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  #46  
Old 05-15-2010, 05:51 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Originally Posted by seanthien View Post
How can you say that, without actually playing the server for years on end?
I'm not understanding how those things Crono mentioned would fix anything.
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Originally Posted by MagikMasterMind View Post
Finally someone sharing the way I think.
Those ideas aren't to fix the playercount, it's to actually fix some of Zone's problems and suggest some subtle additions that should be easy to do. Being realistic helps. I wanna see Zone as it was in 2004 like any of you but there's really no going back.

Stephen wanted simple and doable ideas, that's what we should be giving him. It's our chance to suggest something and actually be listened to for once.
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  #47  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:20 AM
seanthien seanthien is offline
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Those ideas aren't to fix the playercount,
Than what is the point..?

Petty little things to make the game look nicer while attracting no players, and granting no income for Graal itself (Not like that's really a big one..).

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it's to actually fix some of Zone's problems
Zone's problem?
The game is too repetitive.
Trials aren't lacking much to anything anymore besides the classes..and of course there's the gelat system.

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It's our chance to suggest something and actually be listened to for once.
Wouldn't really be our fault if that doesn't occur much..

Why work on some tiny update every day that'll do close to nothing for the server and you won't receive credit for?
Do you want to become similar to SN's time as manager? I'm sure he did a lot of work, but all of it made no progress to Zone's playercount.

I'd rather you spend that tiny bit of time every day on a bigger release that'll effect the game, but maybe I'm being unrealistic like you said.
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  #48  
Old 05-15-2010, 08:04 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Originally Posted by seanthien View Post
Than what is the point..?

Petty little things to make the game look nicer while attracting no players, and granting no income for Graal itself (Not like that's really a big one..).
Because a positive change is just that. It's a step in the right direction. You start small then go big. Stephen has been thinking up of plans to use gelats and although I personally despise the system he has money in mind.

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Originally Posted by seanthien
Zone's problem?
The game is too repetitive.
Trials aren't lacking much to anything anymore besides the classes..and of course there's the gelat system.
I disagree, repetition is not a problem. There are many games with repetitive gameplay yet they are kept alive because of the changing metagame and the players themselves. It's like any other PvP based game like CS or Dota. Gameplay wise it's the same thing over and over yet it's the metagame that changes. That and updates to add nice spices.

Trials? Lol, I don't even consider logging onto Zone because trials/classics can't be a commando (since arctic is the only map I would want to play). 80 hp and guild restrictions? No thanks. I'd rather not have my data saved and start with 100 hp, take part in guilds, and get access to the fastest class on arctic than sit there crippled.

Gelat system I hate as well but, if you remember, Zone died before it was even thought of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanthien
Why work on some tiny update every day that'll do close to nothing for the server and you won't receive credit for?
Do you want to become similar to SN's time as manager? I'm sure he did a lot of work, but all of it made no progress to Zone's playercount.

I'd rather you spend that tiny bit of time every day on a bigger release that'll effect the game, but maybe I'm being unrealistic like you said.
Credit? Do you know how Graal works? The majority of the content is uncredited, look at any of the top 3 servers and then try asking your average Graalian who made what and they won't know. I don't know what SN did but when I logged onto Zone I didn't really see anything different.

I'd rather spend time getting the easy and simple things out of the way first and then move onto the hard stuff. It's like that with anyone you do, you should start with the simple things first then work your way up. This thread is for the simple things, even if they go unnoticed.
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2010, 09:00 AM
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.Make something new like a mission or quest for a reason to play and acheive stuff. Like if you beat this quest you can get money and a limited gun or melee weapon. And for harder quest on mission you can earn hp. Maybe this one can be for gold to earn more hp. These mission can lead to more player count and more fun.
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2010, 02:55 PM
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I really want to see a new tileset on Zone, but I'm not sure that is the easiest task.
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  #51  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:50 PM
seanthien seanthien is offline
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Because a positive change is just that. It's a step in the right direction. You start small then go big.
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Credit? Do you know how Graal works? The majority of the content is uncredited, look at any of the top 3 servers and then try asking your average Graalian who made what and they won't know. I don't know what SN did but when I logged onto Zone I didn't really see anything different.
I want to believe that's what SN tried to do, but without any real show in progess, I don't see many players supporting it. Same goes for Stephen.

Quote:
I disagree, repetition is not a problem. There are many games with repetitive gameplay yet they are kept alive because of the changing metagame and the players themselves. It's like any other PvP based game like CS or Dota. Gameplay wise it's the same thing over and over yet it's the metagame that changes. That and updates to add nice spices.
Crono, when was the last time you actively played Zone for more than a month?
Of course I haven't been particularly active, but I can at least say Zone has no metagame. The gameplay itself never changes. It's continuation of laming, and when a pvp event comes forth, any metagame is equivalent to laming.

You've been there for these updates, I think. What happens anytime a new weapon is released, a new planet? How long does that player count last? How long til someone pulls out a over-powered weapon and destroys the new community?

I'm almost always there for every update. Maybe deep down I'm still hopefully for the server, despite my pessimistic attitude for it. But, trying to please a player base you don't have is dumb. If you want to do small updates to maintain players, do it, but please attract players first, because without any real maintenance on the gameplay/weapons, you'll end up in a bigger hole.

Quote:

Trials? Lol, I don't even consider logging onto Zone because trials/classics can't be a commando (since arctic is the only map I would want to play). 80 hp and guild restrictions? No thanks. I'd rather not have my data saved and start with 100 hp, take part in guilds, and get access to the fastest class on arctic than sit there crippled.
Guild restrictions was a big one, yes. With the Squad system now, that's not needed anymore (?). Although squad and global guilds tend to mix.
I think the old system was better too, if you wanted to save, you upgraded, simple. Too bad it's not what Stefan thinks, one whom rarely plays and knows about his own game.

Commando is a personal choice, of course a majority of players tend to learn to love it, but it's not a requirement. I remember starting off using EP and Chaingun.

Quote:
Gelat system I hate as well but, if you remember, Zone died before it was even thought of.
Gelat is fine really, besides the balancing of weapons.
It should give an edge I suppose, but the boost you get from them is far too great.
Quote:
I'd rather spend time getting the easy and simple things out of the way first and then move onto the hard stuff. It's like that with anyone you do, you should start with the simple things first then work your way up. This thread is for the simple things, even if they go unnoticed.
Adding easy and simple content isn't a way to start. You're just delaying the real problem itself.
Zone has plenty of content from what I know, but no player base to support it.

This might prove true to a server with a steady player count going for it, but not for one that averages 1-5 on a daily basis.
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  #52  
Old 05-15-2010, 09:54 PM
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More reason to try to win a game on Iricia, so it's not just a baselaming war, such as a bigger cash reward or something.

Also, something to toggle the bars above your head, because it makes me lag (unless there's a way to do it already that I'm not aware of).
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  #53  
Old 05-16-2010, 04:10 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanthien View Post
Crono, when was the last time you actively played Zone for more than a month?
Of course I haven't been particularly active, but I can at least say Zone has no metagame. The gameplay itself never changes. It's continuation of laming, and when a pvp event comes forth, any metagame is equivalent to laming.

You've been there for these updates, I think. What happens anytime a new weapon is released, a new planet? How long does that player count last? How long til someone pulls out a over-powered weapon and destroys the new community?

I'm almost always there for every update. Maybe deep down I'm still hopefully for the server, despite my pessimistic attitude for it. But, trying to please a player base you don't have is dumb. If you want to do small updates to maintain players, do it, but please attract players first, because without any real maintenance on the gameplay/weapons, you'll end up in a bigger hole.
The last time I actively played Zone was right after it died. There was no reason to stay there any longer so I left. The better question is, when's the last time anyone actually played Zone for more than a month?

How can you deny Zone's metagame? It used to have a pretty solid one revolving around countering weapons when people actually fought eachother. Laming wasn't a big problem and amongst the actual good sparrers it's not an issue.

Yeah, weapon updates tend to be overpowered but that's not the kind of updates we're talking about here. I also have ideas for zomg big updates but this isn't the place for that.

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Originally Posted by seanthien View Post
Adding easy and simple content isn't a way to start. You're just delaying the real problem itself.
Zone has plenty of content from what I know, but no player base to support it.

This might prove true to a server with a steady player count going for it, but not for one that averages 1-5 on a daily basis.
How is it not? Zone has always had problems and quirks, isn't it better to start with these simple ones then work your way up to the bigger ones? What ARE the big problems anyway? The answer will change between player to player but I found a pretty strong correlation between trials getting shanked and playercount dropping. Just sayin.
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  #54  
Old 05-16-2010, 05:38 AM
seanthien seanthien is offline
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
The last time I actively played Zone was right after it died.
That's not a precise time, and from what you say afterwards, I'm guessing it's a very long time ago, meaning you're slow on how the server's developed.
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
There was no reason to stay there any longer so I left. The better question is, when's the last time anyone actually played Zone for more than a month?
Now, be reasonable, people do still play. I know some folk that log on at least once a day. Maybe not for long, but they do.
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
How can you deny Zone's metagame? It used to have a pretty solid one revolving around countering weapons when people actually fought eachother. Laming wasn't a big problem and amongst the actual good sparrers it's not an issue.
This is what makes me think you haven't been updated on how things work.
As of now, too many players pull out an obsessive overpowered weapon and decide to lame players.
Besides, what's more fun? Everything Zone does, it always ends up with players on iricia laming the other base.

Oh, lets not forget how we'll gather up all our friends so all the "pros" don't fight each other and we're left getting kills and exp by newbies consistantly.

Crono, I was ET during the time period it died, I'd like to say I brought the server back (Seeing as a majority of the players online I had some connection with). I brought back the newer generation of Zone whilst doing so. I know what's going on.
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Yeah, weapon updates tend to be overpowered but that's not the kind of updates we're talking about here. I also have ideas for zomg big updates but this isn't the place for that.
It may not be, but Zone isn't the place to start off with simple updates either.
It needs a change, something dramatic.
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
How is it not? Zone has always had problems and quirks, isn't it better to start with these simple ones then work your way up to the bigger ones? What ARE the big problems anyway? The answer will change between player to player but I found a pretty strong correlation between trials getting shanked and playercount dropping. Just sayin.
It's not, because Zone has no steady player count. Zone's reliant on players, meaning if you have players that are on for a time period doing something, a few others join, and more, a chain reaction.

Simple updates, like new weapons, vehicles, whatever, should be to maintain a player count the way Zone is. None of these will change the metagame for long, if it does, it'll make the game more horrid.

Trials getting shanked? I feel that's just your own personal vendetta since..well..that one time you logged on and realized what had happened.
I knew a bunch of trials that enjoyed being able to save now. They only lose so much now. Something most players would upgrade for. Otherwise they could play it out.

Player count dropping is because of many things.
Jesse's thread pretty much covers that portion.
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  #55  
Old 05-16-2010, 05:55 AM
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If Zone can't pull off simple updates/fixes, what chance does it have of pulling anything off?

Of course we all want that magical update that makes 50 players play on the regular again but that's just completely unrealistic especially considering how understaffed they may be.

There's no sense overworking on a large update that could possibly flop, and leave you with burned out staff members.
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  #56  
Old 05-16-2010, 06:26 AM
seanthien seanthien is offline
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If Zone can't pull off simple updates/fixes, what chance does it have of pulling anything off?

Of course we all want that magical update that makes 50 players play on the regular again but that's just completely unrealistic especially considering how understaffed they may be.

There's no sense overworking on a large update that could possibly flop, and leave you with burned out staff members.
Did you read that thread I linked?

No way that's unreasonable.
If you can't do that, because you're understaffed, there's a problem, and part of it may as well be you.
Get the picture? (This isn't directed at you, of course)

rushed edit
Small updates won't help the server, it'd be a waste of time and effort.
Mine as well put that to better use.
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Last edited by seanthien; 05-16-2010 at 06:27 AM.. Reason: easf
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  #57  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:10 AM
fowlplay4 fowlplay4 is offline
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I read the thread and saw a lot of small updates (updates that don't require a significant amount of work), since a lot of it was just undoing changes that were made in the first place.

Now is probably the best time to start removing the gelat shop, and other things that completely ruined the balance Zone may have had.

Being able to legally buy yourself into OPness with real money should of never happened in the first place but it's obvious that some amount of greed took place.

Obviously there's been a miscommunication between what a small and large update is. The time taken, and amount of people required to perform the task are what I consider, not the amount of small details or effect that it'll have.
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  #58  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:35 AM
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  #59  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:42 AM
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A positive change is a positive change no matter how small or large. I wish people would stop thinking that it's a "waste of time" to fix smaller things just because bigger changes are needed.

Sorry, it just doesn't work like that.
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  #60  
Old 05-16-2010, 04:41 PM
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Reset mines in new round
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Don't know if this was ever fixed.
This isn't fixed no, But the mines don't do any damage when they explode in a new round? ;o
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