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  #31  
Old 05-23-2010, 03:43 AM
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Can't wait!
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<Dustyshouri> no, RogueShadow is always talking about scripts lol
<Dustyshouri> in fact, he pretty much brought Graal back as a topic single-handedly
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  #32  
Old 05-23-2010, 06:12 PM
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heads up for thor and his team who are working slowly but effectively on the server. Just what it needs.
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  #33  
Old 05-23-2010, 09:36 PM
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2010, 06:13 AM
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  #35  
Old 05-25-2010, 04:54 AM
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<Dustyshouri> no, RogueShadow is always talking about scripts lol
<Dustyshouri> in fact, he pretty much brought Graal back as a topic single-handedly
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  #36  
Old 05-26-2010, 10:11 AM
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Why were my posts deleted? I am very serious about looking forward to the new Classic !!!!
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  #37  
Old 05-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Oni Oni is offline
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Thor! It’s great you guys are making progress on the server, and the intro looks really nice. Your really dedicated to this server.
However I have a few concerns, please hear me out.
You say after the Castle Quest is completed you will, “consolidate both content and other aspects of the server and push for a server release“. This scares me because it makes me feel you think quests are priority and everything else is secondary. How you worded it especially, you seemed to not really give to much importance to the other stuff you kind of just jumbled them all together and called it “content and other aspects.”
I know this server is Classic, and we don’t want to change that. But you must remember this is 2010. I hope to god that your not thinking quests are going to save this server. I won’t act like people don’t like quests cause a lot of people do. But they also don’t have a complete grasp on what makes a game successful. They’re simply saying what they want at the moment, but aren’t concerned with anything else. If people loved quests that much they can go play any game from the Zelda series, but most don’t because single player games aren’t that fun. That’s why they’re on Graal most of the time.
Graal thrives off community, that’s the only thing keeping it alive. Your main focus has to be REPLAY VALUE. You need to figure out ways to keep people coming onto the server. Quests pull people onto the server, keep them for a while, and then after that (the other 98 percent of the time) its up to the rest of the server to keep them on. If you release a server that’s half assed and isn’t perfected your going to waste the hype. To be honest Classic has one more shot. We can’t afford to mess up this time because after this its over.

So here’s how you add replay value to a game in 2010.
1. Polish, polish, polish. EVERYTHING on this server needs to be perfected, every single tile, every single npc. It needs to look, feel, and sound BEAUTIFUL. I don’t care if the past had a certain look, because this isn’t the past. Mmorpgs are meant to develop, or else people will move onto the next one (like most of the Graal community has done already).
2. The content has to be overwhelming. Ever inch of the server needs to have thought put into it. There has to be a currency, items, and other gadgets to be collected and farmed. This is the main idea that fuels most modern games. No one likes grinding, but they’re willing to do it if they’ll earn something cool. People like to be better than others. That’s the idea behind online games. Your competing with others to be the coolest (sounds dorky but its true, think about it).
3. The entire event and spar system has to be revolutionary, seriously. You can’t have people complaining about HD, that shouldn’t even be a thought. It needs to just be solid. If you have to redo all the systems or whatever, do what it takes. The time you put in is worth it. Also the events need to be reworked and added too. This falls into both the polish and currency category. Make sure CLASSIC has the best event system. This will drive the server (like it has in the past).
4. If your going to focus on quests because you think that’ll bring that adventure feel back to the server, well, make MOST of the quests MULTIPLAYER. Who want’s to do stuff by themselves. I’ll answer this for you, VERY FEW. People don’t come online to play by themselves, this is just a given.

I can go on all day about this kind of stuff, but you guys aren’t stupid you know exactly what I’m saying. I’ll just leave you with one analogy, JUST INCASE some of you don’t get what I’m saying.

Look, a server is like a music album. Before you release it, you build up the hype, so people will go out and buy your album. Then you work on it to perfection, you don’t want to release anything less because fans and others who purchase the album will be disappointed and move on to some other music. Ever notice how people release crap albums, because they don’t perfect it, they give the fans the obvious, and don’t take it a step further. They’re afraid to risk anything because they’re afraid of losing a certain image. They focus on the IMAGE more than anything, they don’t create a full body of work. That’s why their album flops and people forget about it.
Classic can’t go down this route. At the moment you guys have completed the “album cover”. PLEASE don’t forget about the “production” and “meaningful content” that keeps people coming back for more, finding something new each day.

There’s five parts to an album; Image/Style, Production, Lyrics, Quality, and HEART. As long as you see the Classic server in this perspective, you wouldn’t want to give it any less than what it can truly be.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2010, 04:10 PM
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Wow, I skimmed through that monster. Your faith is very weak my friend. Have faith. Classic is already most of what your saying.
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Quote:
<Dustyshouri> no, RogueShadow is always talking about scripts lol
<Dustyshouri> in fact, he pretty much brought Graal back as a topic single-handedly
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  #39  
Old 05-26-2010, 07:59 PM
BlackSolider BlackSolider is offline
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Interesting post Oni.

I think the major focus on quests is a direct correlation to classic's weakness in the past: the lack of quests. There wasn't a way to go out and "improve" your character by getting better items/more hearts; there wasn't a storyline to go through; there wasn't a reason to go out and explore the server.

Obviously quests aren't perfect b/c they are fairly static in their contribution to the server (ie: usually only a one time use, and most have been single-player focused,) but having several lengthy and fun quests is very important to the early part of a server (when people come and try the server for the first time.)

I think Thor and the crew will be able to find a balance between quests and content, because they completely redid all the scripts/systems to enable them to add/edit things much, much quicker. The events system has been streamlined completely, so lots of things are now automated and done via scripts and buttons.

Basically, things are going to be quicker, easier, and better than before. I don't know how long the entire process will take, but Classic is definately in good hands.
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  #40  
Old 05-26-2010, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
Wow, I skimmed through that monster. Your faith is very weak my friend. Have faith. Classic is already most of what your saying.
Maybe you would understand his point of view if you had been playing Classic for the past few years.
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  #41  
Old 05-26-2010, 10:14 PM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
Thor! Itís great you guys are making progress on the server, and the intro looks really nice. Your really dedicated to this server.
However I have a few concerns, please hear me out.
You say after the Castle Quest is completed you will, ďconsolidate both content and other aspects of the server and push for a server releaseď. This scares me because it makes me feel you think quests are priority and everything else is secondary. How you worded it especially, you seemed to not really give to much importance to the other stuff you kind of just jumbled them all together and called it ďcontent and other aspects.Ē
Well actually, by "consolidate" I mean revisiting the things that have not been a priority when building the systems, working on the Spar + Event systems, working on Quest related content & resources etc, this is mainly level insides, not to say it isn't important, I want them to contain much more detail in terms of NPC interaction than what people are used to, but things have needed to be done in a certain order and this is really one of the last things necessary to make the server presentable as "complete".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
1. Polish, polish, polish. EVERYTHING on this server needs to be perfected, every single tile, every single npc. It needs to look, feel, and sound BEAUTIFUL. I donít care if the past had a certain look, because this isnít the past. Mmorpgs are meant to develop, or else people will move onto the next one (like most of the Graal community has done already).
There never has been a feeling that certain things should be kept as they were "for the sake of being old", my message has always been that it's important everything fits towards the theme, some times old content will do this, other times not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
2. The content has to be overwhelming. Ever inch of the server needs to have thought put into it. There has to be a currency, items, and other gadgets to be collected and farmed. This is the main idea that fuels most modern games. No one likes grinding, but theyíre willing to do it if theyíll earn something cool. People like to be better than others. Thatís the idea behind online games. Your competing with others to be the coolest (sounds dorky but its true, think about it).
Nothing is going to be implemented for the hell of it, there is a planned approach regarding to the main Questing content which is much more sophisticated than on the server previously, regarding an Economy there are alot of ideas which have been discussed though nothing concrete until a later point of time, meanwhile nothing wreckless shall be done that can possibly impede our ability to utilize an economy in future,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
3. The entire event and spar system has to be revolutionary, seriously. You canít have people complaining about HD, that shouldnít even be a thought. It needs to just be solid. If you have to redo all the systems or whatever, do what it takes. The time you put in is worth it. Also the events need to be reworked and added too. This falls into both the polish and currency category. Make sure CLASSIC has the best event system. This will drive the server (like it has in the past).
Both the Spar and Events (atleast the Team side of things atm) setup have imo been revolutionised.
The spar system is GUI based, has more options, details on screen, greater statistics viewable in profiles etc.
The Team Event system is similar to what you may be used to when playing CTF pre-wipe, but was specifically made to control + be applied to all Team Events, it takes no time at all to add a new CTF mode, not much time to add an entirely new Team Event, and adding new features/fixing bugs instantly applies to every Team Event, inwhich there are plenty of already.
The joining/summoning for Events is also automated now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
4. If your going to focus on quests because you think thatíll bring that adventure feel back to the server, well, make MOST of the quests MULTIPLAYER. Who wantís to do stuff by themselves. Iíll answer this for you, VERY FEW. People donít come online to play by themselves, this is just a given.
This has been discussed before, and I agree that there should be some specifically multiplayer Quests, but this is something i'd like to switch the focus to at a later point of time, implementing them separate from the main storyline inwhich the core server is designed towards, though not necessarily as something you have to complete after the single player content, possibly any time.

Something you have to consider is that in aiming to create an Adventure/Questing style server (which Graal lacks), one of the main goals is to create something which is both attractive and friendly towards entirely new players, this is much easier achieved with single player Quests.
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  #42  
Old 05-27-2010, 12:42 AM
maximus_asinus maximus_asinus is offline
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If you implement farming/grinding as part of the economy people won't play. Nobody wants to grind for gralats.
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  #43  
Old 05-27-2010, 09:58 AM
Oni Oni is offline
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Quote:
Well actually, by "consolidate" I mean revisiting the things that have not been a priority when building the systems, working on the Spar + Event systems, working on Quest related content & resources etc, this is mainly level insides, not to say it isn't important, I want them to contain much more detail in terms of NPC interaction than what people are used to, but things have needed to be done in a certain order and this is really one of the last things necessary to make the server presentable as "complete".
Alright, good to hear!

Quote:
There never has been a feeling that certain things should be kept as they were "for the sake of being old", my message has always been that it's important everything fits towards the theme, some times old content will do this, other times not
.
I don't agree with you on this one for many reasons. Just ask anyone who isn't satisfied with the way classic is. Basically we're held back by some of you oldbies who refuse to change. A few examples; That disgusting excuse for a graphic Angel Clan, Supernicks, that retarted Love Shack, LEVEL 14, the Bank, and the list just goes on and on. Some of these places aren't HORRIBLE, yea we can LIVE with them, but we have the power to make them 10x better so why not? Because you oldbies won't have it. :|
You guys have to raise your standards if you want to compete with other modern mmorpgs let alone the other playerworlds.

Quote:
Nothing is going to be implemented for the hell of it, there is a planned approach regarding to the main Questing content which is much more sophisticated than on the server previously, regarding an Economy there are alot of ideas which have been discussed though nothing concrete until a later point of time, meanwhile nothing wreckless shall be done that can possibly impede our ability to utilize an economy in future,
Your 100 percent right. Thats why I said "Every inch of the server needs to have thought put into it." I think you might have missed that.

I'm very happy to hear that you guys fixed the hd.

Quote:
Something you have to consider is that in aiming to create an Adventure/Questing style server (which Graal lacks), one of the main goals is to create something which is both attractive and friendly towards entirely new players, this is much easier achieved with single player Quests.
I'm not going to say "No your right, and I'm wrong", because I don't really know. But in my opinion thats not what you should be doing. If people want a real quest adventure they can just play all the other 1000's of well made mmorpgs that have been released in the last few years. Not Graal, this game lacks professionalism. Only a select few, and crazy oldbies want to actually quest on classic.

Quote:
If you implement farming/grinding as part of the economy people won't play. Nobody wants to grind for gralats.
lmao
Well obviously if theres nothing WORTH BUYING. I don't know if theres anything wrong with your head Maximus, but it looks like your simplistic canadian lifestyle really took a toll on your judgement.
Do you think people on WoW want to grind for hours just to level up? NO, but they'll do it in order to be better than the next man.
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  #44  
Old 05-27-2010, 09:07 PM
BlackSolider BlackSolider is offline
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No one's saying supernicks or the bank won't be changed, as supernicks has already been remade and is probably 10x better than before. Granted I liked the different themed spar arenas, but few people ever used them, and the new one is all automated and stuff so it's pretty cool.

I don't know what the plans are for the bank/economy, but really...what can you do with a bank? You sit down and idle, or you deposit/withdraw money. If you want to add a bunch of other stuff, then its not really just a bank. Some things need to be simple and to the point, while others can be more extravagant. I haven't looked in a while, but I think the loveshack or w/e is gone, not sure about Angel Clan, lvl 14 hasn't changed much. I don't know what you expect or want out of these places, but not all places need to be revamped if they're doing their job.

As for the farming/economy stuff, no one is going to do anything if it doesn't benefit them. I was never a fan of having millions of graalats in bank accounts, nor having people sit on piles of hundreds of tickets. I don't know exactly what we plan on having people able to buy, but I hope that GC prizes will be worth it this time. I've always had the idea of having a limit on the number of money, such as only having 500 tickets (for example,) in circulation. If we had enough worthy prizes, people would try their best to win/purchase/deal for tickets and purchase the prize(s) they wanted. Then the tickets would go into a 'treasure chest' in GC studios that the GCs would then withdraw from and give out to event winners. Basically it'd be a cycle of giving out tickets, gathering tickets, then spending tickets. The biggest issue I've found is having people win tickets and then not spend them, thereby shrinking the ticket supply. Also I don't know how this would work with trials, who obviously couldn't keep them but would want to play events regardless. So obviously this idea has a lot of work before it would be acceptable, and honestly it was just an idea I had probably a year ago. I even recall having a provision about reclaiming tickets from people who were gone for several weeks in order to keep the tickets flowing.

Just some of my thoughts while also watching TV.
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  #45  
Old 05-27-2010, 09:33 PM
adam adam is offline
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Yeah, I've been thinking about how to reclaim unique items from people who haven't logged in in months, to keep a fixed supply of items from vanishing over time.
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<Dustyshouri> no, RogueShadow is always talking about scripts lol
<Dustyshouri> in fact, he pretty much brought Graal back as a topic single-handedly
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