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  #226  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:10 PM
Googi Googi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
People cannot construct benificial posts when they do it when they are angry. that has been proven so many times on these forums.
Why are we focusing on the moderation of the forums as if it will solve all Graal's problems? There are a lot more issues that need to be discussed, and suggestions added to.
Focusing on one area=bad idea.
Who's stopping people from talking about other issues? And both me and Draenin already said it wouldn't solve all Graal's problems.
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  #227  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:13 PM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene159
People cannot construct benificial posts when they do it when they are angry. that has been proven so many times on these forums.
Uh, I've known some people who still make beneficial posts when they're angry. That part I'm going to have to disagree with, because its a case-by-case thing.
  #228  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:14 PM
Darlene159 Darlene159 is offline
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Originally Posted by Draenin View Post
Uh, I've known some people who still make beneficial posts when they're angry. That part I'm going to have to disagree with, because its a case-by-case thing.
Some can, yes
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  #229  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Googi View Post
I wonder if Moon Goddess is even going to try to claim that her moderation method is profitable to Graal.
Who could, without lying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
No, I am not going to spend pages defending myself again, that is not what this thread is about. It is up to Unixmad to decide whether or not it is profitable, and act accordingly, as I am doing the job as he wants it done.
And so far, Unix is in trouble financially, that means he's been doing something wrong, comprende?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuJi View Post
Well.. when it comes to forums... our post gets deleted if it's what you don't like to here.

It's like a communist place.. y'know?


Anyway, I find the suggestions I and other memmbers made wouldn't mean huge changes to graal, but changes in how they deal with their potential and current customers. You'd be supprised at how much it would help.
  #230  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:33 PM
nikomi946 nikomi946 is offline
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1. Advertising is extremely important. What people don't know about they can't play.

2. Convenient payment methods, several have been suggested.

3. The ability to make partial payments or annual payments. To make it more pallettable by parents who are concerned about spending a larger sum for a game they aren't even sure their kid will play for more than a week. Or for teenagers to pay for that have an extremely limited income.

4. More defined differances between account types. Trials should be able to play as they would as a full player but for a limited time. Say a one month trial period. If they can experience all types of playerworlds they may be more inclined to land on one they enjoy and stay. 3 or 4 account types should be sufficient.

5. This ones going to get a lot of hate mail I'm sure but have it cost a small fee of a couple dollars to form a guild. This would not only create some revenue but eliminate many of the garbage guilds. A guild should still be transferrable however.

6. If it costs to build, maintain and upgrade a playerworld you may get better quality worlds instead of temporary worlds only formed so someone gets bragging rights about how they have their own world to hang out on until everyone disappears on them out of boredom.

7. Terms and conditions for all companies are subject to change. There is no reason Cyberjoueurs should be any differant. If things don't change and graal is gone, you guys won't have a forum on which to complain on and you'll get so very very bored. Forums don't generate revenue, they just give a voice to limited public opinion.
  #231  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:38 PM
Lord Sephiroth Lord Sephiroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene159 View Post
that's business. A business can never make everyone happy, it is impossible.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
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  #232  
Old 10-08-2006, 11:45 PM
Infernix Infernix is offline
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@Moonie/Any other Moderators.

Im just going to note there are many reasons why graal is having problems. 1 of them is moderation and Im sorry Moonie but I have to say as a Moderator it would be good if you would just accept that kthx.

This thread has been swerving between many problems and concerns please just let the players freely disucuss this in order to try bring some light to Unixmad and the Graal Administration.

You may think Moderation on these fourms is not a problem for graal its self but that is your own opinion and obviously for a long time not one shared by many many others.

Last edited by Infernix; 10-09-2006 at 12:01 AM..
  #233  
Old 10-09-2006, 12:11 AM
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The problem, as I see it, is that we're trying to draw business to a storefront that's been "Open During Construction!" for years now. When people walk into our metaphorical storefront, they see a faded sign on a whiteboard welcoming them to the fast-paced world of the 90s (website problem). The escalator's broken so they have to climb a ladder to get to the second floor (newbie learning curve). Once there they find the greeter's been on break, but yeah, there's a one-time membership fee to shop here. A great deal, our shopper thinks - Costco charges annually - I can deal with a little dust for a while...but soon he realizes the construction's never going to be done, and scalps the membership card to the next poor sap to walk in (needs to be email xfer fees).

Thus suggest I:
Priority 1 needs to be our website. For the love of Bruges, not another complete overhaul - graphically it's fine - but we need new content. New times and dates on the news. Preferably, deputize the various Game/Event Coordinators to post directly, fire whoever abuses their privelege.
Subpriority 1: For that matter: Distribute the website. It's still based on Graal having a finite number of official worlds. It needs to be Classic Worlds, Gold Worlds, VIP Features, and each category links you to the official list of "external" links. Click Classic Worlds, Delteria, and you find yourself on Delteria.Graal.Com/ - a simple template website, no fancy flash or anything, just their nav panel on one side, an Upgrade link (that routes back to https graalonline so they can upgrade FROM the PW site but ON the official site). That way Delteria can scrape together $80 to advertise their own "game" on BobAndGeorge.com, instead of hoping to get a slice of the new customers Unixmad's bringing in.
Priority 2, but damn near Priority 1 (maybe co-priority 1) - we need an official tutorial, a world that all newbies will be intrinsically drawn to where they can learn their skills in relative safety, a hook, a place to get them addicted to the possibilities of Graal. I say we patch up Classic, but I'm nostalgic that way. (Incidentally, thanks Sam, glad you liked the Classic Questline.) Kingdoms, unless things ever got fixed, is entirely too brutal to a Level 1 - You can only make money by fighting, which you shouldn't do/can't safely do until level 10...everything is/was based on diamonds...I'll pass. You can't even farm without money, or mining at least...I digress. THE POINT IS, newbies need to play a game where someone's always telling them where they SHOULD go (not necessarily where they need to, I'll grant), and where they don't get frustrated until they're well past the point of no return. No sense getting newbies if we're just gonna have bunnies bite their heads off.
Priority 3 - One last bit of polish, we need to button our collars and slick out hair when it comes to administration. No more fighting in public, no more encouraging riots. If we need another GM, I can come back for a few hours every day; if I can get a secretary to organize the issues before I pop on, I can tear through the debates of which global's corrupt and stay on top of things. If the globals are safe, they can keep an eye on the local Owners, who can keep an eye on the division chiefs, who can keep an eye on their minions. We used to have a tree structure: Unixmad and Stefan only have to deal with corrupt GMs, etc....let's bring that back, let people know who to appeal their jailing on Maloria to. (incidentally, you appeal to the jailing officer; if he's corrupt, you appeal to the police chief; if HE's corrupt, you appeal to a PWA; if HE's corrupt, GM; only if the GM is corrupt do you bug Stefan, and that should never happen.)
Priority 4 - Advertising. Advertising is important, but it's also the last thing to worry about. Bobandgeorge.com's got a real nice banner ad, and they're a fairly popular sprite-comic; maybe the most, I dunno. Point is, people are reading about customized Mega Man characters eating ice-cream - you tell 'em they can play this free game and customize a Zelda character, it's tempting. Don't even hit 'em up with the flat-price upgrade for a while. For that matter - this is gonna be unpopular with Unixmad, but I still think it's a good idea - on the Newbie Server Only, allow free accounts. There, I said it. Free Classic. We're trying to addict players to the game, THEN get them to give us money. Free Classic would naturally be a low-overhead world...and ideally, as soon as the newbies have finished upgrading they want to go to other worlds, and get away from all these freaking newbies and their stupid halos.

Under No Circumstances Revoke Our Guarantee Toward Lifetime Classic. I can't stress enough how dangerous that'd be, it'll destroy the players' remaining trust towards the administration. Instead, a few ideas on things that are worth paying for:
1) A few dollars for an Expansion. How many expansion packs are there for Neverwinter? And the PW owners have already signed on for adding premium content; if instead of paying for a few months of VIP where something may-or-may-not be released, you pay for something which definitely exists and you definitely get to keep. The only trick is making it premium content on every world, huh? Every world gets Bomies at the same time? Every world gets new classes? A study would have to be comissioned on what would define a global Expansion Set. Unless you just wanted to make little cheap expansions for every world, but I wouldn't recommend that really...it's one thing to buy a Graal Expansion and get Bomies on most worlds, new Classes opened on others, new races available on some (Blood Elves anyone?), and of course you get to predownload all the graphics for this Expansion Pack...
And in the Very Unlikely Event some PWs decide to hold out and not participate in an expansion pack, they don't get to use the upgraded server software that is installed at the same time as said expansion.
2) The Global Quest - an easy retrofit. All you'd need is global strings. Global.(playerworldname).(index#)="String". I've said it at least a dozen times by now, but if Delteria can set "Global.Delteria.0=MainQuestDone; Global.Delteria.1=[your appearance here]", then you can start a new player on Maloria and, since in this example they're such good friends, in Maloria you "inherit" a free pair of DelteriaMaster Boots and you look a lot like your Delteria ancestor. Hey, if I have to be Gold to tie all my favorite worlds together in a global quest to chase a villain through each of them and save the universe, I'm game.
3) Email transfers need to cost like $10. If people are illegally transferring lifetime accounts, they need to stop. For security, both ours and theirs, their password should change at least once a year, and be emailed to the original accountholder. Give people a grace period at the start, a month where our active players can change over their email one last time for free, and after that it's $10. If they give/sell their account, they either have to pay Graal $10 or send the new owner their new password every so often...a dangerous inconvenience.
4) A lot of talk about a new Gold Server. I imagine everyone who suggests it has a particular world in mind. If it comes to it, I'll make one...I got the notes to make it, I'd just need a team and an unfortunately huge ammount of support from Stefan...naturally, it's all stuff that hasn't been done before, so it won't be easy to pull off.

Sorry, had to move this one PAST the bickering in the hopes someone would see it. Can we return to the discussion?
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  #234  
Old 10-09-2006, 12:13 AM
zim5354 zim5354 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernix View Post
@Moonie/Any other Moderators.

Im just going to note there are many reasons why graal is having problems. 1 of them is moderation and Im sorry Moonie but I have to say as a Moderator it would be good if you would just accept that kthx.

This thread has been swerving between many problems and concerns please just let the players freely disucuss this in order to try bring some light to Unixmad and the Graal Administration.

You may think Moderation on these fourms is not a problem for graal its self but that is your own opinion and obviously for a long time not one shared by many many others.
True but she wont realize that and I doubt she ever will.
  #235  
Old 10-09-2006, 12:22 AM
smirt362 smirt362 is offline
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Is Fairyland still arround? Do people actually play it? Maybe you should cut your losses there?
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  #236  
Old 10-09-2006, 01:39 AM
Demisis_P2P Demisis_P2P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyhm View Post
Priority 2, but damn near Priority 1 (maybe co-priority 1) - we need an official tutorial, a world that all newbies will be intrinsically drawn to where they can learn their skills in relative safety, a hook, a place to get them addicted to the possibilities of Graal. I say we patch up Classic, but I'm nostalgic that way. (Incidentally, thanks Sam, glad you liked the Classic Questline.) Kingdoms, unless things ever got fixed, is entirely too brutal to a Level 1 - You can only make money by fighting, which you shouldn't do/can't safely do until level 10...everything is/was based on diamonds...I'll pass. You can't even farm without money, or mining at least...I digress. THE POINT IS, newbies need to play a game where someone's always telling them where they SHOULD go (not necessarily where they need to, I'll grant), and where they don't get frustrated until they're well past the point of no return. No sense getting newbies if we're just gonna have bunnies bite their heads off.
UN

Most servers used to have a tutorial at the very start. Classic had one that taught you about pushing and pulling block, jumping over edges, choosing an appearance, fighting baddies, using bow and bombs, etc.

No point having a whole world devoted to newbies, since they're not going to be newbies very long.
  #237  
Old 10-09-2006, 02:08 AM
Draenin Draenin is offline
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My suggestions:

1. Rework the way the subscriptions work. Unlimited Classic status being gained through VIP is not a bad idea, but don't suddenly drop that status from players who currently have it.
2. Create a new website layout, but one that is driven by a lot of the players, similar to the older version of the page. (Where server administrators can post news for their server and so on, as well as PWA, GST, and other Globals, and of course, Cyberjoueurs Staff.)
3. For servers still running that haven't been paid for in years, scrap them, sending notices to the owners of termination.
4. Do something about the current Gold servers. Either put them to classic and work on yet another New World Project, or find something else which may add to them.
5. Work on developing a tookit for 3D playerworlds, which would give players an opportunity to develop them. In the meantime, if the engine is buggy, let it be buggy. Graal was very buggy when it first began, but was eventually molded to be way more stable through a lot of various fixes.
  #238  
Old 10-09-2006, 02:19 AM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
UN

Most servers used to have a tutorial at the very start. Classic had one that taught you about pushing and pulling block, jumping over edges, choosing an appearance, fighting baddies, using bow and bombs, etc.

No point having a whole world devoted to newbies, since they're not going to be newbies very long.
I should know, I made it. :-)

(it promptly broke when NPCServ was put on, and later proved to be the gauge for how compatible a particular System NPC was covering for the old clientside defaults)

I still think a server is necessary; one, so there will be a demo server for Trials, and two, so these Trials will have plenty of room to explore while they learn to love our humble little game. We're not getting many newbies signing on for $30 just wandering around whichever server happens to be at the top of the list, not-saving, not-talking or whatever other restrictions they have nowadays...and we'll get even less at $60. It'll mean bringing back all the old Trial Account problems - IP Banning entire ranges to keep people from just Making Another Account, etcetera...but on a dedicated, well-structured server, that might not be a problem. After all, if it takes an hour to get through the newbie quest before you're allowed to PK, how much damage can a trial-account-wielder do? One nuisance an hour, tops. Unless he has a fleet of accounts queued up, in which case he's dedicated rather a lot of time already to the game...okay, yeah, I'm seeing the flaw in my plan. Enforcement on a Trial Server would be considerably more time-consuming than on any server, and all for the opportunity to entice Newbies into playing.
Of course, with security tight enough (Trials can't affect the gameworld in any meaningful way, including PKing, being PKed, dropping money on the server, spamming, etc) it'd just encourage the Trials to sign up...say, take the Classic that is (or UN, but I like the idea of sticking with our quest-heavy roots), fix it up, and modify the Trials' rules so they can save, or use a password, or whatever, but are otherwise Ghosts. They can see everyone having such a good time, they can play through the quests and see how much better it would be if they could really have the Multiplayer Experience, of course they petition for a birthday present. And while I'll admit I don't know a great deal about serverside security these days, it seems like it'd be a cinch to say "A ghost-newbie-trial is trying to drop bombs in the bank while walking through walls? Ignore him, don't even tell the other players."
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  #239  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:00 AM
Devil Devil is offline
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I wonder if Fairyland is getting the big kick aswell as Graal when it comes to this.
  #240  
Old 10-09-2006, 05:45 AM
zim5354 zim5354 is offline
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I wonder if Fairyland is getting the big kick aswell as Graal when it comes to this.
Why dont they just cut there losses with Fairyland, come on how many people actually play that anyway?
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