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  #61  
Old 03-22-2009, 07:06 PM
Unkownsoldier Unkownsoldier is offline
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Stephen I get what you are saying but one other point it that if you log on to Graalonline you see content with Graalonlines name stamped to it not the creators. If you want to see who helped develop part of it you can go on Graal wiki but not to many players go there or even know about it. And if, if you even go there it only usually shows the manager the creator and few others who helped not the hundreds who made it what it is. All I am saying is that no one really gets credit for work other than Graal, see when you make furniture for a brand, you usually get your name up there not the people who actually make it but the people who designed it. Now some other places do the opposite they just have the brand name with no credit because the person who made it belongs to a company but they get payed instead of them paying the company.
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  #62  
Old 03-22-2009, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier View Post
not to many players go there or even know about it.
That will change hopefully with the hiring of a News Admin.
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  #63  
Old 03-22-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier View Post
Stephen I get what you are saying but one other point it that if you log on to Graalonline you see content with Graalonlines name stamped to it not the creators. If you want to see who helped develop part of it you can go on Graal wiki but not to many players go there or even know about it.
But that's not true. Graal Online hasn't ever branded the work of playerworlds as their own. Additionally, while it's true that a lot of the people who helped make playerworlds don't get officially recognized - that's not Graal Online's fault.

They're not actively trying to take credit, or silence the credit being given. They're not responsible for the decisions that managers make so long as they're ethically acceptable and within the rules of conduct.

I don't see why anyone would try to put the responsibility on Graal Online either. You have to understand that most playerworlds and even some Gold content is managed by young people who have very little experience working with large groups which is healthy & sustainable for the long term. They're the ones who decide to give credit - but I know it would really distract from the quality of gameplay if I started seeing everyone's signature on every little graphic and level...

Besides, you have to wonder what sort of person works solely for credit - to be recognized. Credit doesn't have the same motivation for quality and longevity - people have to have a passion for them individually, they're the ones who actually earn their credit... without writing their signature on every piece or demanding their namesake on a list.

You look at Alarid, for example. His graphics are beautiful and recognized. He has a passion for quality - not for credit.




This is the second time you've changed the subject of this thread - and I think the initial topic of the thread is very important. I'm sorry to scold, but I don't feel you're being very considerate.
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  #64  
Old 03-23-2009, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by fragman85 View Post
If there'll be ads for Graal, they should be about how easy it is to learn GS2, make their own Levels, and get Staff.

Because that is what makes Graal unique.
I agree that having GS2 (scripting language) is one thing that makes Graal unique though it shouldn't be advertised as purely a place to practice developing but rather as a package, which consists of both a Online Game and an area to further develop your scripting and so on.
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  #65  
Old 03-23-2009, 12:59 PM
Imperialistic Imperialistic is offline
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Originally Posted by fragman85 View Post
If there'll be ads for Graal, they should be about how easy it is to learn GS2, make their own Levels, and get Staff.

Because that is what makes Graal unique.
I don't understand..

Why wouldn't you advertise the game? Most people like playing games, they just don't want to hop in the boat right away and start developing.
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  #66  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:11 AM
DesolateRestriction DesolateRestriction is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
blah
Not many people are interested (nor have the time) in reading an essay about how to promote the growth of Graal. I acknowledged I did not know all the details of the -payment- system. I left out exact details because this thread was just to point out a few brief areas on WHERE we can expand and improve on.

Rarely does any management take the exact specifics of another's idea
and implement it. I realized that and decided that being brief and promoting thought and bringing a few new ideas to the table was the best course of action (how many threads do we have where players think they know EVERYTHING and decide to write an essay on it? Too many.) I also cannot help if the smallest little thing will offend you.
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  #67  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction View Post
Not many people are interested (nor have the time) in reading an essay about how to promote the growth of Graal.
That is the minimum amount of effort a person has to take before they work on more development to better Graal as a community.

Any person really interested in helping Graal will have to work first in a large group discussion to help finalize goals for the "development path". The reading and writing which will go into that alone will likely amount to a small essay on each person's part.

After the goals are finalized by the group each smaller unit will have to return to their respective servers and try to obtain each goal for themselves, tirelessly developing over a period of time agreed on by the group as a whole.



It's disappointing that a person interested in helping would suddenly lose all interest when faced with the reality of the effort, especially since you have superseded the whole communal problem for what appears to be personal insult.
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  #68  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:27 AM
DesolateRestriction DesolateRestriction is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
That is the minimum amount of effort a person has to take before they work on more development to better Graal as a community.

Any person really interested in helping Graal will have to work first in a large group discussion to help finalize goals for the "development path". The reading and writing which will go into that alone will likely amount to a small essay on each person's part.

After the goals are finalized by the group each smaller unit will have to return to their respective servers and try to obtain each goal for themselves, tirelessly developing over a period of time agreed on by the group as a whole.



It's disappointing that a person interested in helping would suddenly lose all interest when faced with the reality of the effort, especially since you have superseded the whole communal problem for what appears to be personal insult.
This isn't a finalization by any stretch of the imagination. No, someone does NOT have to write an essay to help throw in an idea or two and it's sad that you feel that way. I have no particular personal interest in this thread other than the ideas about growth/improvement of the game and her community.

If you are speaking about kownsoldier, it was a warning to the readers of the thread, not an insult. Since you're such an avid follower of only posting about
the original post's topic, why are you so determined to point out every little thing imaginable like a little girl with her feelings hurt?

But if you're not, then I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.
I AM interested in helping. I stated in the original post that if someone wanted details to forum PM me. If you're referring to the website section in my original post, I stated that it was partially flaming. Mostly just my opinion, but a majority agree with it. It gives a wrong first impression to new comers, I've tested it.

Where exactly are YOUR ideas? I didn't see them so much as I saw whiny criticism about a majority of the posts in the thread...

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  #69  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:31 AM
Imperialistic Imperialistic is offline
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  #70  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:08 AM
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A little harsh.
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  #71  
Old 03-24-2009, 10:21 AM
xXziroXx xXziroXx is offline
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Originally Posted by Imperialistic View Post
I don't understand..

Why wouldn't you advertise the game? Most people like playing games, they just don't want to hop in the boat right away and start developing.
Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform, while individual servers should be advertised as games.
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  #72  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform, while individual servers should be advertised as games.
Though Graal Online is both a development platform and a games server, therefore it should be advertised as so; a package, in which you can play and develop.
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  #73  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MiniOne View Post
Though Graal Online is both a development platform and a games server, therefore it should be advertised as so; a package, in which you can play and develop.
Except that the servers aren't made by Graal Online, only hosted. Each servers manager should advertise their server.
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  #74  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:40 AM
Stephen Stephen is offline
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Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction View Post
This isn't a finalization by any stretch of the imagination. No, someone does NOT have to write an essay to help throw in an idea or two and it's sad that you feel that way. I have no particular personal interest in this thread other than the ideas about growth/improvement of the game and her community.
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Any person really interested in helping Graal will have to work first in a large group discussion to help finalize goals for the "development path". The reading and writing which will go into that alone will likely amount to a small essay on each person's part
I'm emphasizing group work. Not individual development.
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If you are speaking about kownsoldier, it was a warning to the readers of the thread, not an insult. Since you're such an avid follower of only posting about
the original post's topic, why are you so determined to point out every little thing imaginable like a little girl with her feelings hurt?
It's kind of sad that, before development can even begin, someone is getting defensive. Any clear thinking person would recognize that I've been correcting poor assumptions - and they have, so far, been entirely neutral. Where you got the idea that I was "like a little girl with her feelings hurt" is beyond me, but I suppose it goes to show the maturity level of the community - and why I emphasize we need to improve the community before anyone should consider advertising.
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Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction View Post
But if you're not, then I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.
I AM interested in helping. I stated in the original post that if someone wanted details to forum PM me. If you're referring to the website section in my original post, I stated that it was partially flaming. Mostly just my opinion, but a majority agree with it. It gives a wrong first impression to new comers, I've tested it.
I'm not sure how, in one paragraph, you can rant like an unstable psych-ward patient, and the next try to reason like a normal human being. It makes it hard to take someone serious.

This is the second time you have taken the thread off topic to personally attack an individual - first was unknownsoldier, and now me. The difference is that I have been actively participating in the thread. I have been researching the concept for nearly a year now and you can find my conversations about it in three threads - which I can link to later if you can't find them.

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Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction View Post
Where exactly are YOUR ideas? I didn't see them so much as I saw whiny criticism about a majority of the posts in the thread...
Not everything is about shooting your mouth off, to randomly give ideas - that's not the first step. A group of willing participants needs to be organized first, so everyone can fairly discuss their ideas. That way the group can determine a "path of development".

I've also said that it would be nearly impossible to arrange and very unlikely to succeed - because people are so easily insulted, ignoring the long term goals for their own immediate feelings.
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  #75  
Old 03-24-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXziroXx View Post
Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform
You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.
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