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  #16  
Old 09-07-2012, 09:24 AM
Crono1508 Crono1508 is offline
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Thor, thanks for taking your time writing all the technical terms of your hit detection.

Just great-fabulous job. You worked really hard to get this server for live release, and you
proved that you could do it. Fantastic.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:54 PM
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I don't have any problems with it at all, i sometimes see very slight delay when participating in events, but i chalk that up to where in the world a player may live, or what connection they have.

There have been some moments when playing CTF i hit another opponent, and they slip right on past me to attack from behind, that could be to the invincible frames one has after being hit, but that seems normal to me.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2012, 04:44 PM
TheGodAngelo TheGodAngelo is offline
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i have no problems with hd. it's more balanced. if i lag and can't hit someone, they have trouble hitting me too.
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Only way to settle this is to set up an event where you toggle between default and your custom HD while not actually allowing players to tell which they're using. Toggle them randomly and see if they can tell which HD they used to during the spar.
Or I can just open two Graal tabs and spar the same person on UN and on Classic.
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2012, 05:32 PM
Polo Polo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Only way to settle this is to set up an event where you toggle between default and your custom HD while not actually allowing players to tell which they're using. Toggle them randomly and see if they can tell which HD they used to during the spar.
Something similar to this actually happened shortly after we switched to the NPC server scripted systems (including serverside hit detection), probably around mid-2005. I made a change to the scripted movement that literally broke everything, essentially throwing the entire player base onto default for a few hours; during that time we still continued to get complaints that this hit detection 'wasn't right', actually receiving more complaints about that than the fact that pretty much nothing on the server was working correctly.

With the serverside hit detection I eventually gave up trying to make it work like default, on the basis that due to differences in how lag would affect it we would never be able to get a perfect emulation anyway. At that point I intentionally diverged from default and just listened to the player feedback instead. As an example, when players complained that it was difficult to combo opponents, I tweaked the recoil distances and timing such that an opponent that charged straight back in could be hit again right at the point they came back within striking distance. This change made it much easier to combo aggressive or frustrated players, whereas those with a more defensive style could avoid it; the change was generally met with positive feedback, despite the fact it was different from how the default hit detection worked.

I've tried the hit detection on Classic and personally I didn't find it to be any different from how I remember default. I'll caveat that with the fact that I'm not a hugely active sparrer any more (though I was back in the day), and that I've spent the last 8 years playing and working almost exclusively on custom systems. If that somehow makes my opinion worth less then so be it. I did give Thor some feedback and suggested changes, but these came out of my own experiences tweaking hit detection for player entertainment and were not related to emulating default.

I hope that whatever is being experienced can be pinpointed and resolved, whether it be a script issue, lag issue or anything else. It would be an absolute shame for something like this to prevent people from experiencing such a quality server.
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  #21  
Old 09-07-2012, 06:51 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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It is not actually possible to enable default, there is a special server option in place, also used by GK and Zone which completely disables it, only Stefan can set that too.

Back when we were making the custom HD however, players were using default. I would sometimes switch players between the 2 and they weren't able to tell a difference. You could even be using the custom HD against someone using default, as they were working the same way by checking for the same sword gani.
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  #22  
Old 09-07-2012, 07:50 PM
dmhabe dmhabe is offline
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Not trying to throw more rocks at you Thor but I agree with what everyone else is saying about the hit-detection. There is something distinctly off about Classics HD. Now I don't know much about the technical aspect of it, however most people who spar on UN absolutely hate it. The way players hit and receive hits is funky. The traditional way of using combos and "blink" is almost non-applicable. Its not lag or delay, something is just not right.
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  #23  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:25 PM
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I don't know if the difference in the HD varried from person to person but a few times, rarely I must add at that the other person would just be standing still (completely) and my sword would not hurt them at all. Right below the Burger place on Classic. I'm not sure what Classic uses for the hit detection itself as I know the defautl sword gani would cause a player to be hurt I believe. But if it is using a trigger that may be the problem I am noticing. My client seems to be triggering improperly (noticed it at first on testbed actually).

But again I am talking literally a 0.0001% alost completely unnoticable difference.

Also worth noting that I am more for the custom HD as I am a Graal Kingdoms player where we use are own HD anyways.
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  #24  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:44 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Because hit detection is clientside, if someone is lagging(or disconnected) they can't be hurt. This is because hit detection is completely dependent on what they see happening on their screen. If they see your sword hit them, they get hurt. So if they're lagging and none of your movement/actions is making it to them they they're impossible to hurt.

This also happens with default.
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  #25  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Because hit detection is clientside, if someone is lagging(or disconnected) they can't be hurt. This is because hit detection is completely dependent on what they see happening on their screen. If they see your sword hit them, they get hurt. So if they're lagging and none of your movement/actions is making it to them they they're impossible to hurt.

This also happens with default.
Pretty much. Wondering is possible the HD causes or can be lagged any differently then default? On GK when a player starts lagging, it can spell bad news for them. Becasue other players who see that player in the same spot can spam there sword and kinda kill them. It happens more-so with monsters then players. You will see the monsters all walking in place not moving and then you just lose all your HP and die.
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2012, 05:41 PM
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Who cares what UN players think?
This is like building a mansion and inviting your black sheep side of the family from the trailer park over for dinner, and them in turn complaining because the expensive dinner you have provided for them doesn't taste right.

I like the new hit detection because it works better. Lamers were taking advantage of the old.

Thor hooked it up with steak and lobster, but these little kids are mad because they wanted chicken fingers and french fries.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2012, 05:54 PM
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I like the new hit detection because it works better.
How does it work better if it's practically just the same thing?
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2012, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamaeru View Post
Who cares what UN players think?
You mean what was left of the "default" community? And it's not just UN, it includes iClassic aswell.

The real question you should have asked was "Who cares what people who don't even spar, let alone play the game, think?"
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2012, 07:30 PM
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I like that someone said there was something "distinctly wrong" with Thor's system and then ended the post with "I don't know what it is". It seems like this is the general tone of the people against Thor's system and it makes me think they're hating just to hate. If you have an issue, document it and present it clearly. Stop being so vague. Try and help Thor fix what he has.

When I tried sparring under Thor's system I seen no real problems, it behaves like the default I remember. Great job Thor, I can't wait to get back on Classic.
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus_asinus View Post
I like that someone said there was something "distinctly wrong" with Thor's system and then ended the post with "I don't know what it is". It seems like this is the general tone of the people against Thor's system and it makes me think they're hating just to hate. If you have an issue, document it and present it clearly. Stop being so vague. Try and help Thor fix what he has.
The issue itself is hitting people at times where you wouldn't hit people on other servers.

Thor and I already had this discussion before and even sparred a few times ingame. Unless you're both using UDP and have low ping relative to eachother it's nothing like sparring on the other servers.
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