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Old 11-08-2016, 11:45 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Time For a Change of Presidency?

I couldn't help but notice that the two remaining faces of PC Graal's power structure have not visited these forums within the last approximate month, this statistic being part of what has become a fairly regular occurrence:

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While this statistic alone does not necessarily mean a lot, it is very much consistent with the overall picture as to the state of disrepair the game has sunk down to, and the lack of any whisper of hope that fortunes may turn around.

The last thread which brought up Graal's downward spiral invoked disclosure of a new 3D client. I do appreciate that Unixmad is not 100% fluent at English and so maybe his posts should not be interpreted too harshly, but even with that considered for me this did nothing to diminish the doubts and failed to provide any clarity to the topic at hand: to what extent is PC Graal / PC Client / PlayerWorlds going to be supported in future? and does Graal's administration actually care? Sadly this thread was eventually locked following a couple of idiotic posts, which is also a re-occurring pattern that is perhaps too convenient.

Now I've heard promises in private which to some may seem like very positive news, and I don't plan on publishing the specifics of this because I don't want to either raise false hopes or create a greater division of trust between administration and the community. However as much as I would love to see these things happen, I never believed it from the beginning due to the fact it highly contradicts things which have been said beforehand, as well as technical and logistical limitations. Fast forward a few months and there still does not appear to be any evidence that this is in the pipeline.

Moving on to the point of this thread. Every once in a while I've heard about various ex-Global staff being offered to return, people such as Skyld, Ibonic and Galen. These are all persons I have a good level of respect for, they'd each bring a unique skillset to the table that Graal is sorely lacking and I certainly would be happy if one of these were to accept such an offer. Looking at the timescales of their absences, and again no disrespect is intended towards Galen, but his tenure as Game Master ended what, 14 years ago? It does suggest that there is a large disconnect between administration and the development community.

What would happen if for example Carlito resigned tomorrow? Would Unixmad just pull the plug on PC Graal? Would things continue as if nothing had happened and the position of PWA remain unfilled? Would Unixmad offer the position to a random mobile server staff that happened to be logged on RC at that precise moment? Perhaps Unixmad would seek the opinions of Xor or SNK? Again I don't mean to come across as taking snipes, I admire their overall contributions to Graal and the longevity of their tenures, but Xor has had bigger fish to fry for the last 7 years and has remained reclusive to this community, and SNK has also had bigger fish to fry for the last 6 years and has continually expressed desires concerning the future of PC Graal as a game that I would suggest fundamentally undermine the future of Graal as a development platform.

Whether or not Unixmad and Carlito have good intentions is something that can and already has been debated, but one thing which cannot be debated is that the last update of significance was over 2 years ago (a botched client version for which numerous bugs have still not been fixed) and that the time since then has seen more negative happenings than positive ones. I would therefore suggest that if they are serious about supporting PC Graal going forward as both a game and development platform they would by now accept that some form of administrational shake-up is required. Even if ultimately no-one was deemed to possess the required level of credentials and trustworthiness, an attempt to procure such a shake-up could at least provide PC Graal with a shot in the arm at a time when playercount is at an unprecedented low.

I for one had hoped that my offers to redevelop the website would prove that I am willing to put aside personal differences if it were to be mutually beneficial. This is of course just one of many problems afflicting PC Graal and high up in terms of the time/effort/trust required to rectify, therefore I wouldn't rank a full redevelopment high in a table of priorities certainly compared to a minor redevelopment. Either way the provision of such a project would at least be seen as a statement of positive intent.
  #2  
Old 11-09-2016, 01:36 AM
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I do not understand how the title connects to your post...
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:02 AM
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i guess its nice that you care so much, a lot of people have given up tbh
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:06 AM
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:28 AM
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:36 PM
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is it really? the guy who people said wouldn't and then did and continued to do?

it's reasons like this why pc graal is the way it is.
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:49 PM
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I blame the third party graalians
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:30 PM
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I understand what you're saying but don't base their inactivity solely on their forum presence as it's really inaccurate. As you're stating they're inactive- what should Carlito be doing as a PRA that he isn't?

Unixmad is focusing on other projects so maybe I can help- please can you provide me with a list of issues with the existing client and I'll forward it over.

As you said - my opinion is that it's a development platform, I can't see it any differently right now. It's got nothing going for it if you ask me- I'm sure if we put a Minecraft spin on things it would draw more people in.

If there is anything I can do within my power I don't mind helping - remember that; forum PM me and the very least I will do is direct anything I can't handle to the correct area.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
don't base their inactivity solely on their forum presence as it's really inaccurate.
I thought I made it abundantly clear that I wasn't insinuating this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
As you're stating they're inactive- what should Carlito be doing as a PRA that he isn't?
This probably isn't the place to make such a discussion as the thread would most likely end up locked, but I could provide you a long list of things that Carlito should have been doing, as well as should not have been doing for that matter.

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Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
Unixmad is focusing on other projects
How many more years do I have to hear that he's either very busy or is focused on priorities before he actually makes good on one of his words? It's almost as if making a promise every once in a while has become a running joke just for the sake of seeing who bites.

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maybe I can help- please can you provide me with a list of issues with the existing client and I'll forward it over.
If you can guarantee me that an effort will eventually be made to rectify such issues then I would happily go through the effort of compiling a list. I as well as others have already gone through the effort of raising such issues within forum threads/posts and the vast majority of these have not even been acknowledged, even ones that given the access I could fix myself within 5 minutes.

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As you said - my opinion is that it's a development platform, I can't see it any differently right now.
If that's your opinion then fair enough. We've had this discussion before and I don't have anything else at this time to add to my suggestion that when it comes to Graal, being a development platform is synonymous with being a game.

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Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
It's got nothing going for it if you ask me
It's got nothing going for it if you ask me either, and it hasn't for a very long time despite many promises and glimpses of hope. But then when was the last time Graal's administration actually made an effort with PC Graal or gave re-assurances over its future?

Unless there is a shake up then developing here is a fools errand. This is especially true in my case as numerous players have made statements on the lines of Classic having raised the bar in terms of gameplay quality, and yet we've constantly had to deal with being stifled by management, as well as primary-school level excuses for not allowing it to reach a wider audience.

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Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
- I'm sure if we put a Minecraft spin on things it would draw more people in.
The great thing about Minecraft compared to Graal is that it's a hell of a lot easier to get other people to play your world, which I believe for most developers is the most enticing form of motivation. The provision of iPhone server project go-aheads is something which has only been granted to a privileged minority, in no way is mobile Graal an accurate bench-mark as to what can be accomplished by developing a new server.

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Originally Posted by xAndrewx View Post
If there is anything I can do within my power I don't mind helping - remember that; forum PM me and the very least I will do is direct anything I can't handle to the correct area.
Thank you, if I think of something I may take you up on that offer. But the reason I made this thread is because PC Graal, whether you see it as a game/development platform/both is in desperate need of a higher-up to take a pro-active approach to fixing it.
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Old 11-10-2016, 12:46 AM
Kamaeru Kamaeru is offline
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It's got nothing going for it if you ask me- I'm sure if we put a Minecraft spin on things it would draw more people in.
Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. You seem to be really out of touch with not only what Graal is, or the direction Graal should be going, but also reality.

I'm not sure if you're blissfully unaware of this but Graal is based on Zelda for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Gameplay-wise it has a lot going for it most definitely, and none of that has any relation with Minecraft unless you are referring to the mining/crafting system on Bomy Island which predates Minecraft by a long shot.
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Old 11-10-2016, 12:55 AM
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being "more like minecraft" in the sense where the focus is building words would definitely be a turn off for me

while having that as an option is definitely part of graal's charm, if that were the focus and I was a potential new player, that would be a turn off for me.

which is honestly why I couldn't get into minecraft. it was neat near the start, just to join a server and hang out, but as the focus shifted to everyone having their own worlds, I lost interest. while it is nice to contribute to one server and build up, ultimately what I want to do is play a game, not build it. coincidentally, none of the servers here that I've been dev staff on were ones that I played, and none of the servers that I played were ones that did dev work for.

granted, that's just me, and I may be in the minority, but I wouldn't be so quick to say that one way is successful and one isn't. I think what's most attractive about graal is "zelda online" not "build a game".
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:45 PM
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I can't believe he won honestly. Unbelievable.

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Old 11-10-2016, 06:41 PM
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I thought I made it abundantly clear that I wasn't insinuating this.

This probably isn't the place to make such a discussion as the thread would most likely end up locked, but I could provide you a long list of things that Carlito should have been doing, as well as should not have been doing for that matter.

How many more years do I have to hear that he's either very busy or is focused on priorities before he actually makes good on one of his words? It's almost as if making a promise every once in a while has become a running joke just for the sake of seeing who bites.

If you can guarantee me that an effort will eventually be made to rectify such issues then I would happily go through the effort of compiling a list. I as well as others have already gone through the effort of raising such issues within forum threads/posts and the vast majority of these have not even been acknowledged, even ones that given the access I could fix myself within 5 minutes.

If that's your opinion then fair enough. We've had this discussion before and I don't have anything else at this time to add to my suggestion that when it comes to Graal, being a development platform is synonymous with being a game.

It's got nothing going for it if you ask me either, and it hasn't for a very long time despite many promises and glimpses of hope. But then when was the last time Graal's administration actually made an effort with PC Graal or gave re-assurances over its future?

Unless there is a shake up then developing here is a fools errand. This is especially true in my case as numerous players have made statements on the lines of Classic having raised the bar in terms of gameplay quality, and yet we've constantly had to deal with being stifled by management, as well as primary-school level excuses for not allowing it to reach a wider audience.

The great thing about Minecraft compared to Graal is that it's a hell of a lot easier to get other people to play your world, which I believe for most developers is the most enticing form of motivation. The provision of iPhone server project go-aheads is something which has only been granted to a privileged minority, in no way is mobile Graal an accurate bench-mark as to what can be accomplished by developing a new server.

Thank you, if I think of something I may take you up on that offer. But the reason I made this thread is because PC Graal, whether you see it as a game/development platform/both is in desperate need of a higher-up to take a pro-active approach to fixing it.
I will pick up with you privately regarding Carlito.

You do understand that Unixmad doesn't just manage Graal, he has processes in place to run the Graal community. I have access to change a lot of the server code- so if there is something I can do please let me know. I would appreciate a list to work through- the stuff I can't do I can forward to the relevant department to investigate.

My opinions on the PC environment doesn't mean I'll turn my back on it. I just don't understand why you would aspire to create a playerworld on a dead end platform- I don't think any server will entice old players back; hence me being pro iOS. Just look at the volume of players at a prime EU time- please see attached.

I appreciate you've done a lot for Classic and yes, you've made great content. Good job. The facts are-
  • it's already got it's own server on iOS that follows the same map
  • the game play is exactly the same
I can relate to Graal on not publishing another game the exact same except with quests and content upgrades.

Side Note - whoever left this rep made me laugh
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:01 PM
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I just don't understand why you would aspire to create a playerworld on a dead end platform
I don't think whether you understand it or not is relevant - there are people willing to create the playerworlds on a dead end platform. No one is asking you or anyone higher up to do the work for them, just to have the tools and mediums available to them so they can launch their potential failures/successes.

If people like Thor or Cloud are willing to take the risk of putting a ton of work into a flop, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to ask for the present infrastructure be made available to them.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:32 PM
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