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  #46  
Old 06-04-2010, 08:48 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaeru View Post
I think it would be interesting to go back to not using gmaps...

2D Zelda games would be wack as **** if they used something like gmaps.
64x64 levels is a limitation even Zelda on the SNES didn't adhere to. Sectioned off areas would be cool if done right.
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  #47  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamaeru View Post
I think it would be interesting to go back to not using gmaps...

2D Zelda games would be wack as **** if they used something like gmaps.
gmaps are great, it's how they're implemented that's a bit "meh".
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  #48  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:56 PM
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  #49  
Old 06-06-2010, 06:12 PM
WanDaMan WanDaMan is offline
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The last time I checked you only need 100 levels to get a server online providing it were full of content for players not to get bored. You could easilly manipulate this to your favor, for example; make the overworld an island, add a forest and a snow town on a large cliff. That would probably leave you with about 60 levels left to detail and add content.

I believe my mistake is that I decided to do overworlds as a way to show my portfolio to build on my reputation and not at all taking in to consideration of the players when I first started thus resulting in my work never being released to the community. The quality of the levels is there in the levels but like a lot of you guys have said - there just isn't a point to them. The best advice I can give anyone is to just plan everything before you start developing. I learnt my lesson the hard way; here's a snapshot of VS:C' when I first started developing it : http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/a...9&d=1116097048. I had no idea what I wanted to achieve and eventually I ended up with this (SEE ATTACHED). Now whenever I'm developing I'm taking into consideration the players and what they will do!
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  #50  
Old 06-06-2010, 06:31 PM
Cubical Cubical is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanDaMan View Post
The last time I checked you only need 100 levels to get a server online providing it were full of content for players not to get bored. You could easilly manipulate this to your favor, for example; make the overworld an island, add a forest and a snow town on a large cliff. That would probably leave you with about 60 levels left to detail and add content.

I believe my mistake is that I decided to do overworlds as a way to show my portfolio to build on my reputation and not at all taking in to consideration of the players when I first started thus resulting in my work never being released to the community. The quality of the levels is there in the levels but like a lot of you guys have said - there just isn't a point to them. The best advice I can give anyone is to just plan everything before you start developing. I learnt my lesson the hard way; here's a snapshot of VS:C' when I first started developing it : http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/a...9&d=1116097048. I had no idea what I wanted to achieve and eventually I ended up with this (SEE ATTACHED). Now whenever I'm developing I'm taking into consideration the players and what they will do!
I have actually seen the towns I outlined with red from pictures you have posted on the forums and I really like them. I wish people still used that kind of styling. Your overworld is really pretty but like I said even if it were to goto classic people might visit the level once and never see it again which would be a waste of your hard work and the players time to go through that level. I'm not implying that a server can't have a few pointless levels because it's bound to happen.
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  #51  
Old 06-07-2010, 08:36 PM
Bell Bell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanDaMan View Post
The last time I checked you only need 100 levels to get a server online providing it were full of content for players not to get bored. You could easilly manipulate this to your favor, for example; make the overworld an island, add a forest and a snow town on a large cliff. That would probably leave you with about 60 levels left to detail and add content.

I believe my mistake is that I decided to do overworlds as a way to show my portfolio to build on my reputation and not at all taking in to consideration of the players when I first started thus resulting in my work never being released to the community. The quality of the levels is there in the levels but like a lot of you guys have said - there just isn't a point to them. The best advice I can give anyone is to just plan everything before you start developing. I learnt my lesson the hard way; here's a snapshot of VS:C' when I first started developing it : http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/a...9&d=1116097048. I had no idea what I wanted to achieve and eventually I ended up with this (SEE ATTACHED). Now whenever I'm developing I'm taking into consideration the players and what they will do!
Curious where you got the whole idea of 100 levels. I don't recall there ever being anything said with that much specificity.
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  #52  
Old 06-07-2010, 08:54 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubical View Post
if it were to goto classic people might visit the level once and never see it again
So what? It's gonna happen anyways. Even if it was made so well people had to visit it a few more times, it's still eventually going to just 'rot away' by itself on the overworld. You can't force people to 'admire' a level past its purpose.
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  #53  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Spark910 Spark910 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Curious where you got the whole idea of 100 levels. I don't recall there ever being anything said with that much specificity.
I seem to remember some old rules listing specific numbers of outside levels at about the time I joined PWA, whenever that was (2003-2004?).
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  #54  
Old 06-08-2010, 12:35 AM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
So what? It's gonna happen anyways. Even if it was made so well people had to visit it a few more times, it's still eventually going to just 'rot away' by itself on the overworld. You can't force people to 'admire' a level past its purpose.
I think an important thing is to always have something interesting in every part of the overworld. This is not only because purposeful levels are "better".

A big reason is that if you are running around with the expectation that there is nothing cool to find, it'll be boring. But. if you are running around with the expectation that there is great stuff everywhere, it'll be fun to even run around.

Since actually having stuff builds the expectation, I think doing something like this would make exploration in Graal much more interesting.
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  #55  
Old 06-08-2010, 01:03 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
I think an important thing is to always have something interesting in every part of the overworld. This is not only because purposeful levels are "better".

A big reason is that if you are running around with the expectation that there is nothing cool to find, it'll be boring. But. if you are running around with the expectation that there is great stuff everywhere, it'll be fun to even run around.

Since actually having stuff builds the expectation, I think doing something like this would make exploration in Graal much more interesting.
My objection is not against whether levels need to have purpose or not, but that big overworlds automatically = bad. Sure, there is a huge margin for error, but it's equally as bad to make a boring and uneventful small overworld. The mindset needs to move away from big = bad and more to empty = bad. It's all about how the worlds are designed from a creative and skilled viewpoint, not from some empty numbers.
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  #56  
Old 06-08-2010, 01:23 AM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
My objection is not against whether levels need to have purpose or not, but that big overworlds automatically = bad.
I'd say there is a fairly strong relationship between "big" and "empty", which is maybe what this thread is warning? Dunno.
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  #57  
Old 06-08-2010, 01:28 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
I'd say there is a fairly strong relationship between "big" and "empty", which is maybe what this thread is warning? Dunno.
I don't think it's constructive to look at it in such a black and white manner though.
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2010, 03:53 AM
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Implement something on a server that leads players back to old areas, like Dusty's back and forth item thing. Go back and forth from new and old areas. Old areas you could not get to without certain things?
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:11 PM
Cubical Cubical is offline
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Typing on my phone and quoting doesn't want to work for some reason so bear with me and just. Look back a few post.

@scooter123: That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Kind on topic, I'm working on a 12x12 overworld in my spare time attempting to apply everything I mentioned in this thread in it. I currently don't have internet once again so I can't get a copy of dustys clean pics1 and have only got the outline of all the main parts done until I can get more tiles. Ill take a picture on my phone and post it when I get a chance.

@WhiteDragon: that's kinda what I meant but kinda not.

@Dusty: I'm not implying that big overworlds are bad but I think smaller overworlds are much more logical not only from a developeras stand point but from a players.
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  #60  
Old 06-21-2010, 08:32 PM
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Smaller or big overworlds. It's the lack of planning for a big overworld. A small overworld is simpler because staff will not get bored, stop and can get it done in a quicker time. When it is a big overworld the staff think it will be easy, but once they get a few levels done they realize how long it will take and do not plan it out at all.
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