Graal Forums  

Go Back   Graal Forums > Graal V6 forums > Questions about V6
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:07 AM
Ter13 Ter13 is offline
Almost useful
Ter13's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Ter13 is on a distinguished road
.NW Level capabilities and file format

I'm looking for more information on .NW levels' capabilities, and have found a distinct lack of documentation on the web.

I've heard that the .nw files allow multiple layers to be used, how is this stored in a file?

So far, I've gathered the simple file format for a one layer map.

Quote:

file header:

GLEVNW01 - Don't quite understand the meaning here, possibly what version of NW the file uses?

file body:

For each horizontal row containing any modifications:

BOARD - Prefix for board data
(real) - X position of the board data (always seems to be zero. Can this change?)
(real) - Y position of the board data
(real) - Run of the board data (can this go above 64?)
(real) - Layer of the board data

(string)[run] -Contains tile data (each tile is 2 characters A-Z-a-z-(+/))

NPC - Prefix for Oldscript NPC data
(string) - Contains NPC's image file (- if no image)
(real) - NPC X position on the board
(real) - NPC Y position on the board
(string) - Contains entire NPC's script
NPCEND - Marks the end of the NPC

file footer:

File is null terminated
So far, my main questions, are:

1) OldScript NPCs are deprecated, right? How would one place new NPCs?

Obviously, Graal maps using the fourth Cartesian quaternion (I.E. 1,-1 through xINF,-xINF) however, mappings are stored as though in the first quaternion (I.E. 1,1 through xINF,xINF), which took me a second to adapt to before I could read the tile data from the file in raw form. I'm quite a bit perplexed by a few things.

Any comments or advice would be much appreciated.

Last edited by Ter13; 07-14-2008 at 03:25 AM.. Reason: Thanks to Dusty for pointing out my inaccuracies!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:15 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
Will work for food. Maybe
DustyPorViva's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 9,589
DustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to DustyPorViva Send a message via MSN to DustyPorViva
Rise of the board = layer. It's always 0 because the default layer is always 0.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:21 AM
Ter13 Ter13 is offline
Almost useful
Ter13's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Ter13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Rise of the board = layer. It's always 0 because the default layer is always 0.
Alright, that's very helpul, and actually answers almost all of my questions! Many thanks!

Is it possible to create maps larger or smaller than 64x64, or is that a set in stone limitation, that is achieved by using GMaps?

I've also been wondering something for a bit, with the GMap feature, will multiple tilesets be shown at once, let's say you are on the border of a desert, which uses a completely different tile set than the grassland you stand on. In this case, the map to your left will be visible, due to the GMap's linking feature, but will it use the tileset you assign the desert maps, or will it use the grassland tileset that you have assigned the current map?

One more thing: How many layers can a map have, and can these layers overlay the player? Or is it all defined by the title data, what blocks and what doesn't?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:32 AM
Crow Crow is offline
ǝɔɐɹq ʎןɹnɔ
Crow's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,153
Crow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond reputeCrow has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
Is it possible to create maps larger or smaller than 64x64, or is that a set in stone limitation, that is achieved by using GMaps?
You can only have levels with a size of 64*64, and get bigger "maps" by using gmaps.

Quote:
I've also been wondering something for a bit, with the GMap feature, will multiple tilesets be shown at once, let's say you are on the border of a desert, which uses a completely different tile set than the grassland you stand on. In this case, the map to your left will be visible, due to the GMap's linking feature, but will it use the tileset you assign the desert maps, or will it use the grassland tileset that you have assigned the current map?
It would use the tileset you assign to the desert levels. Only one tileset can be used/shown at once.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2008, 04:53 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
Will work for food. Maybe
DustyPorViva's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 9,589
DustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to DustyPorViva Send a message via MSN to DustyPorViva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
Is it possible to create maps larger or smaller than 64x64, or is that a set in stone limitation, that is achieved by using GMaps?
I've played with this. I've edited the levels in wordpad and changed their size, smaller and larger than 64x64. Smaller, and it fills the empty tiles with 0x0 tiles. Larger, and it crops it down to 64 anyways... so simply, no. He added the capability, I guess in case he ever wanted to add the feature, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
I've also been wondering something for a bit, with the GMap feature, will multiple tilesets be shown at once, let's say you are on the border of a desert, which uses a completely different tile set than the grassland you stand on. In this case, the map to your left will be visible, due to the GMap's linking feature, but will it use the tileset you assign the desert maps, or will it use the grassland tileset that you have assigned the current map?
addtiledef is done level by level. You can add it specifically to desired levels on a gmap, so yes, you can achieve this. I never done it, but I assume it does work. You can also use addtiledef2, which will without a doubt probably work. But if you want desert tiles in the desert region, simply addtiledef/2 to each of the desert area levels, SPECIFICALLY(addtiledef("desertiles.png","overworl d_k-13.nw"), for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
One more thing: How many layers can a map have, and can these layers overlay the player? Or is it all defined by the title data, what blocks and what doesn't?
Infinite, as far as I know. And no, you can't have overlaying tiles(because of the way the tile system is done). I've requested this, but no luck.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:11 AM
wild8900 wild8900 is offline
Mr. Brightside
wild8900's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 418
wild8900 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to wild8900
So whats the use of several layers of tiles if they cant overlay and be over the player?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:19 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
Will work for food. Maybe
DustyPorViva's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 9,589
DustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to DustyPorViva Send a message via MSN to DustyPorViva
They would still be very useful, if there was any feasible way to use them. Mainly for eliminating multiple tiles for various terrains.

But ya, it sucks you can't draw them over the player(would remove the use of probably 50%+ NPCs made just to draw something over the player).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2008, 07:23 AM
Ter13 Ter13 is offline
Almost useful
Ter13's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Ter13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild8900 View Post
So whats the use of several layers of tiles if they cant overlay and be over the player?
With 24 bit PNG files, one can create transparent tile backgrounds, meaning, tile detail can be added without wasting tiles by putting specific backgrounds behind the detail item. There are a lot of uses, just not usually from the perspective of Graal classic-themed graphics.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2008, 07:54 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
Will work for food. Maybe
DustyPorViva's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 9,589
DustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond reputeDustyPorViva has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to DustyPorViva Send a message via MSN to DustyPorViva
Yet, it all fails because WE HAVE NO EDITOR THAT CAN EDIT LAYERS!!!

****ity **** **** ****in ****.
Dammit.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2008, 07:58 AM
wild8900 wild8900 is offline
Mr. Brightside
wild8900's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 418
wild8900 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to wild8900
XD Do it by hand. When I make tile based games I do the levels by hand.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-14-2008, 08:13 AM
zokemon zokemon is offline
That one guy...
zokemon's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sonoma County, California
Posts: 2,925
zokemon is a jewel in the roughzokemon is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to zokemon Send a message via AIM to zokemon Send a message via MSN to zokemon Send a message via Yahoo to zokemon
I've shown many uses of tilelayers to the Graal community even without being able to overlay players, etc.

And about the editor: If you all really want a level editor with good tilelayer support, tell Stefan to fix the bugs in the new version that I reported 3 months ago as well as implement the taskbar button feature (so the external window will literally be treated like a seperate window with its very own place on your taskbar).

So far, I've heard people interested in the editor even managed to get a few people PM me about it but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that has been bugging Stefan about the features/bug fixes and I got very little support in my feature request/bug fix threads. So why bother, huh? I guess people think I have more power then I really do? I honestly don't know.
__________________
Do it with a DON!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-14-2008, 01:32 PM
xXziroXx xXziroXx is offline
Master of Puppets
xXziroXx's Avatar
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,288
xXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant futurexXziroXx has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to xXziroXx Send a message via MSN to xXziroXx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
1) OldScript NPCs are deprecated, right? How would one place new NPCs?
Uhm... you can use both GS1 and GS2 in NPC/NPCEND tags, it simply tells the level that there's a NPC at the location.
__________________

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." - Shigeru Miyamoto
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2008, 04:10 PM
Ter13 Ter13 is offline
Almost useful
Ter13's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Ter13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Yet, it all fails because WE HAVE NO EDITOR THAT CAN EDIT LAYERS!!!

****ity **** **** ****in ****.
Dammit.
Why do you think I'm asking? It's about damn time someone does something about it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-14-2008, 07:31 PM
zokemon zokemon is offline
That one guy...
zokemon's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sonoma County, California
Posts: 2,925
zokemon is a jewel in the roughzokemon is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to zokemon Send a message via AIM to zokemon Send a message via MSN to zokemon Send a message via Yahoo to zokemon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ter13 View Post
Why do you think I'm asking? It's about damn time someone does something about it.
*feels ignored*
__________________
Do it with a DON!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-14-2008, 08:28 PM
Ter13 Ter13 is offline
Almost useful
Ter13's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Korea
Posts: 29
Ter13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by zokemon View Post
*feels ignored*
Speaking of which, did you ever finish your editor? I saw the thread, and that was the big inspiration for me to make an editor. However, I never found a depot for it, or a release.

I'm working mine in Java. I've got the tile-selection and laying working, but I haven't gotten multiple tile modification or multiple layers working that well. Plus, I haven't built my NWFileStream class yet, so it doesn't load or save.

I've made a really ugly, hacky editor, so in a few days, it should be ready for public consumption, and in a week or two, the code should be cleaned up enough to put it on sourceforge as an open-source editor.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (C) 1998-2008 Linux cyberjoueurs All Rights Reserved.