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  #1  
Old 09-05-2012, 11:30 PM
Crono1508 Crono1508 is offline
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Why I Won't Play Your Server

Custom hit detection.
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2012, 11:38 PM
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2012, 11:44 PM
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no man it's totally fine, all the non-sparrers say so
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2012, 11:56 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Well as far as I know it emulates default in every conceivable way, but if you don't want to play it because it's custom what can you do?
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2012, 01:28 AM
fowlplay4 fowlplay4 is offline
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I don't like to read that much and found that this type of questing isn't for me, grats on being on the playerworlds list again though.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:56 AM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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I don't like to read that much and found that this type of questing isn't for me, grats on being on the playerworlds list again though.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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oh shyt superhybrid was just birthed
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2012, 11:11 PM
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Custom hit detection is terrible & there is absolutely nothing to do after finishing quests. I mean yeah, you can play events but like Ph8 mentioned on the UN forums, the events last almost 30minutes.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:17 AM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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And still nobody makes any effort to provide a reasonable, potentially measurable explanation as to why they believe the hit detection is terrible.
For all I know it could be a combination of the placebo effect based on Classic's past terrible serverside HD, and the herd mentality.

So:
  • Sword detection mechanism works by your client scanning other players for the sword animation.
  • Sword hit box is 32 x 32 pixels, offset by the attackers direction in relation to their blocking body.
  • Players blocking body is 32 x 32 pixels, and this is what must intersect with your opponents sword. Edge-on intersects are included.
  • Each 5 frames of the sword invokes a hitbox check.
  • The freeze time for slashing is 0.3 seconds, 0.25 seconds covering the whole sword gani.
  • Recoil movement is 1 tile per frame, it lasts a total of 5 frames, starting from the frame you got hit (which can prevent you from visually seeing the intersect)
  • Recoil movement sticks to wall, as opposed to sliding along it.
  • Recoil blink lasts between 0.55 - 2 seconds. It can be lost by either slashing, or releasing a previously held arrow key.
  • Swords are checked after losing blink, which means you can be combo'd.

As far as I know having spent a lot of time testing, this is how default works and what our new custom HD copies.
Am I missing something?
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:37 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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it's not placebo and it has nothing to do with classic's old hd

classic's current hd is different than other servers, to deny this is just ****ing ridiculous. it's obviously difficult to point out what exactly is wrong as a player, but the way im hitting people is simply different here than on other servers. that's it. i can't explain why.
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:53 AM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
it's not placebo and it has nothing to do with classic's old hd

classic's current hd is different than other servers, to deny this is just ****ing ridiculous. it's obviously difficult to point out what exactly is wrong as a player, but the way im hitting people is simply different here than on other servers. that's it. i can't explain why.
Problem is, nothing unexpected is happening. When someone complains about hitting someone else on their own screen without it damaging them, there's nothing unexpected about that, when someone complains about hitting someone else despite not seeing themself hit their opponent on their own screen, there's also nothing unexpected about that.
If hitting other players is different it could easily be down to something such as increased delay as a result of being on a different, possibly lower priority machine than UN or iClassic.

And there definitely is a placebo element to it, a lot of players still believe we have a serverside hit detection, which was scrapped completely.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:58 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
Problem is, nothing unexpected is happening. When someone complains about hitting someone else on their own screen without it damaging them, there's nothing unexpected about that, when someone complains about hitting someone else despite not seeing themself hit their opponent on their own screen, there's also nothing unexpected about that.
If hitting other players is different it could easily be down to something such as increased delay as a result of being on a different, possibly lower priority machine than UN or iClassic.

And there definitely is a placebo element to it, a lot of players still believe we have a serverside hit detection, which was scrapped completely.
I gave you examples in the other thread and instead of actually wondering what I'm experiencing you're too busy trying to justify your system. Many veteran sparrers are telling you that it's not the same, how can you possibly try to deny that?

On Classic I don't have to slash on a player to hit them, I spam where they will be in 1-2 seconds and then see them get hit well after I'm done. I don't lag and neither do they. On UN or iClassic that window of "slashing ahead of time" is much shorter, meaning I can't pull the same kind of hits off there. Why is it happening? I don't know, but it is, and other sparrers can see it.

It has nothing to do with Classic's old serverside HD, I doubt many of the sparrers today really even experienced that HD.

Either way, I'll just keep sparring in Classic's tournies with UDP checked (TCP). It's like a free win for me.
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2012, 01:10 AM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Many veteran sparrers are telling you that it's not the same, how can you possibly try to deny that?
Many veteran sparrers do believe it's the same as the old system, and don't understand how the detection is even meant to work. I'm not denying their opinion, just saying it isn't very reliable and that I need a better explanation.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
It has nothing to do with Classic's old serverside HD, I doubt many of the sparrers today really even experienced that HD.
I've had plenty of sparrers who never experienced it themself, but have heard about it from others.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
On Classic I don't have to slash on a player to hit them, I spam where they will be in 1-2 seconds and then see them get hit well after I'm done.
Like I said, this is the expected behaviour. I've seen the part of the built-in code that handles sword detection, our sword detection is doing the exact same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
I don't lag and neither do they. On UN or iClassic that window of "slashing ahead of time" is much shorter, meaning I can't pull the same kind of hits off there. Why is it happening? I don't know, but it is, and other sparrers can see it.
There is nothing on our side that can explain an increased delay. Not much data synchronisation is occurring, there is no excessive serverside code going on. Other than being on a different machine, the only explanation I can imagine is that a lower amount of Classic regulars are aware of significance of UDP.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2012, 01:42 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Only way to settle this is to set up an event where you toggle between default and your custom HD while not actually allowing players to tell which they're using. Toggle them randomly and see if they can tell which HD they used to during the spar.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Only way to settle this is to set up an event where you toggle between default and your custom HD while not actually allowing players to tell which they're using. Toggle them randomly and see if they can tell which HD they used to during the spar.
Agreed!

However, I did not play Classic in the past so I know nothing of it's past HD. I notice a very insignificant difference between the 2. However I think you can easily supply the best of both worlds by offering a 'default hd mode' that can be enabled when sparing? I would imagine something like that would be easily scripted and would please everyone then.

But maybe do what Dusty said to settle the argument once and for all. Personally I am a fan of offering which HD as an option for the sparrer's. Like having them both agree to it and both use it not 1 using and 1 not that would be unfair or more difficult.
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