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  #16  
Old 10-07-2012, 06:08 PM
TheGodAngelo TheGodAngelo is offline
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Originally Posted by StormYs View Post
This.

I have no clue why people are accepting this, it's a reversed world.
i just like to create, don't hate me
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2012, 06:14 PM
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Given this is a volunteer-ran game and I don't really make any money doing it, I'm completely over intentional stressing myself with development, and prefer to work on what I want and with people I like.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:50 PM
DrakilorP2P DrakilorP2P is offline
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Hiro I've seen you post some cool ideas occasionally. You should make your own playerworld, get some of the basics finished, and then ask if anyone wants to help out.
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2012, 09:14 PM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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Why not contribute to an existent server that's going downhill. As opposed to making something new that will go downhill.


In case you haven't noticed, PC Graal is stretched thin. None of the servers look like appealing, playable games, and they're all too different to see a large shared playerbase. You're not going to "save" the game with a new server, no matter how quality it is. What you can do is address present faults. Giving people a reason to stick around is far more feasible than creating something to bring people in (the latter isn't the Graal developer's job anyway).
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  #20  
Old 10-07-2012, 09:25 PM
TheGodAngelo TheGodAngelo is offline
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Not to mention you'd be fighting the games owners every step of the way until they just ban you.
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:05 PM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakilorP2P View Post
Hiro I've seen you post some cool ideas occasionally. You should make your own playerworld, get some of the basics finished, and then ask if anyone wants to help out.
I am incapable of bringing a team together to work on a server, apparently, so I will never have any of my ideas see fruition.

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Why not contribute to an existent server that's going downhill. As opposed to making something new that will go downhill.

You're not going to "save" the game with a new server, no matter how quality it is. What you can do is address present faults. Giving people a reason to stick around is far more feasible than creating something to bring people in (the latter isn't the Graal developer's job anyway).
Creating something new is going to be what makes players stick around.

You know as well as I do that the only people sticking around are those who have been playing a long time with the random iPhone kid who shows up every once in awhile. And you know that whenever a new server is released, even if it's old and busted, the player-count goes up and people get together. Now if there's an actual reason to stay on the server after the release population swell, then we'll have something worth playing. It could even be complete **** bare bones and it would be more worthwhile than say, UN or Classic.
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:28 PM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
You know as well as I do
You seem to be under the false impression that you actually know what you're talking about.

What you're doing is presenting a short-sighted idea, an ill thought out pipedream, and then talking out of your ass to defend it. You're not speaking up with some brilliant insight that's going to revitalize the game and usher in a new era, you're repeating the same blissful thread that has happened every few months for the past few years.

Another server won't fix anything. Everyone's had the same silly high spirits as you at one point, but it's quite blatant as to what the problem is: Graal isn't good. More servers - even a single, fantastic one - will just be the equivalent of sweeping the dust under the rug. It's not going to fix anything, just very briefly make it look less obvious. This has happened so many times before, and done nothing to improve Graal as a whole - because it's beyond improving. And why should it even be improved? Where is the motivation to create a wonderful server? Then what? You manage it, you update it. All for nothing. Until a few staff members drop out, get replaced with less enthusiastic and talented ones, oblivious to the original sight. And then the server becomes Endora. It becomes Delteria. It becomes N-Pulse or Shaded Legend. It becomes any one of the countless servers who owe their unexistence to your very line of thinking.

Look at the iPhone servers. Look at their popularity. It's not a matter of a good server. They excel because of their accessibility. PC Graal being successful and polished and playable is water from a stone by this point. iGraal has found a way to just sell the stones. PC Graal's problem is nothing related to the content. The content is what you'd expect from diligent (yet unpaid) developers. PC Graal's problem is the nonchalant administration who don't give a **** about working with the people actually responsible for their paying customers.

So instead of wasting your time and everyone's effort on a new server doomed to fail, why don't you contribute to what already exists and is known to keep players around? A fascinating new server isn't what dragged me back, with high hopes and determination for a fun game. The prospect of sitting in some level slightly younger than I am and chatting with a few friends did.
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:57 AM
PhantosP2P PhantosP2P is offline
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I don't think anymore could be said, in any better fashion, than what was just said above.

Change must come from without, not within. We are still waiting.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2012, 04:13 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
You seem to be under the false impression that you actually know what you're talking about.
Oh please.

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
What you're doing is presenting a short-sighted idea, an ill thought out pipedream, and then talking out of your ass to defend it. You're not speaking up with some brilliant insight that's going to revitalize the game and usher in a new era, you're repeating the same blissful thread that has happened every few months for the past few years.

Another server won't fix anything. Everyone's had the same silly high spirits as you at one point, but it's quite blatant as to what the problem is: Graal isn't good. More servers - even a single, fantastic one - will just be the equivalent of sweeping the dust under the rug. It's not going to fix anything, just very briefly make it look less obvious. This has happened so many times before, and done nothing to improve Graal as a whole - because it's beyond improving. And why should it even be improved? Where is the motivation to create a wonderful server? Then what? You manage it, you update it. All for nothing. Until a few staff members drop out, get replaced with less enthusiastic and talented ones, oblivious to the original sight. And then the server becomes Endora. It becomes Delteria. It becomes N-Pulse or Shaded Legend. It becomes any one of the countless servers who owe their unexistence to your very line of thinking.
This isn't wishful thinking or being optimistic. I'm saying every server on Graal is ****. You won't fix them. You won't make them better in some fashion. Graal has always been one new server after the next, and now it's just stale.

We won't solve the larger problems at hand. That's entirely up to the administration at this point. We've asked them for years for support and they don't give it, so what can developers do? At least a new server would be SOMETHING to do.

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
Look at the iPhone servers. Look at their popularity. It's not a matter of a good server. They excel because of their accessibility. PC Graal being successful and polished and playable is water from a stone by this point. iGraal has found a way to just sell the stones. PC Graal's problem is nothing related to the content. The content is what you'd expect from diligent (yet unpaid) developers. PC Graal's problem is the nonchalant administration who don't give a **** about working with the people actually responsible for their paying customers.
iGraal is popular because it's new - the accessibility is new. What has PC Graal had that is new recently of any worth? Maloria? Classic? Big ****ing deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
So instead of wasting your time and everyone's effort on a new server doomed to fail, why don't you contribute to what already exists and is known to keep players around? A fascinating new server isn't what dragged me back, with high hopes and determination for a fun game. The prospect of sitting in some level slightly younger than I am and chatting with a few friends did.
Maybe using Graal as a chat room is cool for you, but I want something more.
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2012, 04:56 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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Since your plan here is to ignore everything that addresses why you're wrong, I'll just do the opposite and respond to you piece-by-piece.

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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Oh please.
I was exaggerating, truthfully. There's actually harsher words for you that would be more appropriate.
Quote:
This isn't wishful thinking or being optimistic.
It's a pipedream, but a poorly considered one.
Quote:
I'm saying every server on Graal is ****.
Every server on Graal is fine, it's Graal that's any number of asterisk you wish to line up.

You thinking that Unholy Nation or Zodiac or whatever isn't up to par is an extreme example of setting the bar far too high. This medium is lower than many F2P MMOs and low-key indie games. You cannot seriously expect anything great from it. Every server is top notch for what they are.
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You won't fix them. You won't make them better in some fashion.
The only true fixing to be done is that done to people like you, not the servers. You're treating Graal like something it's not, and will never be. This is the height of it. If you have a problem with the current servers, the issue is you. The issue is a personal one. The issue has nothing to do with quality, is has to do with you not getting what you want.
Quote:
Graal has always been one new server after the next
No it hasn't, it's been the same lineup for years, and a very rare occurrence like Zodiac or Era coming out on top. These niches are filled, and the small community is strung very then between a few unique servers. Sure, "new servers" come up all the time. And they're always afterthoughts, they're always temporary, they're always not saving Graal. There's nothing to save. Stop suggesting that breaking up the tranquility because you're not the top dog on whatever server you play will somehow improve everything.
Quote:
We won't solve the larger problems at hand.
There's zero problems to be solved. You're not a brilliant rebel leader trying to rally Graal together for the greater good. The ones with the bright ideas are people like Thor or fp4, just trying to make their server work.
Quote:
so what can developers do?
HINT: It's not this:
Quote:
At least a new server would be SOMETHING to do.
We've had new servers. There's always new servers. Graal's only true constant is that some idiot will always spring forth with a new server, clearly believing that it is exactly what Graal needs, only to realize that ****, these new servers aren't actually helping anything, and then they post a goodbye thread.

It's actually developing for the existent and somewhat lacking servers. That's a cause that will actually have a positive effect.
Quote:
iGraal is popular because it's new - the accessibility is new.
This doesn't actually make sense.
Quote:
What has PC Graal had that is new recently of any worth? Maloria? Classic? Big ****ing deal.
I don't understand how your reasoning is NEW THING = THE BEST THINGS. You're given new things, you're given in-name-only revivals. Why are those not satisfying to you? (I know why - it's because they're not the product of your suggestion. You're not actually delivering a thought out attempt to improve Graal, because what you suggest happens on a regular basis and quite obviously does nothing beneficial. But you will willingly ignore this 100% rate of failure that proves your futility, because the difference here is that is wasn't your idea.)

Like, I want to delve into this point deeper, but your train of thought is literally so shallow and... almost in reverse, that I don't think it's actually possible to reason with you any more complexly than just with a blunt, "no, you're wrong, this is why". But it's clear that you can't even comprehend that point, so I'll just let you continue on your merry way. Your ideal for "fixing" Graal is bad. It's baseless, it's shallow, it's happened a million times to no avail. I've cited multiple servers that were your exact plan, these "dream team" run servers that were meant to pump life into Graal, and they've only fallen into obscurity. You yourself have referenced servers that were meant to be the "next big things", only to fail.
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  #26  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:05 AM
papajchris papajchris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
The only true fixing to be done is that done to people like you, not the servers. You're treating Graal like something it's not, and will never be. This is the height of it. If you have a problem with the current servers, the issue is you. The issue is a personal one. The issue has nothing to do with quality, is has to do with you not getting what you want.

I 10000% agree with this.
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:33 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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If you agree with it so much, you should've fixed my typo so I wouldn't look bad!
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:16 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
Since your plan here is to ignore everything that addresses why you're wrong, I'll just do the opposite and respond to you piece-by-piece.
Oh yes, please do. Please show me my ignorance teacher.

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
I was exaggerating, truthfully. There's actually harsher words for you that would be more appropriate.
Honestly you've provided more than enough personal insult to warrant a warning by our wonderful mods. Wonder if that'll actually happen since it definitely would if I posted which such pathetic delusion of grandeur. (Y'know, aside from my usual swag)

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
Every server on Graal is fine, it's Graal that's any number of asterisk you wish to line up.
Hah.

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
You thinking that Unholy Nation or Zodiac or whatever isn't up to par is an extreme example of setting the bar far too high. This medium is lower than many F2P MMOs and low-key indie games. You cannot seriously expect anything great from it. Every server is top notch for what they are.
Hahahaha. Oh wow.

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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
The only true fixing to be done is that done to people like you, not the servers. You're treating Graal like something it's not, and will never be. This is the height of it. If you have a problem with the current servers, the issue is you. The issue is a personal one. The issue has nothing to do with quality, is has to do with you not getting what you want.
You're right - I treat it like a video game. For whatever percentage of the population like myself who play the game rather than create for it, it's not a development platform.

As for what I want, it's clear you don't understand it because you're a scrub who was never up to the challenge. As someone who wants Graal to be a chatroom, you have different priorities. If all you want is to chat, I'm sure the current servers seem just fine to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
There's zero problems to be solved. You're not a brilliant rebel leader trying to rally Graal together for the greater good. The ones with the bright ideas are people like Thor or fp4, just trying to make their server work.
Heaven forbid that those with the talent work together on one thing. To even have a thread to discuss the possibility of such a thing ever happening...that'd just be silly and attract some really pathetic losers to start arguing. Whoever comes up with something like that must have some ego, man.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
We've had new servers. There's always new servers. Graal's only true constant is that some idiot will always spring forth with a new server, clearly believing that it is exactly what Graal needs, only to realize that ****, these new servers aren't actually helping anything, and then they post a goodbye thread.

It's actually developing for the existent and somewhat lacking servers. That's a cause that will actually have a positive effect.
So we can never have another Era? We can never have another Zodiac?

As an extremely stupid suggestion, just for you, if the existing servers are such a priority, then why not have more cross-server staff? Pool those brilliant people together and have the improve together.

Oh but they won't work together right? Time to just let them work alone and wait on the administration to help them instead. That'll totally work, we've seen it work before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
This doesn't actually make sense.
At this point in my response, it doesn't matter if you do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
I don't understand how your reasoning is NEW THING = THE BEST THINGS. You're given new things, you're given in-name-only revivals. Why are those not satisfying to you? (I know why - it's because they're not the product of your suggestion. You're not actually delivering a thought out attempt to improve Graal, because what you suggest happens on a regular basis and quite obviously does nothing beneficial. But you will willingly ignore this 100% rate of failure that proves your futility, because the difference here is that is wasn't your idea.)
If I was really going to argue that it should be all my idea, then I would have posted some outline of what I think they should make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
Like, I want to delve into this point deeper, but your train of thought is literally so shallow and... almost in reverse, that I don't think it's actually possible to reason with you any more complexly than just with a blunt, "no, you're wrong, this is why". But it's clear that you can't even comprehend that point, so I'll just let you continue on your merry way. Your ideal for "fixing" Graal is bad. It's baseless, it's shallow, it's happened a million times to no avail. I've cited multiple servers that were your exact plan, these "dream team" run servers that were meant to pump life into Graal, and they've only fallen into obscurity. You yourself have referenced servers that were meant to be the "next big things", only to fail.
Like, I want to be mean to you, but I know Darlene will moderate me to being banned again, and instead of just going along with the topic of the thread you just argue these straw-mans.

How about you stop focusing on your bias towards me and genuinely answer?
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:32 AM
kia345 kia345 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
How about you stop focusing on your bias towards me and genuinely answer?
Okay, go back to page one and read essentially every response you've gotten, included mine that you've blatantly ignored in favor of "but im rite".
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:53 AM
PhantosP2P PhantosP2P is offline
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I'm still willing to bet Valikorlia would take any of you starry-eyed developers.
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