brief statement

[Sam]

It appears to me to explain something:
The leader of Bel'la Olplyn is Kefkin.
It has absolute control of its kingdom. He has the right, to rename his kingdom as every other leader.
Only if he leave his throne, somebody else can become king.
Except if staff administrator Björn or his bosses kicking a leader for a good reason.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

It appears to me to explain something:
The leader of Bel'la Olplyn is Kefkin.
It has absolute control of its kingdom. He has the right, to rename his kingdom as every other leader

Why? It doesn't literally belong to him. It's a facet of GK's gameplay, he just plays the role of the figurehead. He shouldn't be given complete and unregulated control over the kingdom - otherwise he is granted power that he doesn't need and will quite likely abuse.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why? It doesn't literally belong to him. It's a facet of GK's gameplay, he just plays the role of the figurehead. He shouldn't be given complete and unregulated control over the kingdom - otherwise he is granted power that he doesn't need and will quite likely abuse.

Who does the kingdom belong to if it doesn't belong to Kefkin?

[Butz]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Who does the kingdom belong to if it doesn't belong to Kefkin?

The Graal community.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Who does the kingdom belong to if it doesn't belong to Kefkin?

Obviously everything on 2K2 belongs to the staff.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

It appears to me to explain something:
The leader of Bel'la Olplyn is Kefkin.
It has absolute control of its kingdom. He has the right, to rename his kingdom as every other leader.
Only if he leave his throne, somebody else can become king.
Except if staff administrator Björn or his bosses kicking a leader for a good reason.

And Bjorn left it to the RP Team to make the decision on the matter.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Who does the kingdom belong to if it doesn't belong to Kefkin?

Ultimately it belongs to GraalOnline, but only indirectly. Why does it need an owner?

[xAndrewx]

Because it's a kingdom, It needs a leader to stay active.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Because it's a kingdom, It needs a leader to stay active.

You didn't catch what he was trying to say.

It's kind of like how a park can have a head caretaker... but is there an owner for a public park? That Caretaker can be fired or relieved of his job if his bosses find him to be ill-suited for that job. It should be no different in Graal. Moreso when you have a kingdom leader.

And then that brings another point up. Why should Kefkin be the owner? Technically doesn't it belong to the RP Team now that the team was created?

[Butz]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Because it's a kingdom, It needs a leader to stay active.

True, kingdoms need a leader, the same way that a company needs someone in charge of it to keep it running. However, the moment you give someone free reign to do whatever they want in a position of power, you will inevitably cause an abuse of that power. Just look at the CEOs that have gone to prison for treating their companies like their own personal bankroll.

[xAndrewx]

That's why we are here, we're here to monitor the kingdoms as well as monitor the roleplaying involved.

[Butz]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

That's why we are here, we're here to monitor the kingdoms as well as monitor the roleplaying involved.

And you see nothing wrong with the roleplaying involved in the situation where a race that doesn't exist by Graal's standards, comes in and utterly defeats the long-standing meant-for-stability Zormite Republic in one fell swoop?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Butz

And you see nothing wrong with the roleplaying involved in the situation where a race that doesn't exist by Graal's standards, comes in and utterly defeats the long-standing meant-for-stability Zormite Republic in one fell swoop?

And the roleplaying background on how a kingdom is returning to the archipelago to reclaim it's colony as the Zormites evolved into the biggest nation in the world with the conquests of Dustari, Samurai, Bomy Gang, and their uneffected status when the meteorite crashed as stated by Graal Bomy Moon's 2nd Kingdom Admin Vermain.

[Splke]

That's stupid. Stupider then Etien's post stupid. God. We should be able to take it in War, if we can't do that what the **** is the point of going to war?

-_- Your rules suck ass, *****s.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

And Bjorn left it to the RP Team to make the decision on the matter.

No. Their major task consists of making sure the players understand how to RP, and to enforce the Graal Kingdoms rules.
The team is there to encourage roleplaying among the kingdoms (in the kingdom together with the kingdom leader).
I created the team to assist the leaders and release me and Björn.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Because it's a kingdom, It needs a leader to stay active.

Leader, maybe. Owner, no.

Do you understand the difference? The former is a position of responsibility and servitude, the latter is a position of power and self-indulgence.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

No. Their major task consists of making sure the players understand how to RP, and to enforce the Graal Kingdoms rules.
The team is there to encourage roleplaying among the kingdoms (in the kingdom together with the kingdom leader).
I created the team to assist the leaders and release me and Björn.

You mean a Kingdom Leader and a Graal Police? You already have those two positions. Apparently the Kingdom Leaders aren't doing a good job eh?

And just to quote you

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

Except if staff administrator Björn or his bosses kicking a leader for a good reason.

If Bjorn said that it's up to the RP Team to make the decision (I believe Andrew was the one who asked him) then I do believe Bjorn puts his own decision into the matter, seeing how they can not do anything with the kingdoms without Bjorn.

[Sam]

In the past the kingdom leaders switched a lot (the past I am talking about started with quitting Nayoko as leader of KJ). But this was the only time when Björn dont agree with the way how it happend. All other changes was made without interferences of staff. Björn didn't say its up to the RP Team to make a decicion who will be kingdom leader or not.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

In the past the kingdom leaders switched a lot (the past I am talking about started with quitting Nayoko as leader of KJ). But this was the only time when Björn dont agree with the way how it happend. All other changes was made without interferences of staff. Björn didn't say its up to the RP Team to make a decicion who will be kingdom leader or not.

He didn't say that about the kingdom leader, correct. However he did give the success or failure of the BO Order decision to the RP Team.

And perhaps the staff should interfear more, seeing how Kingdom Leaders are basicly minor staffers of Graal Kingdoms and should be treated as such.

Plus, do we really want a puppet of Debaglio to be leading a kingdom?

[Gambet]

The RP Team makes sure that there is fair roleplaying and if any drastic changes were come to a kingdom (like how the drows took over a colony of the Zormitians), that it has to be reasonable. The role playing in this case was NOT reasonable and was more of a fantasy. Since the role play that Graynt created was not reasonable and was obviously the biggest miracle to the whole story line (I.E Drows taking over a colony of Zormitians), then the Zormitians are open to retialiate and take back their colony.

I clearly told Zurkiba that if the story was PROPERLY INTRODUCED/MADE, then he would NOT have been able to reunite the Zormitians to take back their colony. The fact that Graynts story did not fit these standards, then the Zormitians are open to retaliate, since the Empire was not taken over.

[Brad]

im deleting my post because I flipped out ok.

sam i hate you

that sums it up

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

In the past the kingdom leaders switched a lot (the past I am talking about started with quitting Nayoko as leader of KJ). But this was the only time when Björn dont agree with the way how it happend. All other changes was made without interferences of staff. Björn didn't say its up to the RP Team to make a decicion who will be kingdom leader or not.

BUT YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Googi

BUT YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!

totally sweet way to use a star wars quote

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

All other changes was made without interferences of staff.

A Zormite leader was removed in the past by Stefan simply because he didnt log on very much.

In that case, only members of the kingdom were complaining.

In the current case about Zormite, the ENTIRE SERVER IS ENRAGED.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by LordZen

A Zormite leader was removed in the past by Stefan simply because he didnt log on very much.

In that case, only members of the kingdom were complaining.

In the current case about Zormite, the ENTIRE SERVER IS ENRAGED.

That's one of the reasons: when staff acts in the place of a leader's inactivity. Rise and fall of a kingdom is in close connection with the activity of the leaders.

[xAndrewx]

At the end of the day Zormite is gone. Bel'la is active, that's the end of it.
You can't remove the leader from the kingdom, the leader needs to remove
themselves.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

And Bjorn left it to the RP Team to make the decision on the matter.

At this point in time, we may not be making a decision. I don't know. Right now, though, I will be taking a break from arguing either side of it, since I can easily do both and it sometimes gets me confused. For now, though, I want for the RP Team to kind of settle down a little bit and not worry about this stupid crap, because I am sick of hearing it. I was going to make reports of how each of the kingdoms are doing right now, but the sad fact of the matter is that I do not have a whole ton of time on my hands, nor the drive to do so. So, I will be working with other folks to come up with some good events in order to take people's minds off of it. Sure, Zormite may come back. But it will not be today. It will not be tomorrow. Like several others have said, the leaders can only remove themselves by leaving, or by being removed by priveledged staff. As of right now, RP Team members are not priveledged staff, so it is out of our control. I do not want to log on anymore to hear people complaining about Bel'la. Sure, I don't like Bel'la, but I am not going to listen to it when none of us can do anything about it. If I get any PMs about it, they will be ignored.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

You can't remove the leader from the kingdom, the leader needs to remove
themselves.

You're saying this, but you're not explaining why.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Draenin

At this point in time, we may not be making a decision. I don't know. Right now, though, I will be taking a break from arguing either side of it, since I can easily do both and it sometimes gets me confused. For now, though, I want for the RP Team to kind of settle down a little bit and not worry about this stupid crap, because I am sick of hearing it. I was going to make reports of how each of the kingdoms are doing right now, but the sad fact of the matter is that I do not have a whole ton of time on my hands, nor the drive to do so. So, I will be working with other folks to come up with some good events in order to take people's minds off of it. Sure, Zormite may come back. But it will not be today. It will not be tomorrow. Like several others have said, the leaders can only remove themselves by leaving, or by being removed by priveledged staff. As of right now, RP Team members are not priveledged staff, so it is out of our control. I do not want to log on anymore to hear people complaining about Bel'la. Sure, I don't like Bel'la, but I am not going to listen to it when none of us can do anything about it. If I get any PMs about it, they will be ignored.

Where are yall even getting this concept of removal of leader? Leadership change is a different item by itself. Bjorn told Andrew that the entire thing was reliant on the RP Team, in which yall have met and decided on the matter.

And I'm afraid that the RP Team, such as yourself, cant back down from your own event. This event was created by the RP Team and thusly is the fate of it.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

You can't remove the leader from the kingdom, the leader needs to remove themselves.

Yet again, if I dont officially quit then, going by your logic, leadership can never be removed from me.

[Sam]

Read #24 and #25

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You're saying this, but you're not explaining why.

This is the only way how to remove a kingdom leader.

[Draenin]

Dear GK:

RP Team can't remove the leaders, even if we wanted to.

Love,
Teh Draggy.

[Gambet]

It has been decided not to remove Graynt from position. Who said we were going to remove him?

It has been decided that a team of advisors would look over the kingdom/Graynts decisions instead. The team of advisors would most likely consist of Zurkiba and Googi.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

This is the only way how to remove a kingdom leader.

...

Stop telling me what is the case and start telling me why it should be.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Gambet

It has been decided that a team of advisors would look over the kingdom/Graynts decisions instead. The team of advisors would most likely consist of Zurkiba and Googi.

This is stupid. We're supposed to "look over" the kingdom? And what are we supposed to do if we see stuff we don't like?

[Draenin]

I'll tell you.

Nothing.

Same goes for us.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Googi

This is stupid. We're supposed to "look over" the kingdom? And what are we supposed to do if we see stuff we don't like?

I didn't come to this solution. Zurkiba did as he discussed it with some of the team. I don't see anything wrong with it, so I agreed. Rather then remove Graynt, it's best to just keep him under supervision.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Dear GK:

RP Team can't remove the leaders, even if we wanted to.

Love,
Teh Draggy.

Dear *******:

The RP Team has the power to tell a higher staff member to remove a leader. Stop being a *******. You're almost on the level of Andrew right now.

Love,

Brad

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Googi

This is stupid. We're supposed to "look over" the kingdom? And what are we supposed to do if we see stuff we don't like?

Actually we still have to talk with Graynt about it, but he set the date for Thursday (when the tropical storm is over me and we're flooded). Mainly because the RP Team is reluctant to do anything about it other then that.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

This is the only way how to remove a kingdom leader.

Because we all know that factors such as roleplaying and general leadership skill have no bearing on that. It's only if you pay the bill to play the game eh?

Why did I say poor general leadership skill? Well Kefkin has leaders of his kingdom running around going
'LOL Y R U HERE?'

Which is just great =x.

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

Read #24 and #25

This is stupid, the RP team is supposed to be enforcing Roleplaying.

Why then are you allowing Bell uh Ocra to continue to violate Graal roleplaying standards?? Its screwing up the storyline by injecting his Drow crap and trying to defend against the Zormite empire with an ocean monster (LOL).

Seriously, stop acting like your hands are tied. If you really have so little use than why the hell was the RP team put together in the first place?

You might as well disband it if you cant even do something about illegal roleplaying. The server would be better off without a "staff" group who is willing to justify an unjustifiable roleplaying scenario within Graal, whereby you are accepting its existance by the very fact that you refuse to do anything about it.

Again, I ask you, what is the point of the team if you cant intervene when it is so blatantly obvious that change is needed?

You will find no example more obvious in the comming months, probably ever.