you have chosen?

Barbarian - str 35

Thief - dex 35

Warrior - con 35

Scorcerer - pow 35

Priest - wis 35

Alchemist - int 35
Conq - cha 50
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  #36  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:23 PM
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How long did it take you to finally come to that?
I've been pushing for a reset for about 4 years.
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  #37  
Old 09-06-2013, 09:04 PM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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I've been a bit busy with my own project as well, but because I enjoy GK, I've got a few simple suggestions that could spare a lot of what already exists and re-purpose it for a smoother transition to a more simplified, useful system of classes.


First of all, a few preliminaries about overall proposed changes:

- Lower levels to 100 directly. 110 is superflous. Intervals of 10 help with scaling things nicely.
- Separate the skills by what classes they're already assigned to, and then make an additional category for 'universal' skills.
- Grades of materials for things like gathering professions need to be scattered throughout the world in THEMATICALLY APPROPRIATE dungeons.
- Enemies need to have their stats re-scaled to be based on a certain percentage of the player's current experience requirements, and put in dungeons that fit. (Vampires in Haunted Houses, Ice Fiends in the Ice Cave, Worms in Treasure Map Caves, etc.)
- Similarly, the amount of materials required to level up in gathering professions should also be percentage based, as should the crafting materials required for that level.
- Skills should be just as useful, and no set of sub-skills like 'spells' or 'prayers' or whatever should have proportionally more than another category. A lot of spells can be spared this way and better controlled.
- Wands are for Magic spells, Staves are for Intelligence spells, Rods are for Wisdom spells. Special spells you can't cast by learning.
- All skills are learned through literacy.
- Possible other limits like endurance or similar things might be well introduced to the more 'melee' system that cost points to use just like spells do. Just an option though.
- Each dungeon should be outfitted with a chest system based on that dungeon's level range when it comes to monsters. It's very similar to the way lords drop stuff, but a little more rewarding.
- Old content (xmas dungeon, halloween dungeon, easter dungeon, treasure maps, main island and kingdom dungeons, and so forth) should be re-purposed for becoming permanent game content.
- Item crafting should be difficult, but reward players well, and still allow players to level by doing what they're good at. Good items can still be made rare through things like low drop rates or difficult crafting.
- Basically, every skill should have a use, as well as a way to help the player earn experience.
- Spells, Arrows, and Melee Weapons need to be made more 'on-par' with each other in terms of damage. Weapons should also show their true gani time and not be misleading.
- Attack is determined by (Damage - Armor).
- Hit is determined by (WC - AC). If it succeeds, it inflicts a status effect (Attack Type) on the target.
- Resistance reduces the amount of time or the chance of success a status effect has of working. (Reduced freeze time, less burn time, less poison time, smaller stun success rate, etc.)
- If you're wanting players to play as multiple classes on different slots, you can't allow everyone to do everything, which means skill scrolls would probably need to go.
- Leveling should also be sped up substantially, but amounts should be based on what percentage different things are rewarding players for. So if you slay the strongest enemy in the game, (Let's say Kvasir since there's the hour lock.) it might give you 50-70 percent of the experience you need for your current level.
- Armor separated into what classes can use them.


Current Skills
(For copy-paste purposes!)

HTML Code:
Universal

- mountaineer
- bargaining

Physique (Strength)

- throwing
- agriculture
- mining
- fishing
- melee weapons
- punching
- karate
- missile weapons
- jumping

Agility (Dexterity)

- disarm traps
- use tools
- stealing
- hiding

Mental (Intelligence)

- find traps
- use magic item
- literacy
- baking
- crafting
- thaumaturgy
- woodsman
- smithery
- jeweler
- alchemy
- bowyer
- smithery
- woodsman

Wisdom (Wisdom)

- praying

Magic (Power)

- wizardry
- sense magic
- sense curse

Personality (Charisma)

- oratory
- singing

Updated Skills
New skills marked with *.

HTML Code:
Universal

Notes: This is for the player's overall level, which is normally a combination of all level category experience amounts added together.

- Literacy (Read books to increase player level.)
- Cooking (Make various dishes to increase player level.)
- Baking (Bake various tiers of goods to increase player level.)
- Crafting (Craft various tiers of objects to increase player level.)
- Agriculture (Farm various grades of crops to increase player level.)
- Mining (Mine various grades of minerals to increase player level.)
- Fishing (Catch various grades of fish to increase player level.)
- Use Tools (Successfully use miscellaneous tools to increase player level.)
- Questing (Successfully completing quests from the tavern to increase player level.)


Physique (Strength)

Notes: Possibly diversify skills more. Perhaps make some special melee moves or move sets.

- Melee Weapons (Sword, Axe, Hammer) Perform enemy kills with melee weapons to increase physique levels.
- Throwing (Practice throwing objects to throw them further. Kills increase physique levels.)
- Punching (Kill enemies with unarmed punches to increase physique levels.)
- Karate (Kill enemies with unarmed kicks to increase physique levels.)
- Mountaineer (Gain tiny amounts of experience with each step to increase physique levels. )


Agility (Dexterity)

Notes: Traps could be combined into one new skill, but I've set them up separately for skill balancing.

* Swift Weapons (Bow, Crossbow, Dagger) Perform enemy kills with swift weapons to increase agility levels.
- Set Traps (Kill with traps successfully to increase agility levels.)
- Disarm Traps (Disarm enemy traps successfully to increase agility levels.)
- Stealing (Steal valuables from enemies successfully to increase agility levels.)
- Stealth (Earn kills while stealthed to increase agility levels.)


Mental (Intelligence)

Notes: Mental uses its own point bar. Spell selection involves spells currently tied with mental skill functions.

* Magic Weapons (Wand, Staff, Rod) Perform enemy kills with swift weapons to increase mental levels.
- Jeweler (Cut various tiers of gems to increase mental levels.)
- Alchemy (Transmute various tiers of reagents to make potions and increase mental levels.)
- Inscription (Write or Read various tiers of scrolls to increase mental levels.)
- Tailoring (Craft clothes and other cloth items to increase mental levels.)


Wisdom (Wisdom)

Notes: Still relies on grace. Do away with the half-full system and let it regen to full like SP. Spell selection involves spells currently tied with wisdom skill functions.

* Magic Weapons (Wand, Staff, Rod) Perform enemy kills with swift weapons to increase wisdom levels.
- Praying (Pray to a god for grace and to increase wisdom levels.)
* Blessing (Bless weapons to increase their power and your wisdom levels.)
* Healing (Successfully heal others to increase wisdom levels.)
* Smiting (Successfully kill enemies with spells to increase wisdom levels.)


Magic (Power)

Notes: Still uses Spell Points (SP) to cast spells. Spell selection involves spells currently tied with magic skill functions.

* Magic Weapons (Wand, Staff, Rod) Perform enemy kills with magic weapons to increase magic levels.
- Wizardry (Perform enemy kills with magic-based spells to increase magic levels.)
* Charging (Raise number of charges on rods using spell points and increase magic levels.)
* Focusing (Focus magic concentration to regenerate spell points and increase magic levels.)
* Summoning (Perform enemy kills with elements or elementals to increase magic levels.)


Personality (Charisma)

Notes: I don't really care what weapons this uses. Kind of like a miscellaneous category that could be made into its own class.

* Exotic Weapons (Mace, Javelin, Hook, Pole, Instrument) Perform enemy kills with exotic weapons to increase personality levels.
- Oratory (Convince monsters to become your followers and perform kills to increase personality levels.)
- Singing (Sing to enemies to soothe them and increase personality levels.)
- Bargaining (Play a game of luck against shopkeepers on any purchase to get a shot at additional experience toward personality levels.)
* Dancing (Dance to keep your party's morale up and gain experience toward personality levels.)

Last edited by Draenin; 09-06-2013 at 11:42 PM..
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  #38  
Old 09-06-2013, 11:33 PM
Smeti Smeti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravator View Post
Perhaps an extra bonus for one stat being maxed at 35 instead of 30 depending on what class you have chosen?

Barbarian - str 35

Thief - dex 35

Warrior - con 35

Scorcerer - pow 35

Priest - wis 35

Alchemist - int 35
Should probably give a lower max then.. i mean, 35 str, 30 con, 30 dex is wicked, or even 30, 35, 30.. Maybe they should have like this, but with -2 or 3 of the appropriate opposing stat. Barbarians, for example, are supposed to be wacking people with hammers and axes and win with damage rather than sustain, and should then have max. 35 str, but max 28 con. This would actually make it possible to have different sets based on the class choice, and make equipment sort of class specific, which would make more set options available, and by effect, opening the possibility of introducing more items (class specific) without ruining the economy. Todays situation is kind of boring, as mages aren't really useful the only set viable is with dragon mail, rows(rodd), bord, soccers or msogs etc.

I say, make RoTs a viable option, make pure dex build viable, make pow or wis maxing viable etc, etc.
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  #39  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:06 AM
MajinDragon MajinDragon is offline
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There is a best way to play, and everyone goes for it. And as for your idea for exp. You've given me an even better idea. For example, making a certain amount the MAX a class can reach in a certain area. As such;

Priest Max levels

Agi 50
Mental 70
Magic 60
Phys 40
Personality 50
Wisdom 100

etc.

Sorcerer

Agi 40
Mental 90
Magic 100
Phys 30
Personality 50
Wisdom 60

I REALLY like this idea. I would not have thought of it had it not been for you Dr. Steef

And the way to balance it would to make all levels have to equal 300 or so.
I'm backing this.

A lot easier to implement than reworking top-end stat bonuses like if we were to let Barbarian's get to 35max str. But we still focus on one of the main problems - that each skill set isn't equal in usefulness; there should be a profound benefit to having a class that lets personality and agility cap high.
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  #40  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:35 AM
Cubical Cubical is offline
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If you guys come up with something I'll try to make it happen. I logged on debug last night and went briefly looked around and stat bonus' may not be possible due to how the mudlib handles equipment and stats. I think something to look into would be to finish up the mobile GK and eventually merge it with PC upon completion. I'd have to take a closer look at the mobile version to check the playability on PC but even if it's not playable currently it's something that could be added. It may even be a quick process if we just port some of GKs current UI's onto it.
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  #41  
Old 09-09-2013, 12:56 PM
NicoX NicoX is offline
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Originally Posted by Cubical View Post
If you guys come up with something I'll try to make it happen. I logged on debug last night and went briefly looked around and stat bonus' may not be possible due to how the mudlib handles equipment and stats. I think something to look into would be to finish up the mobile GK and eventually merge it with PC upon completion. I'd have to take a closer look at the mobile version to check the playability on PC but even if it's not playable currently it's something that could be added. It may even be a quick process if we just port some of GKs current UI's onto it.
Mobile version wont be accessable through client, maybe Facebook.
GK PC will be able on Facebook soon, where we might need the character slot system anyway.

We also have a developer already who will work on unique class bonuses i.e. stats/effects etc.
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  #42  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Cubical Cubical is offline
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Originally Posted by NicoX View Post
Mobile version wont be accessable through client, maybe Facebook.
GK PC will be able on Facebook soon, where we might need the character slot system anyway.

We also have a developer already who will work on unique class bonuses i.e. stats/effects etc.
Ok cool
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  #43  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:08 AM
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I've been pushing for a reset for about 4 years.
Sadly this is almost the best solution I can think too, knowing what I know from both playerside and development sides.
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  #44  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:23 AM
Stephen Stephen is offline
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Sadly this is almost the best solution I can think too, knowing what I know from both playerside and development sides.
The problem is that if we don't slightly change the locations, layout, and the way quests are completed then oldbies will just rush back in with their prior knowledge and power level in a matter of weeks.
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  #45  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:11 PM
scriptless scriptless is offline
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The problem is that if we don't slightly change the locations, layout, and the way quests are completed then oldbies will just rush back in with their prior knowledge and power level in a matter of weeks.
Well I think what went wrong was there was loopholes to max out your level. The first one I noticed was the Ruby DoPV. Then people mainly focused on 110 then just idled and acted cool. And then EA, IWD, and all of them became semi-extinct.

From discussions with Tig, it's not easily fixed without a reset. Becuase, some items are not standard. And trivial things like taking away EA's from items you wouldn't know what base armour the original item had, or other such variables.

Yeah I agree oldbies will just rush thru if alot was changed. I kinda suggested a storyline in the past, complete with cutscenes. i think that the tutorial at the beginning is just bad presentation. Players don't like being told how to do things, but they like knowing. I use this example: you show a short 10 second cut scene and a player walks to a door then "grabs" it and it opens. Anyone with half a brain would be able to associate grabbing doors with opening them and you didnt have to put an anoying message "press a to open door" that inevitably becomes annoying.

I do however, like the overall direction that GK is heading for the most part. I still think adding more outfits would be a good idea. I kinda want to challenge the people on these forums to take only the outfits currently available on gk and put together anything they think represents all the classes. I don't feel as if GK has enough "stye" in it.. maybe thats just me.
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