For those of you who don't read the NPC forum...

[tlf288]

I see what you are saying now Kaimetsu. I couldn't tell you how I would do it unless I did it. I know I could do it but I would have to do it to tell you how I would do it.

[PastAustin]

Originally posted by tlf288
I see what you are saying now Kaimetsu. I couldn't tell you how I would do it unless I did it. I know I could do it but I would have to do it to tell you how I would do it.

Imagine, add tons of useless scripting just to bleet out some useless words, amazing, eh?

[Devil]

Originally posted by PastAustin


Imagine, add tons of useless scripting just to bleet out some useless words, amazing, eh?

Who seriously gets offended by a pack of stupid 12 year olds saying stupid words to you over the internet? I don't.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I'm asking how you would script the censor system, not how the user interface would work. I think you greatly underestimate the difficulties involved.

Well, I would have a whol;e new chat bubble system, so it would be pretty simple. Now, getting it to work online is another story, as I do not have a server I could test it on.

[Googi]

Originally posted by Devil
Who seriously gets offended by a pack of stupid 12 year olds saying stupid words to you over the internet? I don't.

You're missing the point, it's against the TOS.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Googi


You're missing the point, it's against the TOS.

Exactly, and I do for one get offended. It isn't needed.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Devil


If only there was a script to rid people like you.

There is no need for insults or negativity.

If a person cant ask a simple question without being flamed why are the forums here.
If it continues i think Unixmad should step in and tell you to stop it.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Well, I would have a whol;e new chat bubble system, so it would be pretty simple.

*shrugs*

Talk is cheap. Especially talk that doesn't actually answer my question.

Now, getting it to work online is another story, as I do not have a server I could test it on.

This suggests that you haven't fully understood the problem. There would be no need for online considerations.

[Devil]

Originally posted by TifaKhan



There is no need for insults or negativity.

If a person cant ask a simple question without being flamed why are the forums here.
If it continues i think Unixmad should step in and tell you to stop it.

Do it, I can't see him doing anything about it, he's got bigger things on his plate at the moment.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Devil
Do it, I can't see him doing anything about it, he's got bigger things on his plate at the moment.

On the other hand, we mods get quite a lot of free time. Don't assume yourself to be invincible, Brett.

[Devil]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


On the other hand, we mods get quite a lot of free time. Don't assume yourself to be invincible, Brett.

I was waiting for you to come here Who says I'm not invincible

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Devil


I was waiting for you to come here Who says I'm not invincible

*waves*

[Devil]

Originally posted by Tseng


*waves*

Stuff you Tseng

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Devil
I was waiting for you to come here Who says I'm not invincible

I do. You've been banned before, Brett, and if you don't change your attitude then it won't be long before you're banned again. I'm by no means the only one who objects to your conduct.

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I do. You've been banned before, Brett, and if you don't change your attitude then it won't be long before you're banned again. I'm by no means the only one who objects to your conduct.

::waves::

[Devil]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I do. You've been banned before, Brett, and if you don't change your attitude then it won't be long before you're banned again. I'm by no means the only one who objects to your conduct.

The banning had nothing to do with what I'm doing now. It was alot worse.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Devil
The banning had nothing to do with what I'm doing now. It was alot worse.

It's exactly the same thing, merely to a different magnitude. Again I iterate: If the moderators decide that you should be banned then you will be banned, regardless of whether or not you agree with the decision.

[Devil]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


It's exactly the same thing, merely to a different magnitude. Again I iterate: If the moderators decide that you should be banned then you will be banned, regardless of whether or not you agree with the decision.

Er...fine whatever.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


*shrugs*

Talk is cheap. Especially talk that doesn't actually answer my question.



This suggests that you haven't fully understood the problem. There would be no need for online considerations.

Well, first off, my PW will have a new chat bubble system. And it will have a language filter. So it will be proven soon enough.

Second, I do fully understand the problem. What I would make my system do is have the players draw chat bubbles over other players, completely clientside. So it goes like this:

Player Chats>Sends Data to other players>other players receive, filter out the chat string>NPC draws the filter string over player who chats

That is my current idea of how to do it anyway, and I think it will work rather effectively...

By default, the language filter will no doubt be on, only those who want to here the nonsense of vulgar language can.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Second, I do fully understand the problem. What I would make my system do is have the players draw chat bubbles over other players, completely clientside.

Then why is there doubt over whether or not it would work online?

Player Chats>Sends Data to other players>other players receive, filter out the chat string>NPC draws the filter string over player who chats

'Sends data'? Would your script actually be doing that or are you just describing what Graal does? What kind of string would hold the modified chat text? Would it be drawn with a single NPC that iterates through the players and uses showimg to draw the text/bubble over them?

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Then why is there doubt over whether or not it would work online?



'Sends data'? Would your script actually be doing that or are you just describing what Graal does? What kind of string would hold the modified chat text? Would it be drawn with a single NPC that iterates through the players and uses showimg to draw the text/bubble over them?

I always have doubt of it working online, as I do not have a server to test it on.

I am describing what Graal does along with what the script would do. Probably a this.string. Drawn with a single NPC, purely clientside, using showtext/showpoly.


Actually, I have already done this system. At the end of the week, when I will show another screenshot, I will be sure to have my guy speak. It works rather nicely, because when the NPCs speak they also have chat bubbles. Also resizes according to ammount of text, and comes with a little chat bubbly thing come from the bubble to the player. Actually rather simple to make, alot easier then I had anticipated...I just put it in it's own function in the GUI NPC.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Probably a this.string.

Bad call. No such thing as a this.string on the clientside.

Drawn with a single NPC, purely clientside, using showtext/showpoly.

Bad call. Better to use a complimentary script gani.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Bad call. No such thing as a this.string on the clientside.



Bad call. Better to use a complimentary script gani.

As far as I know, there is. I believe I used it online, and I think Stefan add functionality for it offline, as I had 2 this.strings with the same name, and it did not overwrite the other...so yes, I think there is such thing.


Nah. Script gani would be no good, one simple reason being I don't want to give my scripts away. Another simple reason being, it fits fine in my GUI...it really does not make a difference either. I think it looks great the way it is...
Actually, am I able to have it in a script gani with different image layers? That is to say...would I be able to make it so it handles the bubble as a image? Right now, when to bubbles hit each other, they merge, and the text is on the same layer so you can imagine the result. Can this be avoided in a gani?

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade

Right now, when to bubbles hit each other, they merge, and the text is on the same layer so you can image.

When you show a screenshot of the chat bubble, you better show them merged.

*cant wait to see this*

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by tlf288


When you show a screenshot of the chat bubble, you better show them merged.

*cant wait to see this*

Keep in mind, this is my NPC test level, so you won't really understand whats going on.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade





Keep in mind, this is my NPC test level, so you won't really understand whats going on.

Looks good, but seems to me like it could get really messy with many players in one level saying long sentences. Very messy...

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by tlf288


Looks good, but seems to me like it could get really messy with many players in one level saying long sentences. Very messy...

Already thought of that...the max width of the bubble is 200 pixels, max height is 5 lines.

I might also create a secondary chat display, showing a level message (well, more like loaded level message) and a server message area.

So, if it does get to crowded, people can use secondary chat methods.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
As far as I know, there is.

Then what does it do?

I had 2 this.strings with the same name, and it did not overwrite the other...so yes, I think there is such thing.

See attached level.

Nah. Script gani would be no good, one simple reason being I don't want to give my scripts away.

I see your point, but it seems a little neurotic. Still, you're entitled to that.

Another simple reason being, it fits fine in my GUI...

Well, yes, but that's not a reason not to use script ganis.

it really does not make a difference either.

Yes it does. Example: You want to have a talking rock. The rock is not a player, it is just a rock. Would your current system be able to draw the chat text for it? Maybe, if you iterated through the NPCs as well as the players but then it gets more complicated. Using a script gani would be an adherence to the fundamentals of object-oriented programming, and that's a Good Thing.

I think it looks great the way it is...

Well, it wouldn't look any different if it were drawn with a script gani.

Actually, am I able to have it in a script gani with different image layers?

Yes.

Right now, when to bubbles hit each other, they merge, and the text is on the same layer so you can image. Can this be avoided in a gani?

I'm not sure what you mean. Two bubbles from different people? If so then I concede that there might be problems. Not insurmountable problems, but problems nonetheless.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Then what does it do?

Same thing a this.variable does.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

See attached level.

o_O. Weird, guess I was wrong about the offline deal.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I see your point, but it seems a little neurotic. Still, you're entitled to that.

Hehe, wouldn't want people with bubble text on every server, now would I?

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Well, yes, but that's not a reason not to use script ganis.

Heh, that argument can go both ways...

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Yes it does. Example: You want to have a talking rock. The rock is not a player, it is just a rock. Would your current system be able to draw the chat text for it? Maybe, if you iterated through the NPCs as well as the players but then it gets more complicated. Using a script gani would be an adherence to the fundamentals of object-oriented programming, and that's a Good Thing.

Actually, using the command "showcharacter" automatically adds that NPC to the playercount. Using players[this.i].<x,y>, I can get the NPCs X/Y. Showcharacter can be used on any NPC, and you can setshape following. So, either way it works.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Well, it wouldn't look any different if it were drawn with a script gani.

o_O. I need to look into it.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Yes.

See above

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I'm not sure what you mean. Two bubbles from different people? If so then I concede that there might be problems. Not insurmountable problems, but problems nonetheless.

Well, exactly. There are problems, but they won't seriously hinder the game experience. Actually, it bothers me more then it would any one else...so I need to look into it. Take a look at above screenshot, also keep in mind the text merges (that is to say, they are on the same layer, so when they merge you can't really read it o_O). Oh well, I can't see a way around this unless I figure a way using layers on the screen level (=>4) and still draw over players...it shouldn't be to hard.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Same thing a this.variable does.

Ah, but is it sent to the server? If not then there's no problem, but it would probably be safer to use local.strings.

Hehe, wouldn't want people with bubble text on every server, now would I?

Of course not, but any playerworld that stole your script would be swiftly dealt with.

Heh, that argument can go both ways...

It wasn't really even an argument, but this part of the discussion is pretty pointless anyway.

Actually, using the command "showcharacter" automatically adds that NPC to the playercount. Using players[this.i].<x,y>, I can get the NPCs X/Y. Showcharacter can be used on any NPC, and you can setshape following. So, either way it works.

Wouldn't showcharacter make it look like a character, though? When, in fact, you want it to look like a rock?

Well, exactly. There are problems, but they won't seriously hinder the game experience. Actually, it bothers me more then it would any one else...so I need to look into it.

Well, it would look the same in a script gani but you should probably script a system where the chat bubbles have dynamic placement and they are repelled from each other such that they only rarely collide. And when they do collide, they should be put on different layers.

I can't see a way around this unless I figure a way using layers on the screen level (=>4) and still draw over players...it shouldn't be to hard.

...you can use layers all the way up to 100 or so, I think.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Wouldn't showcharacter make it look like a character, though? When, in fact, you want it to look like a rock?

You can use showcharacter and still make the image a rock. No problem.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by tlf288


You can use showcharacter and still make the image a rock. No problem.

*shrugs*

Fair enough, but it's a messy solution.

[JrTerrorist]

Originally posted by BryanluvsJulia
so what words does it censor

Censor System Version 2.1
New feature:[list=1][*] Account: BryanluvsJulia put on permenant ignore.[/list=1]

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Ah, but is it sent to the server? If not then there's no problem, but it would probably be safer to use local.strings.

Hmm..never heard of those. What do they do, exactly?

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Of course not, but any playerworld that stole your script would be swiftly dealt with.

Might as well save myself the trouble.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Wouldn't showcharacter make it look like a character, though? When, in fact, you want it to look like a rock?

Well, at first it would. But, by using setcharani it would change the image. Actually, most of GK's detailing NPCs use showcharacter...because of the fact when you walk behind things like the torch with showcharacter, it is drawn over you, and in front drawn behind.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Well, it would look the same in a script gani but you should probably script a system where the chat bubbles have dynamic placement and they are repelled from each other such that they only rarely collide. And when they do collide, they should be put on different layers.

Ah..well if that is the case, I would rather create it in the gui.
As for the second idea, well, I doubt I could do that without the script getting pretty long, and I'd rather keep it short...so I am stuck with the way it is.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

...you can use layers all the way up to 100 or so, I think.

Yes I know, but I am using layers 2-3 right now. =>4 the layers switch from the board to the screen, so it would make the script longer because of the extra stuff needed to make that work. But, I might play with this.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Hmm..never heard of those. What do they do, exactly?

Clientside strings that are not sent to the server.

Might as well save myself the trouble.

Depends. I'll agree that risk of script theft is a factor in the decision, but it's one that could be easily outweighed.

Ah..well if that is the case, I would rather create it in the gui.
As for the second idea, well, I doubt I could do that without the script getting pretty long, and I'd rather keep it short...so I am stuck with the way it is.

Using an inferior system just to make the script shorter seems a little irresponsible.

Yes I know, but I am using layers 2-3 right now. =>4 the layers switch from the board to the screen, so it would make the script longer because of the extra stuff needed to make that work. But, I might play with this.

Oh, I see, I misunderstood. But yeah, you should jump up to the >=4 layers. There are script functions for that kind of thing now.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Clientside strings that are not sent to the server.

Really? Any more info? Client.strings are the only ones I have heard of, what is the difference from these?

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Depends. I'll agree that risk of script theft is a factor in the decision, but it's one that could be easily outweighed.

Heh, well, in the past I have worked on my stuff and tested it on other servers (with Murasamune). Alot of times, they stole my scripts, like my map system. I hate my stuff getting used without my permission, and I would rather not it happen.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu



Using an inferior system just to make the script shorter seems a little irresponsible.

Well, I know my limits, and I am alone. So, in the long run, it would be a smart choice. I have alot to do, and I can't spend all my time on this. Plus, I am not the best scripter in the world, but I can make things work well, and look nice. But, if it does not have to do with graphics, I can't make it work flawlessly, and look amazing, as you can.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Oh, I see, I misunderstood. But yeah, you should jump up to the >=4 layers. There are script functions for that kind of thing now.

Ah really? I will look at the new features, I get behind on scripting very easily

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Really? Any more info? Client.strings are the only ones I have heard of, what is the difference from these?

Any clientside creation/modification of client.strings is sent to the server. Local.strings are purely clientside, meaning they are never sent to the server.

And you also know about clientr.strings, since I explained them to you a few months ago.

Heh, well, in the past I have worked on my stuff and tested it on other servers (with Murasamune). Alot of times, they stole my scripts, like my map system. I hate my stuff getting used without my permission, and I would rather not it happen.

*shrugs*

Those situations were different, but the debate is moot. You're free to weight the factor however you want.

Well, I know my limits, and I am alone. So, in the long run, it would be a smart choice. I have alot to do, and I can't spend all my time on this. Plus, I am not the best scripter in the world, but I can make things work well, and look nice. But, if it does not have to do with graphics, I can't make it work flawlessly, and look amazing, as you can.

'Graphics' is not truly a subset of scripting. All the same principles apply as in any other discipline - they're just output differently. If you're good at scripting in general then you're good at scripting graphical systems. Your weakness may be in your ability to visualise abstract objects in 2D space.

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Any clientside creation/modification of client.strings is sent to the server. Local.strings are purely clientside, meaning they are never sent to the server.

And you also know about clientr.strings, since I explained them to you a few months ago.

Hmm, did know that. Well, local strings sound good then.

And yeah...been using them on anything the player shouldn't edit.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


*shrugs*

Those situations were different, but the debate is moot. You're free to weight the factor however you want.

Well, same general idea. Not being able to trust people to respect your work.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu




'Graphics' is not truly a subset of scripting. All the same principles apply as in any other discipline - they're just output differently. If you're good at scripting in general then you're good at scripting graphical systems. Your weakness may be in your ability to visualise abstract objects in 2D space.

Graphics have alot to do with it...You can't make a crappy light effect turn great with scripting, for instance.

The fact is, I don't see a way for me to make it work the way I would want it. Would I keep a array of the height/width of each bubble, and find a way for them not to collide? I could do it, but it would get messy, and it is not worth the trouble. Get what I am saying?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Graphics have alot to do with it...You can't make a crappy light effect turn great with scripting, for instance.

I think we're running perpendicular here. I wasn't talking about the quality of the images you're using, I was just saying that if you have skill with scripting in general then there is no reason that you cannot make visually impressive scripts (light shows, whatever).

The fact is, I don't see a way for me to make it work the way I would want it. Would I keep a array of the height/width of each bubble, and find a way for them not to collide?

Pretty much. Probably the easiest way would be to implement a simple force-modelling system - all bubbles have a natural state in which they want to be (above-right of the player or whatever) so there's a force pulling them towards that point. But the bubbles also impart a repulsive force on all other bubbles. Nine times out of ten, the bubbles would happily push each other apart in a fluid and practical way.

I could do it, but it would get messy, and it is not worth the trouble. Get what I am saying?

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your decision. Overlapping text could look quite ugly

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


I think we're running perpendicular here. I wasn't talking about the quality of the images you're using, I was just saying that if you have skill with scripting in general then there is no reason that you cannot make visually impressive scripts (light shows, whatever).

Well, I can make light shows. But, this is what I have learned. We see professional quality games running at nice frame rates without taking much memory - and it is because of the fact we use to many lights. You can make a amazing light show using amazing light effects, meaning instead of using 50 regular light images, use 1 image following the same animation...

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Pretty much. Probably the easiest way would be to implement a simple force-modelling system - all bubbles have a natural state in which they want to be (above-right of the player or whatever) so there's a force pulling them towards that point. But the bubbles also impart a repulsive force on all other bubbles. Nine times out of ten, the bubbles would happily push each other apart in a fluid and practical way.

o_O. So basicly, the force power would be the distance from the natural state? The farther they go, the more force the exert, until they go right through a bubble to get to its objective...I would really need to think about this to make it work, and I have to many other things to do. I might just play around with it, though I don't think I could be successful.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your decision. Overlapping text could look quite ugly

It could, but when making a PW, you must make decisions like this and not dwell on it. I realize as my skill increases, I can enhance things later. But as of now, it would be extremely difficult, as I said above.