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  #1  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:18 PM
MattKan MattKan is offline
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Stroseria Closing

I'm sure it doesn't really matter to you a whole lot, but we have come to a consensus and are shutting down the server. We've been working on it since July 2011 and have some cool stuff done, but, times are changing. The staff who are the life of the server are starting to grow up; quite frankly, it's hard to motivate people who have a billion other things going on in their life.

The main issue we're facing is that Stefan's policies aren't too popular around our server. We planned and developed our server from an iOS standpoint, and it's become extremely obvious that it just isn't going to happen. It was supposed the be the MMORPG for Graal iOS, but with Zodiac to compete with on PC and Delteria and Zodiac now on iOS, it's foolish. I guess it's somewhat understandable for Stefan to ignore us and put us at the bottom of his priority list, but several staff have put thousands of hours of man-power into the server so the whole thing seems a little ridiculous. Even though I may not be the biggest supporter of Thor, what Stefan did to him really got to me. What's the point of developing a server when all we have to look forward to in the future is either Tigairius removing us and trying to take over or Stefan trying to take over our server and use our content in a way we never wanted?

That being said, we'd like to offer the biggest kudos ever to those of you who are working to keep this game going. I remember Dusty once making a thread called "Your welcome, Eurocenter" and Stefan completely avoiding the topic and closing it. But to all the developers, the people working hard on iClassic, iEra, Graal the Adventure, Delteria, Zone, and every other server on Graal, who have stuck with Graal and made it what it is: I offer my greatest and most sincere thanks. You guys have changed the lives of thousands of people by doing what you do, and I just want you all to know how grateful I am and how grateful the other staff on Stroseria are. Thank you very much for all that you've done for this game, and we really can't wait to see what you have to offer to us in the future.

I'd like to take this opportunity to commend my staff team. They're truly the best people I've ever worked with in my life; I don't want you guys to think that this server's shutting-down is because of any of them. Specifically I'd like to give my thanks to Aya for always working her absolute best to benefit the server. She's probably one of the most hardworking and insightful people I've ever met on this game. Thanks also to the community for supporting us.

For all the work that went to waste, we're exploring other options for it. We want to have it see the light of day, so we might try to work something out with Stroseria or just find something else who is capable and willing to continue it. Seeing "Stroseria" release, though, is probably never going to happen, and I will almost certainly not be a part of it. We may just release the content in a .zip on the main forums and leave it for the vultures to consume; but I'm not worried about that at the moment.

This is getting too long, but I feel like I've been here too long not to say something.
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Originally Posted by Satoru Iwata
On the other hand, free-to-play games, if unbalanced, could result in some consumers paying extremely large amounts of money, and we can certainly not expect to build a good relationship with our consumers in this fashion. In order to have a favorable long-term relationship, we would like to offer free-to-play games that are balanced and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unximad
Eurocenter Games remains attached to the values of indies game developer and to the service our playerbase community.
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:21 PM
Fulg0reSama Fulg0reSama is offline
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To MattKan: It's completely understandable from what I've read of your lament to feel, best of luck to any future ventures.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:32 PM
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:32 AM
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I'm sorry it didn't work out. One problem is that some staff think Classic is "low quality" and can easily be remade and expect their server to go on iOS easily. But it's actually the opposite, releasing a server on iOS actually means it must be quite polished. People expect that the game is working, items are not disappearing, it's not buggy or slow, they have stuff to do etc. That's why we cannot release many servers and we have also work to maintain the current servers. We originally planned to release Zone last year, but it took another year to finish it (we are currently working on that). Possible future iOS games are Delteria, Zodiac, Kingdoms.
We plan to make it easier in the future to release on iOS, Facebook etc. though. It will still be good to first plan for a release on PC (hosted, classic server) instead of trying to make it iOS only.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:45 AM
MattKan MattKan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
I'm sorry it didn't work out. One problem is that some staff think Classic is "low quality" and can easily be remade and expect their server to go on iOS easily. But it's actually the opposite, releasing a server on iOS actually means it must be quite polished. People expect that the game is working, items are not disappearing, it's not buggy or slow, they have stuff to do etc. That's why we cannot release many servers and we have also work to maintain the current servers. We originally planned to release Zone last year, but it took another year to finish it (we are currently working on that). Possible future iOS games are Delteria, Zodiac, Kingdoms.
We plan to make it easier in the future to release on iOS, Facebook etc. though. It will still be good to first plan for a release on PC (hosted, classic server) instead of trying to make it iOS only.
We talked about trying to release for PC but decided our server was too similar to Zodiac. Our server was inspired with the goal of creating the MMORPG server that the iPhone players had asked for. When we started, in Summer 2011, Zodiac iPhone was cancelled and Delteria iPhone wasn't even conceived. We contacted you with our plan, and you kept telling us you would definitely check us out.

But you never did, and whenever I've noticed you and decided to ask you about it on PC servers, you kept saying the same thing. Don't you think it's a little unfair that we were just trying to improve your game and you constantly gave us the runaround? Couldn't you have just told us this from the beginning?

Now we've just wasted a lot of time. We all have thousands of hours on the server from when we were working... we made sacrifices on Graal and in our real lives in order to work on this server. Couldn't you have been honest with us and given us five minutes of your time in exchange for thousands of hours of man-power?

We wanted to make a Graal server, and we went after the role we saw. We were 100% willing to dedicate ourselves completely and work our butts off, and he did for quite a while. It's not a question of not understanding the amount of work it took; I think we've shown on multiple occasions that we were willing to work hard every step of the way, so it's not fair for you to say that. It's too late to just turn around and release for PC when we never planned we'd have to compete with Zodiac... and quite frankly, none of us want to directly complete with Zodiac.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satoru Iwata
On the other hand, free-to-play games, if unbalanced, could result in some consumers paying extremely large amounts of money, and we can certainly not expect to build a good relationship with our consumers in this fashion. In order to have a favorable long-term relationship, we would like to offer free-to-play games that are balanced and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unximad
Eurocenter Games remains attached to the values of indies game developer and to the service our playerbase community.

Last edited by MattKan; 11-26-2012 at 02:03 AM..
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:02 AM
xXziroXx xXziroXx is offline
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Getting a server to pass a Classic inspection is hard enough, and only Zodiac, Maloria & Graal the Adventure has done that in the past... 6 years? All three of those servers had very high quality content from a development point of view, made from some of the best developers on Graal in their respective areas of expertise.

Passing an iOS inspection would be ever harder. You'd literally have to be close to bug free and have your things extensively tested before it can be used.

Not to sound rude, but based on everything I've seen personally from Stroseria, your content quality is no where near the same level of either of the three previously mentioned servers. So... based on that, it's pretty obvious that you guys were expecting far too much.

And now you're doing what countless of other servers have done before you and will be doing after you; giving up.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
It will still be good to first plan for a release on PC (hosted, classic server) instead of trying to make it iOS only.
And what about the subscription policy and harsh trial restrictions which make it extremely difficult to build up a sustainable new community?
Plus if a group of new developers were ever to launch a server on PC, wouldn't they still have to keep re-purchasing Gold to even be able to continue working on it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by foxstar70 View Post
It was your own decision to develop for Classic though, Stefan didn't force you to. And you disrespected Stefan so you basically got what you deserved.
Completely irrelevant and the same can be said of every Graal server that ever existed. I would also like to iterate that most people don't see both sides of the story, and it is something which stretches back much further than just the last few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKan View Post
We contacted you with our plan, and you kept telling us you would definitely check us out.

Now we've just wasted a lot of time. We all have thousands of hours on the server from when we were working... we made sacrifices on Graal and in our real lives in order to work on this server. Couldn't you have been honest with us and given us five minutes of your time in exchange for thousands of hours of man-power?
I can concur with this, in a total of 12 months attempting to propose different plans and ideas towards the removal of observer mode, not once did I ever even receive an answer of "no", or any sign that our plans had actually been read. Either responsibility was skirted, or emails were simply not replied to. The one instance a suggestion was made to us, something I did not explicitly say no to, it turned out to be Stefan's intention all along, so it wasn't really a suggestion.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:15 AM
MattKan MattKan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Getting a server to pass a Classic inspection is hard enough, and only Zodiac, Maloria & Graal the Adventure has done that in the past... 6 years? All three of those servers had very high quality content from a development point of view, made from some of the best developers on Graal in their respective areas of expertise.

Passing an iOS inspection would be ever harder. You'd literally have to be close to bug free and have your things extensively tested before it can be used.

Not to sound rude, but based on everything I've seen personally from Stroseria, your content quality is no where near the same level of either of the three previously mentioned servers. So... based on that, it's pretty obvious that you guys were expecting far too much.

And now you're doing what countless of other servers have done before you and will be doing after you; giving up.
One thing we've had a problem with was even getting iOS tools. I realize that an iOS inspection is a huge, daunting obstacle, but we didn't even get the ability to come close to that. Another issue we've had is staff not wanting to / being incapable of paying for gold. So while the owner has generously paid for gold for some of the staff, he can't really pay for it all. It's a slap in the face when you see unreleased servers like Delteria that don't even require gold to develop. We've had trouble getting staff because 1) they don't want to pay and 2) they want to use the iOS tools so they can actually test their work, and Stefan offers that on other servers but has neglected ours. I never contacted him about becoming an iPhone server tomorrow, and I didn't even contact him about not paying for gold... I just asked for the tools so that applying for inspection could be somewhere in the distant future. That's really all we're asking for in all this; we know that our server needs work, but it's hard to inspire morale to make it possible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satoru Iwata
On the other hand, free-to-play games, if unbalanced, could result in some consumers paying extremely large amounts of money, and we can certainly not expect to build a good relationship with our consumers in this fashion. In order to have a favorable long-term relationship, we would like to offer free-to-play games that are balanced and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unximad
Eurocenter Games remains attached to the values of indies game developer and to the service our playerbase community.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:20 AM
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What kind of magic "tools" are you looking for?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
What kind of magic "tools" are you looking for?
I thought the same, there are no tools?
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Clash: One of my staff removed my RC and banned me.
Clash: I didn't ban or remove their RC after I got another one to fix me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:24 AM
MattKan MattKan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
What kind of magic "tools" are you looking for?
Just the ability to test our server on iOS devices.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satoru Iwata
On the other hand, free-to-play games, if unbalanced, could result in some consumers paying extremely large amounts of money, and we can certainly not expect to build a good relationship with our consumers in this fashion. In order to have a favorable long-term relationship, we would like to offer free-to-play games that are balanced and reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unximad
Eurocenter Games remains attached to the values of indies game developer and to the service our playerbase community.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:42 AM
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Well, everything is turning back to how "poorly" this game is being managed. But at the end of the day it is a developer's platform that shouldn't be taken so serious. Stefan is very busy and it'd be unlikely for anyone to be able to address any requirements from developers next to working on the client itself, and managing everything, including iOS servers.

It is apparent he's a programmer, not a manager of any kind. He could hire a team in Paris to do managerial work for him to fix the problems and address suggestions, but I'm assuming he'll never do that.

So, there you have it. Take it or leave it. Graal can be a fun medium for development and easily sharing it with friends, that is as far as I'd personally render it as.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:50 AM
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A non serious development platform charging approximately $50 for 12 months of being able to "play"?

Easy to share work with friends?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
A non serious development platform charging approximately $50 for 12 months of being able to "play"?

Easy to share work with friends?
Assuming you live in a first world country like the majority of people on the internet - yes, easy to share. $50 Every 6 months for server rentals really isn't that much, you'd spend that on a Friday night or two.

Playing is free of charge.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:20 AM
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They're still working on a Zodiac release?
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