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  #16  
Old 04-22-2016, 04:55 AM
callimuc callimuc is offline
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Offline editors are running way smoother and you aren't that easily distracted. They are simply more development orientated. And online tools have "more features" because they havn't been outdated for years.

Would have loved to create my own project in an updated offline editor and then eventually start it on the online client itself.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2016, 07:07 AM
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offline editors are essential
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2016, 02:13 PM
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If I was a relatively new player interested in trying my hand at development, what would be the process for accessing an online editor?

Now compare that with being able to open an offline editor, which method is more convenient and likely for that interest to be followed up on?

Don't get me wrong, I understand how online editors can be more convenient for existing server staff, but that only applies to a fraction of the potential development pool.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:52 PM
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Online development tools are amazing for experienced developers with access to servers, but a big reason why there's a developer drought compared to a couple of years ago is because new developers have no way to get into things.

Think about it, how did most of us start development? I know I started by simply noticing Graal had an editor client in it's installation folder, which I started playing around with for fun. As I got more and more experienced, I took development more and more serious, and I'm still here today.

I wouldn't have ever gotten into it if it wasn't for that offline client. New players today does not have that option at all.
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:47 PM
Tim_Rocks Tim_Rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticalDragon View Post
Well graal decided to use ONLINE tools, since the game is a 100% online game.
To be honest, we don't really care what Graal decided. This isn't about what you want, it's about what the players want and care about. And we want easily obtainable development tools available to anyone interested in development.

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Why would offline tools make it head in a better direction?
Offline tools that are easily obtainable encourage development. This is what made Graal unique and stand out amongst other games. The original offline editor allowed me to practice my level design until I had enough decent examples of my work to get a position on Era.

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All the resources should go to improvising the client to be more sturdy.
That's why I suggested open source tools. We have very talented players on Graal that would be happy to put their skills to use.

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Originally Posted by MysticalDragon View Post
There is already enough "online" tools that have the same features if not more features then the offline editors.
Those tools are only relevant on a server you happen to be staff on. You're basically asking players to pay to get the basic tools they need to develop.

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offline editors are essential
Crono said it best.
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  #21  
Old 04-23-2016, 01:32 PM
BlueMelon BlueMelon is offline
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I don't even think Graal would need to invest much to get something up and running.

Check out this open source project: http://www.mapeditor.org/ (https://github.com/bjorn/tiled)

Not sure how easy it would be to adapt to the level file format graal uses, but the editor is super nice.

Is there any ressources that explains graal's level data encoding? If not there should be, since everything seems to be community driven now anyways
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2016, 06:40 PM
Tim_Rocks Tim_Rocks is offline
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Check out this open source project: http://www.mapeditor.org/ (https://github.com/bjorn/tiled)
Pretty slick, it didn't take me long to start making levels in it. Levels are saved in xml format - so there's no easy way that I can think of to convert a level to .nw format. That's why I'd like to see the source code for the original editor.

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  #23  
Old 04-23-2016, 10:12 PM
BlueMelon BlueMelon is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks View Post
Pretty slick, it didn't take me long to start making levels in it. Levels are saved in xml format - so there's no easy way that I can think of to convert a level to .nw format. That's why I'd like to see the source code for the original editor.

You can create custom export plugins in python or c++, that would be your best bet.
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  #24  
Old 04-24-2016, 01:47 AM
Tim_Rocks Tim_Rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueMelon View Post
You can create custom export plugins in python or c++, that would be your best bet.
I like that idea. There's likely nothing we can do about NPCs, gmaps, or images. Those are the things I'd like to see added to it.

This would be the most ideal type of editor for Graal:
https://github.com/elias-schuett/Online-Tile-Map-Editor

You'd run it in a web browser (easier to support). I'd have to do more digging to find out what would need done to add additional features to be more ideal for development.

I did find the source code for Gonstruct - https://github.com/fry/graal-gonstruct. It could be worth while to figure out the bugs instead.

Thoughts?
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  #25  
Old 04-24-2016, 02:49 PM
BlueMelon BlueMelon is offline
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Used Gonstruct once and last time I logged onto graal I always used the online tools...

Not sure what's wrong with it in the first place
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  #26  
Old 04-24-2016, 03:25 PM
Tim_Rocks Tim_Rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueMelon View Post
Used Gonstruct once and last time I logged onto graal I always used the online tools...

Not sure what's wrong with it in the first place
It would always crash on me.. As for online tools, they require you to be online and be staff on a particular server.

Most staff teams won't hire inexperienced players. The only alternatives are Testbed (which has a strict rule for level development), or buy your own server.
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2016, 05:07 PM
racil racil is offline
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If there was a working editor you didn't need server access to it would be nice if it was available from the login screen so new players would have an easier way finding it too.
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2016, 07:48 PM
Tim_Rocks Tim_Rocks is offline
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If there was a working editor you didn't need server access to it would be nice if it was available from the login screen so new players would have an easier way finding it too.
I've never liked any of the existing online level editors. It mostly has to do with being disconnected all the time. I'd prefer avoiding online tools for stability purposes.

We could easily create a fork of the tiled editor and customize it to fit Graals needs.
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2016, 04:56 AM
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Not sure if I was unclear or if I misunderstood the response. I meant offline editor. Login screen, not login server.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2016, 09:39 AM
callimuc callimuc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticalDragon View Post
No idea TestBed was down, will get it back up.
Kinda off topic, but as we should use online tools: when is it back up?
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