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  #421  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:30 PM
Bell Bell is offline
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I honestly don't think he'll complain either. While it would be nice if rights went to the actual maker of an image or a script. That is impossible for us to track. We also can't say how long a project is going to go into suspended mode. Many projects go a few years then suddenly get revived. Hence the reason that anything made and uploaded onto a server first belongs to that server.
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  #422  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:40 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
I honestly don't think he'll complain either. While it would be nice if rights went to the actual maker of an image or a script. That is impossible for us to track. We also can't say how long a project is going to go into suspended mode. Many projects go a few years then suddenly get revived. Hence the reason that anything made and uploaded onto a server first belongs to that server.
Honestly, no it wouldn't. Servers have a hard enough time, and no server needs to be ripped apart just because someone quits. Ya, we're doing this for free, but you can't put that sort of power into the developers hands. Developers just need to think harder before jumping onto a project.
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  #423  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:48 PM
Deeek Deeek is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
I honestly don't think he'll complain either. While it would be nice if rights went to the actual maker of an image or a script. That is impossible for us to track. We also can't say how long a project is going to go into suspended mode. Many projects go a few years then suddenly get revived. Hence the reason that anything made and uploaded onto a server first belongs to that server.
When I talked to him about continuing my work on his server he stated that he quit graal and has no interest in returning, which implies his abandoment of the project. It's hard to prove heresay, of course - but it's safe to assume that we had a mutual agreement that was implied that the rights would be returned to me if this happened instead of floating around in the twisting nether.

I think there's some language that needs to be addressed about this. Is there anything in the ToS that's related? I would think that with Graal this would be a pretty important topic, what with projects and such stealing other's ideas, graphics, scripts and such there would be some definitions laid out (assuming the statement that Stefan/Unixmad hold all rights to intellectual property on their servers is true).
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  #424  
Old 05-21-2010, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Deeek View Post
When I talked to him about continuing my work on his server he stated that he quit graal and has no interest in returning, which implies his abandoment of the project. It's hard to prove heresay, of course - but it's safe to assume that we had a mutual agreement that was implied that the rights would be returned to me if this happened instead of floating around in the twisting nether.

I think there's some language that needs to be addressed about this. Is there anything in the ToS that's related? I would think that with Graal this would be a pretty important topic, what with projects and such stealing other's ideas, graphics, scripts and such there would be some definitions laid out (assuming the statement that Stefan/Unixmad hold all rights to intellectual property on their servers is true).
It used to spell it out quite clearly in the EULA but since the website change I've been unable to find it. Needless to say its been this way from day 1 and until such time as I'm told otherwise I'll enforce it the exact same way. Once uploaded to Graal it belongs to Graal. To break it down further, once uploaded to a server it belongs to that server. If a developer uploads something they made onto more than one server without first gaining permission from the original. We will check rc logs to see where it was first put up and give them the useage rights. If the original server no longer exists and there is no longer a record then there is obviously nothing we can do unless its known by others to have been a part of the now defunct server.

There is absolutely no way we can guarantee every script, image or tile to always remain the property of its original server. None of us have a photographic memory of every server ever developed for Graal. This is also why we will not start giving individual developers rights within themselves. It would make it that much harder to police. (And don't come back with the "you're just lazy" line) You should try to police this sometime, its not easy!

Dusty is entirely correct when he says its up to developers to be choosier where they work. There have been far too many removal demands just because some dev gets angry at an owner and demands their work be removed. Its their problem if they can't agree with a server owner/manager, not the PWA's.
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  #425  
Old 05-21-2010, 01:41 AM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
It used to spell it out quite clearly in the EULA but since the website change I've been unable to find it. Needless to say its been this way from day 1 and until such time as I'm told otherwise I'll enforce it the exact same way. Once uploaded to Graal it belongs to Graal. To break it down further, once uploaded to a server it belongs to that server. If a developer uploads something they made onto more than one server without first gaining permission from the original. We will check rc logs to see where it was first put up and give them the useage rights. If the original server no longer exists and there is no longer a record then there is obviously nothing we can do unless its known by others to have been a part of the now defunct server.

There is absolutely no way we can guarantee every script, image or tile to always remain the property of its original server. None of us have a photographic memory of every server ever developed for Graal. This is also why we will not start giving individual developers rights within themselves. It would make it that much harder to police. (And don't come back with the "you're just lazy" line) You should try to police this sometime, its not easy!

Dusty is entirely correct when he says its up to developers to be choosier where they work. There have been far too many removal demands just because some dev gets angry at an owner and demands their work be removed. Its their problem if they can't agree with a server owner/manager, not the PWA's.
Just an interesting consequence... wouldn't everything in the Code Gallery be illegal to use (unless the person posted got it approved by Manager of the server they made it on)?

I'm pretty sure no one has.
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  #426  
Old 05-21-2010, 07:42 AM
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It's a messed up system and only someone french can come up with it.
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  #427  
Old 05-21-2010, 11:26 AM
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It's a messed up system and only someone french can come up with it.
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  #428  
Old 05-21-2010, 12:59 PM
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fixed
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  #429  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:05 PM
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fixed
LOL rep+
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  #430  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:17 PM
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fixed
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  #431  
Old 05-21-2010, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Just an interesting consequence... wouldn't everything in the Code Gallery be illegal to use (unless the person posted got it approved by Manager of the server they made it on)?

I'm pretty sure no one has.
Agreed, scripts are the most difficult to monitor. For one thing, two different people could easily come up with the same script, or very similar ones. For the sake of argument though I personally think the focus is on things more visual since thats were the whole copycat syndrome comes in.
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  #432  
Old 05-21-2010, 11:51 PM
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Yea, so I just found this on an old back-up CD of mine. It was for a server I was making about 5 or so years ago. If anyone wants to use it or whatever have at it. :P

P.S. Don't make fun of me I know I suck at GFX. :'(
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  #433  
Old 05-22-2010, 12:00 AM
Dnegel Dnegel is offline
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I think it looks kinda cool, I like the water.
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  #434  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:36 PM
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Same as Dnegel, Looks nice nice nice ;o

You should finish it, you don't suck at gfx if you made that dude
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  #435  
Old 06-10-2010, 02:41 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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I found these help the tiles a bit, but they were really hard to work into 2 tiles so they might look as good as they should.

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