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  #31  
Old 06-12-2006, 06:02 AM
Googi Googi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GryffonDurime
By your system, Etien could theoretically become a high ranking noble or general of a kingdom.
...

You realize how Koni is going to make this backfire for you, right?
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  #32  
Old 06-12-2006, 06:24 AM
ApothiX ApothiX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konidias
1. npc kings don't have mood swings and family issues and personal dilemmas which cause them to be corrupt or completely absent from the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konidias
- next you give them a mood variable. they could be happy/sad/angry/tired/sick/energetic whatever at any given time



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Originally Posted by konidias
- then give them a large database of mini-events to go through... such as maybe they are going to rest, eat, check on the castle, do something else... etc this is where you can even include "go to war with some other kingdom". it would just be a very slim chance of it happening compared to "take an afternoon nap".
Are you saying that wars against kingdoms will be completely random, and have no base whatsoever?
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  #33  
Old 06-12-2006, 10:20 PM
konidias konidias is offline
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There's a difference between giving them moods that the DEVELOPERS and myself can predict, and actual human emotion.

The wars will have base. They will either happen because of user actions over a period of time, or they will happen using a random scenario. All wars happen because of some random scenario, so I don't really see your debate here.

Googi, I'm creating a semi-realistic npc king... not complete and total artificial intelligence. Like I said, it can have emotion and personality, but you can't have complicated conversations with it. All aimbots are, are simply phrase generators that use keywords as their trigger action. You say "cheese" or something and it picks a phrase based on that keyword and spits it back at you. If you put something in the form of a question, it will try to use the keywords to answer.

I don't want people just talking with the king all the time. I'm pretty sure that's not allowed in real world scenarios anyway... You can't just walk up and privately talk to the king whenever you feel like it.
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  #34  
Old 06-12-2006, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konidias
I don't want people just talking with the king all the time. I'm pretty sure that's not allowed in real world scenarios anyway... You can't just walk up and privately talk to the king whenever you feel like it.
If the king was hip you could!
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  #35  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:21 PM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GryffonDurime
I'll just say this:

Just as NPC kings can not be corrupt or arrogant, they also can not be creative, flexible, or understanding. To try and reduce RPing, which is at it's most simple level interaction between people, to a catagorical system is not only of great dificulty, it's also more than a little insulting. That NPC may not be able to favor one person over another and that NPC may not have a life that gets in its way, but it also can't adjust for unforseeable circumstances or tell someone deserving of promotion and what little simulated power will be given from someone who isn't.

By your system, Etien could theoretically become a high ranking noble or general of a kingdom. He did roleplay. Numerical systems would be forced to recognize that. But did he roleplay well? Did he follow Graal's canon? Did he deserve ANY prestigue or power?
First off... since when have the majority of past kings been creative, flexible, and understanding?

Secondly... you have an extremely radical definition of RPing. That is where you and I differ so much. You have this preconceived notion of what roleplaying is, and I have the right answer. Roleplaying has nothing to do with interaction between other people. It has everything to do with playing a specific role. That is all. Anything else is just stuff you have tacked on to the definition and not true in the least bit.

NPC Kings however, will create COUNTLESS situations for you to interact with other real people. I don't see how that is so much different from a player king, aside from the fact that you are minus 4 whole people to interact with. God forbid.

No an NPC king cannot adjust to unforseeable circumstances, but the people scripting it and developing it can.

I guarantee that the npc king, given database information on the players in its kingdom, will be able to tell the difference between a normal roleplayer and a great roleplayer. The only possible way anyone could abuse the system is if they were to know the script and how the script works. Otherwise, it should work fine. Even if they were to somehow obtain the script and abuse it, it would be far too obvious and it would be taken care of.

Like I said, there will be real live people watching over who is roleplaying well and decently and badly. This will be a factor in what your ranking in your kingdom is.

I don't even know this Etien but I can imagine you don't like him very much and think he didn't roleplay the way you wanted him to... or whatever. But you speak of the scripting as a "numerical system" like it's just going to work like getting a high score in a game, when in fact it's totally different. The large decisions will rest heavily on the shoulders of the RP admin team.
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  #36  
Old 06-13-2006, 05:20 AM
zim5354 zim5354 is offline
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will everyone have the same HP etc? or can you up it by questing like in old G2K1?
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  #37  
Old 06-13-2006, 05:26 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zim5354
will everyone have the same HP etc? or can you up it by questing like in old G2K1?
Everyone starts with 3 whole hearts and there are 4 half heart quests, for a total of 5 hearts.
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  #38  
Old 06-13-2006, 10:33 PM
Questa Questa is offline
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Can script the NPC kings to take in to account what his subjects want him to do? For instance if 90% of whatever kingdom wants to go to war, he'll give in to pressure instead of robotically denying war or whatever.
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2006, 12:18 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questa
Can script the NPC kings to take in to account what his subjects want him to do? For instance if 90% of whatever kingdom wants to go to war, he'll give in to pressure instead of robotically denying war or whatever.
I think robotically declaring war after 90% of his kingdom wants it wouldn't fix anything.

Maybe there can be a guy in each kingdom who handles the well being of the kingdom's people, and he can ask you what you think about things like other kingdoms or the kingdom you're in, or whatever... and your answer would be a factor in decisions made by the king. That's totally possible. That way it's more like a vote... and if... say... some players from another kingdom piss off a few players from a different kingdom... those few players can't all just vote to go to war and then it happens. But those votes would at least make a war with the other kingdom more likely to happen.
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  #40  
Old 06-14-2006, 10:52 PM
Kuza Kuza is offline
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Am I the only person who doesn't want player kings/queens/royalty?
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  #41  
Old 06-14-2006, 11:06 PM
GryffonDurime GryffonDurime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
Am I the only person who doesn't want player kings/queens/royalty?
Yes.

The King used to act as unifying force behind the kingdom, an event organizer, and a roleplaying facilitator. While you can argue that there were some bad kings, the fact that there were good kings who made the game so good...
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  #42  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:02 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
Am I the only person who doesn't want player kings/queens/royalty?
I'm sure you're not alone. It's just that most people aren't sure that my plan will work either. So it's up in the air right now.

Really I'm not 100% sure it will work myself. But I feel that it's worth a shot, or else I'd play it safe and not change anything. But obviously I'm changing many things with the server to try and improve them, so it's not surprising that I'd take a risk with kingdoms.
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2006, 05:30 PM
Kuza Kuza is offline
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Quote:
The King used to act as unifying force behind the kingdom, an event organizer, and a roleplaying facilitator. While you can argue that there were some bad kings, the fact that there were good kings who made the game so good...
With the right amount of NPC programming this could properly be done. Tell me what the difference between an NPC king and a player king is?

For me, it's the fact an NPC king is pre-programmed to make certain decisions and the player king can make any decision... even the wrong ones. (e.g. the destruction of the old kingdoms)

Quote:
Really I'm not 100% sure it will work myself. But I feel that it's worth a shot, or else I'd play it safe and not change anything. But obviously I'm changing many things with the server to try and improve them, so it's not surprising that I'd take a risk with kingdoms.
Kingdoms are not vital to the success of Graal2001. It's merely a fun option. Being able to trade, earn gralats and collectibles is. That's what brought people back. Competition amongst other players.

Maybe it's just me thinking this... but kingdoms sort of coincides with the economy-based Graal2001. Whilst roleplaying is very fun... metaphorically speaking , it's sort of like looking at a plate of food; scrambled eggs, bacon, gravy and tater tots. It's there but it doesn't fit.

If kingdoms are implemented it should be done right. I think everyone would agree with that statement. And with a little time and tinkering I am sure it will fit perfectly into the server.

Edit: I am not Konidias. The views and opinions in this thread do not reflect those of everyone in this thread.
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Last edited by Kuza; 06-16-2006 at 12:46 AM..
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  #44  
Old 06-15-2006, 05:47 PM
ViCtOrEhEhEh ViCtOrEhEhEh is offline
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2006, 06:54 PM
Skyld Skyld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
With the right amount of NPC programming this could properly be done. Tell me what the difference between an NPC king and a player king is?
An NPC king cannot be anywhere near as dynamic as a player king can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
For me, it's the fact an NPC king is pre-programmed to make certain decisions and the player king can make any decision... even the wrong ones. (e.g. the destruction of the old kingdoms)
Eh, you are willing to throw away, again, more gameplay just because of a couple of mistakes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
Kingdoms are not vital to the success of Graal2001.
Why not? They were a part of the gameplay and the environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
It's merely a fun option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
Being able to trade, earn gralats and collectibles is. That's what brought people back. Competition amongst other players.
Joining a kingdom is also competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
Maybe it's just me thinking this... but kingdoms sort of coincides with the economy-based Graal2001. Whilst roleplaying is very fun... metaphorically speaking , it's sort of like looking at a plate of food; scrambled eggs, bacon, gravy and tater tots. It's there but it doesn't fit.
Most of Graal does not 'fit', but that does not stop it being successful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuza
If kingdoms are implemented it should be done right. I think everyone would agree with that statement. And with a little time and tinkering I am sure it will fit perfectly into the server.
But your idea of 'right' is having NPCs make decisions! That is ruling out half of the idea of having kingdoms. Note 'king' in the word 'kingdom'.
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