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  #16  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:17 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
That seems to be the biggest reason why iPhone should just stay the **** away from PC Graal.
So you'd be mad that they'd be at a disadvantage? Why do you care?
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
That's quite possibly the worst logic I've ever heard. The more playerbase you get on Graal, period, the more players you're going to have on any given server. Back when Classic dominated the playerlist there were still 5-6 other servers with a playerbase of atleast 50, which is good.
Back when Classic dominated the serverlist most of the servers shared a similar level of external circumstances, that same logic can not be applied in this instance. For this to be the same again PC servers would not only need a better subscription format, but the luxury of also being cross-platform, which simply isn't feasible.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Now if you mean Classic will be overshadowed by iClassic, yeah probably. Who knows though, really.
I'm not necessarily referring to Classic, but it is arguably in a very good position to potentially aid PC Graal moving forward as its own entity. If it were to become overshadowed that would be setting a bad precedent.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
The only reason we've had a small influx of players in the past few years is because of the popularity Graal gained on the iDevice.
Which is why in the event of Stefan and Unixmad realising what internal factors made iPhone a success, and actually taking measures to apply that to PC Graal, combining it with the greater capabilities offered by a computer, could also gain a higher level of popularity (albeit nobody could foresee it reaching the same height on the PC market).
Granted, I doubt it.
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Complete nonsense. Side strafing is, imo, a technical advantage but it's not required to win even in high tier spars. Whether you like it or not the iServers are the only future PC Graal has. The only reason we've had a small influx of players in the past few years is because of the popularity Graal gained on the iDevice.
Well considering you are not, and never were in the high tiers of sparring, you have no idea what you're talking about. Strafing is a requirement for good sparring, period, and all good sparrers strafe.

And I don't like that "iDevices are Graals future," and I never will. And I don't have too. Not to mention PC Graal has not seemingly been supported (hardly) at all these past years would show that the only way Graal could have any popularity anymore is through the iDevices, which is entirely on Stefan and Unixmad's hands.

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Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
So you'd be mad that they'd be at a disadvantage? Why do you care?
Because I don't enjoy sparring against kids who can't even defend themselves against things us PC sparrers have long since been used too. I like a challenge.

The reason why sparring is even remotely skill based is because of the even-playing field. Equal movement speed, equal freedom of movement, equal damage dealt, equal starting health, and reduced/no lag are what make for great spars. If someone can't even maneuver the same way inherently because of the device they're on, I'll personally win 9/10 times just because they won't be able to avoid sidehits, or a simple blink movement.
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:11 AM
Rave_J Rave_J is offline
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the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again
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  #20  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:13 AM
Fulg0reSama Fulg0reSama is offline
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Originally Posted by Rave_J View Post
the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again
that problem will only get resolved through getting the word out about the game and selling the idea as something people would enjoy.
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  #21  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:32 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rave_J View Post
the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again
Because of ****ing observer mode.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:11 AM
NicoX NicoX is offline
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Making Accounts free and using f2p. people should be able to purchase whatever they want, so ATLEAST they dont have to pay gold for that stupid playercount on graal.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike View Post
Back when Classic dominated the serverlist most of the servers shared a similar level of external circumstances, that same logic can not be applied in this instance. For this to be the same again PC servers would not only need a better subscription format, but the luxury of also being cross-platform, which simply isn't feasible.
Again, not helping your argument. The fact that servers are so different would bring even MORE appeal to servers like Zodiac and Valikorlia. Whether a server is cross-platform or not doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffcmike
Which is why in the event of Stefan and Unixmad realising what internal factors made iPhone a success, and actually taking measures to apply that to PC Graal, combining it with the greater capabilities offered by a computer, could also gain a higher level of popularity (albeit nobody could foresee it reaching the same height on the PC market).
Granted, I doubt it.
There would be no more "PC Graal" "iPhone Graal" "Android Graal", yes you can play on multiple devices depending on the server, and yes things like spars would probably be seperated based on what platform you're playing on (computer / portable).

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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Well considering you are not, and never were in the high tiers of sparring, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ya what do I know. Zeross dominates the scene and I beat him on my first try and go back and forth every other time. I've only managed to take down Ares, Unleash, Squirt, Thallen, etc, but they're probably not top tier either right?

p.s my guildmates and I are the reigning champions of the largest spar tourney in Graal history. Feels good bro.

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Originally Posted by Hiro
Because I don't enjoy sparring against kids who can't even defend themselves against things us PC sparrers have long since been used too. I like a challenge.
lmao, I can see you getting stomped on iClassic with that ****y attitude.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Ya what do I know. Zeross dominates the scene and I beat him on my first try and go back and forth every other time. I've only managed to take down Ares, Unleash, Squirt, Thallen, etc, but they're probably not top tier either right?

p.s my guildmates and I are the reigning champions of the largest spar tourney in Graal history. Feels good bro.

lmao, I can see you getting stomped on iClassic with that ****y attitude.
Which tournament do you consider to be the largest? I always felt it was Graalympics, which no one from US ever won. Must be nice in this day and age to stand behind the likes of Ares and Brett and brag about how good your guild is at sparring.

I mean come on dude, have you ever even won UTC? You would lose to every single person you've mentioned in a series, easily if they're on top of their game.

It's nothing to take personally, and I don't mean it as such. You're still a decent sparrer, but I'm sure every single one of them would back me up when I say that strafing is an important movement in sparring, and that sparring without it is a handicap. It's common sense.

And my attitude towards iClassic makes it such that I would never log onto it in the first place.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Which tournament do you consider to be the largest? I always felt it was Graalympics, which no one from US ever won. Must be nice in this day and age to stand behind the likes of Ares and Brett and brag about how good your guild is at sparring.
There was only one real Graalympics and funny enough I was in it for the most unlikely server. The sparring section of that had, what, 8 competitors? The GST on FB alone rivals the playercounts of Graal's largest PC servers. Brett doesn't spar on iClassic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
I mean come on dude, have you ever even won UTC? You would lose to every single person you've mentioned in a series, easily if they're on top of their game.
No, and if I actually took sparring seriously and practiced in series vs top tier sparrers im confident I could take them. I spar once or twice then go ADD off to other games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
It's nothing to take personally, and I don't mean it as such. You're still a decent sparrer, but I'm sure every single one of them would back me up when I say that strafing is an important movement in sparring, and that sparring without it is a handicap. It's common sense.
Like I said, strafing is a technical advantage but you don't need it to win against someone of equal skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
And my attitude towards iClassic makes it such that I would never log onto it in the first place.
This is what I mean though, your view of iClassic spar is skewed.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
There was only one real Graalympics and funny enough I was in it for the most unlikely server. The sparring section of that had, what, 8 competitors? The GST on FB alone rivals the playercounts of Graal's largest PC servers. Brett doesn't spar on iClassic.
Quantity over quality? NJ won the biggest sparring tournament on PC Graal (I only took 3rd place ;_; ) although your FB tournament may have had more people in it. I guess we can just say the unofficial one didn't count, I mean Tortoise won that and who cares about that hacking ***got.

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No, and if I actually took sparring seriously and practiced in series vs top tier sparrers im confident I could take them. I spar once or twice then go ADD off to other games.
My point still stands then.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Like I said, strafing is a technical advantage but you don't need it to win against someone of equal skill.
I really, really doubt someone could win consistently in a series against someone with high skill who can strafe when they cannot. Taking a few spars is not the same as winning against them consistently, which is what real sparrers strive for.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
This is what I mean though, your view of iClassic spar is skewed.
I can't help but feel that it's inferior. Over 10 years of evolving metagame on PC sparring just inherently seems superior. iKids don't even know what sidehits are, may not realize PC Graal exists, and apparently think you don't need strafing! The hell kind of **** is that?
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
You do realize that without side strafing you can't even compete at higher levels of sparring right?
I don't think so. I've watched "higher level" sparrers spar, and not a single strafe was given that day.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Quantity over quality? NJ won the biggest sparring tournament on PC Graal (I only took 3rd place ;_; ) although your FB tournament may have had more people in it. I guess we can just say the unofficial one didn't count, I mean Tortoise won that and who cares about that hacking ***got.


My point still stands then.


I really, really doubt someone could win consistently in a series against someone with high skill who can strafe when they cannot. Taking a few spars is not the same as winning against them consistently, which is what real sparrers strive for.
Wait, wait, wait. Is all this really just to justify that strafing in a spar is reason enough to not converge the Graal community and re-vitalize PC Graal? None of that actually matters if spar rooms were dedicated to particular platforms and it doesn't effect high tier spars at all, so what are you complaining about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
I can't help but feel that it's inferior. Over 10 years of evolving metagame on PC sparring just inherently seems superior. iKids don't even know what sidehits are, may not realize PC Graal exists, and apparently think you don't need strafing! The hell kind of **** is that?
Graal's sparring metagame evolved slowly, whereas the iSparrers got a kickstart when the PC community began sparring there. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:28 PM
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I don't think so. I've watched "higher level" sparrers spar, and not a single strafe was given that day.
Praydoh a "higher level sparrer" lololol

And you do realize that there is strafing going on there right? Some of those movements are impossible without it. It's especially obvious when either of them blink, and Squirt utilizes the strafing better to move while holding the blink (and abuses walls like he always does) and looks like he won pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Is all this really just to justify that strafing in a spar is reason enough to not converge the Graal community and re-vitalize PC Graal? None of that actually matters if spar rooms were dedicated to particular platforms and it doesn't effect high tier spars at all, so what are you complaining about?
No. I have not been arguing about whether or not the two communities should converge, I've only been concerned with the sparring discussion of strafing. If the iCommunity complains about being at a disadvantage about not being able to strafe, I have to agree with them. It's a pretty large disadvantage, and they won't be a challenge for someone with access to it.

But let the two converge, whatever. I'll still dislike the platform they're on because it exists at all. As I've already mentioned, having Graal on iPhone makes me feel like PC Graal has been pushed aside, like they want it to just die out and be forgotten. Maybe that's not how Stefan or Unixmad view it, but that's how it feels to me, and others I've talked with share my sentiments. Not everyone of course, but a lot of my friends do, at least the ones who are left who still are my friends. Perhaps that opinion has died out even more - I haven't been able to log on in 5 months now since I've been in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Graal's sparring metagame evolved slowly, whereas the iSparrers got a kickstart when the PC community began sparring there. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
That was bound to happen, they had to be introduced to it somehow and obviously some PC players would get on the iDevices. If they can't even strafe then they won't have access to some strategies, at least not in the way they're typically used. I'm sure they'll eventually evolve their own metagame.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
No. I have not been arguing about whether or not the two communities should converge, I've only been concerned with the sparring discussion of strafing. If the iCommunity complains about being at a disadvantage about not being able to strafe, I have to agree with them. It's a pretty large disadvantage, and they won't be a challenge for someone with access to it.

But let the two converge, whatever. I'll still dislike the platform they're on because it exists at all. As I've already mentioned, having Graal on iPhone makes me feel like PC Graal has been pushed aside, like they want it to just die out and be forgotten. Maybe that's not how Stefan or Unixmad view it, but that's how it feels to me, and others I've talked with share my sentiments. Not everyone of course, but a lot of my friends do, at least the ones who are left who still are my friends. Perhaps that opinion has died out even more - I haven't been able to log on in 5 months now since I've been in Europe.
PC Graal was has been rotting from incompetence since v5's release. The iServers have raked in more players than we've ever seen on this game and PC Graal's only real salvation post subscription-fix is convergence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
That was bound to happen, they had to be introduced to it somehow and obviously some PC players would get on the iDevices. If they can't even strafe then they won't have access to some strategies, at least not in the way they're typically used. I'm sure they'll eventually evolve their own metagame.
Doesn't stop iSparrers from beating PC users and even hopping on FB and competing + beating UN based guilds like Mother (consisting of Talbourn, Zeross, etc) in the GST. Smurf if you have to, but I want you to make a fake FB, get on iClassic, and start sparring because your view is incredibly off.
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