Official Holiday Policy

[Jeff]

Ubiquitous Holidays and Occasions
Ubiquitous holidays and occasions that most people know will be given honor that may include parties, special levels, free items, and whatever else that the management may deem correct.
These include:

New Year's Day (January 1)
Equinoxes and Solstices (as listed at http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/EarthSeasons.html)
Halloween (October 31)

Anniversaries and Observances


The second class of observances is the class of Graal holidays. These include, at this time:

The anniversary of the creation of Graal - January 17
The anniversary of the release of newmain - February 28
Loriel's Birthday - March 12
Stefan's birthday - May 8
Unixmad's birthday - July 19
Antago's Birthday - August 31


Due to contraversy, national and religion-based holidays will not be officially supported. However, official holidays often fall near ones that cannot be supported (i.e. Unixmad's birthday near Independence Day and the Winter Solstice near Christmas). This may result in similar observances, i.e. fireworks for Unixmad's birthday and gralats being strewn about on the winter solstice.

[Googi]

Originally posted by Jeff
The anniversary of the release of newmain

February 28th, 2001

(I think)

[Neoreno]

The queen has two birthdays.

And according to a house on Classic the idea for Graal was thought up January 17th 1998.

[Jeff]

Posts not relating to the topic or otherwise causing trouble have been deleted.

[draygin]

WTF they where directly related to the topic. Every single one had an example of why its wrong. Look at how pissed zurkiba got at the thought of another holiday celebrating something he thought was bad. A perfect example. Another is my finding it offensive is having a christian holiday forced on to me when I'm not religious at all. It also forces all other ethnic backgrounds into it. Just because you think its a good holiday that generally every one enjoys. You're setting a double standard for things that shouldnt even be in a game. Just because most people enjoy it that doesnt make it right for the minority who dont like it to have to put up with it. That would be saying hey slavery is ok because the blacks are just a minority any ways. If you're going to do something that offends the minority then you had better be willing to listen to them when they get offended and complain.

[Googi]

I agree, we should have more holidays and celebrations from other ethnicitys and religions.

Not so much for any moral reasons, but because I want there for be more holidays and celebrations, the foundation of Graal is amusement after all.

[draygin]

If you keep it then I demand an Aeithiest day with a Big A on a white flag :O

As well as Hanika (sp?)
Quanza
What ever buddist people celebrate
Muslims
Satanists.
So forth and so on...

[Googi]

Originally posted by draygin
If you keep it then I demand an Aeithiest day with a Big A on a white flag :O

As well as Hanika (sp?)
Quanza
What ever buddist people celebrate
Muslims
Satanists.
So forth and so on...

I agree.

With all of them.

Originally posted by Jeff
In general, each of these days will be honored with a flag either hanging from or flying over the Admin House in worldl-17.nw.

...Well, I think you already know what I think about flags on the admin house

[Jeff]

Agreed with Googi. My list was too short, but remember I wrote it on the fly and didn't include everything.

I'll add Hanukkah to the list (menorah and maybe a dreidel gani), and I am not sure if Buddhists and Muslims have one day or week or other small time period of celebration. Ramadan is really too long to observe, and there'd really be no way to nonintrusively observe it, as the observation thereof involves not eating between sunrise and sunset...as I recall, though I may be wrong.

As for Kwanzaa, I guess we could stick up a candelabra or somesuch. I don't know much about the celebration thereof, but I could probably find some stuff on google.

It may sound arrogant and/or bizarre, but we could celebrate the birthdays of the managers or something if we needed a couple more celebrations in dry spots.


Atheism is not worthy of celebration because it is not so much a religion as a philosophy (will we have to have Nihilism Day?) or, hell, a single belief (Predestonation Week anyone?). And how would we celebrate it on graal, make a script to disconnect all the staff?

By the way, there is a LARGE difference between dropping gralats all over the place and similar secular activities on December 25 and having slaves. If you don't want to participate, we aren't forcing you to. You can always go kill people on Unholy Nation or Classic to get your graal fix. It's not like we're kidnapping you, transporting you across the ocean in a puddle of ordure, auctioning you to the highest bidder, beating you into submission, and ordering you to pick cotton under pain of death...IF you don't die in transit. Got a bit carried away there, but I needed to tell you what slavery was so maybe you wouldn't compare it to a perfectly innocent PNG of a Christmas tree, some light effects, and a few gralats here and there.

[Googi]

One last thing we should have is Bomy Landing Day...I don't think it was specified in the storyline, but we could make something up.

[Kamaeru]

Originally posted by Jeff
Ubiquitous Holidays
Ubiquitous holidays that most people on Graal know and probably celebrate will be given honor that may include parties, special levels, free items, and whatever else that the management may deem correct.
These include, but are not limited to:

New Year's Day (January 1)
Halloween (October 31)
Christmas (December 25) //Though it is religious in nature, most people recognize it as a general day of joy

National Holidays

The major national holidays of the United States, Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, and Australia will be honored with flags (i.e. on the Admin House, not scattered all over the server) and possibly a party.

The holidays celebrated in honor of the six aforementioned countries are:

Australia: Australia Day (January 26)
Canada: Canada Day (July 1)
United States: Independence Day (July 4)
France: Bastille Day (July 14)
Germany: Unity Day (October 3)
Great Britain: Queen's Birthday Observed (Second Saturday in June)

In general, each of these days will be honored with a flag either hanging from or flying over the Admin House in worldl-17.nw. The procedure for requesting expansion of the list is that five people FROM THE COUNTRY THAT OBSERVES THE HOLIDAY forum PM me a request stating the country involved and the name and date of the holiday (If the date is set with any non-Gregorian calendar, it would be appreciated if you provide the next three dates of observance).


Graalian Holidays



The third class of observances is the class of Graal holidays. These include, at this time:

The anniversary of the creation of Graal - January 17
The anniversary of the release of newmain - February 28
Unixmad's birthday - July 19
Stefan's birthday - May 8

We should have Armageddon day

And Bomy Moon Day

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Kamaeru


We should have Armageddon day

And Bomy Moon Day

nah, the whole armageddon thing isn't worth remembering, and i still get a bit ticked every time i go by the bomy moon as or atop a bomy.

[draygin]

A. Aethism is not a philosophy. You think it is unworthy of celebration that is your opinion. Not the opinion of aethiests. If you're going to do something to it fully not use double standards.

Muslims so what if its to long have the beginning day or ending day with the flag if nothing else saying its to long to bad is again a double standard. Or in my opinion not doing the whole time period because its longer than christmas is yet again another double standard.

No you are forcing us into a holiday we have no interest in. Forcing people to work for you forcing people to go through something. They are almost exactly the same. You are opressing the minority because you dont like there way.

Notice you made no mention of including anything dealing with satanism. Why is this? It is a valid religion? Just because you dont like it. That is yet again a double standard. If you're going to do something make it equal for all not half ass and full of double standards.

[Googi]

Okay, I say forget the national holidays, I hate the flags on the admin house. Draygin is right, there are too many, we should instead replace them with things like the starting of each new season and made up days significant to G2K1 alone.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by draygin
A. Aethism is not a philosophy. You think it is unworthy of celebration that is your opinion. Not the opinion of aethiests. If you're going to do something to it fully not use double standards.

Muslims so what if its to long have the beginning day or ending day with the flag if nothing else saying its to long to bad is again a double standard. Or in my opinion not doing the whole time period because its longer than christmas is yet again another double standard.

No you are forcing us into a holiday we have no interest in. Forcing people to work for you forcing people to go through something. They are almost exactly the same. You are opressing the minority because you dont like there way.

Notice you made no mention of including anything dealing with satanism. Why is this? It is a valid religion? Just because you dont like it. That is yet again a double standard. If you're going to do something make it equal for all not half ass and full of double standards.

First, what can be done exactly to observe the first day of Ramadan? Tell me and I'll implement.

Second off, I never said you have to participate.
Is it not your conscious decision whether or not to log onto newmain on December 25? I see nothing in the graal user agreement that says in big bold letters that "You must appear on Graal Bomy Moon and participate in Christmas festivities." And hell, there's nothing that says that even if you do log on, you have to participate. If you find 100 gralats lying in the path you don't have to pick them up.

Or maybe we'll just celebrate solstices, equinoxes, birthdays, anniversaries, Valentine's Day, Halloween, et cetera. No fun in that, though. The more celebrations, the better.

As for Satanism, I didn't say anything as I have not yet reached a decision. Is there even a satanist holiday? There's also the problem that the general populous is opposed to satanism and there might be strong sentiments against such an observance.

[Googi]

Originally posted by Jeff
Second off, I never said you have to participate.
Is it not your conscious decision whether or not to log onto newmain on December 25? I see nothing in the graal user agreement that says in big bold letters that "You must appear on Graal Bomy Moon and participate in Christmas festivities." And hell, there's nothing that says that even if you do log on, you have to participate. If you find 100 gralats lying in the path you don't have to pick them up.

One way or another, I'm probably going to end up looking at those ugly flags on the admin house though

[Kaimetsu]

Christmas isn't really a Christian holiday anymore. It's just a fun present-swapping event. As for flags... I still don't agree. "Happy Independence Day!" is fine, but the flags aren't really related to the events. If they are there then there should at least be some obvious linkage to the event in question.

[--Chris--]

satanism...halloween is good enough.

Bomy landing day and Armageddon day = cool.

[draygin]

Originally posted by --Chris--
satanism...halloween is good enough.

Bomy landing day and Armageddon day = cool.

Are you dumb? Halloween has nothing to do with satanism. At best it might be considered a wiccan holiday.

To who ever said it wasnt a christians holiday. Christmas
A day celebrating the birth of christ. If that isnt a christian holiday then I dont know what is.
To Jeff:

So because the general populus would be against satanism that would make it ok not to have it? While the minority would not be ok with holiday's such as christmas, or other religious holiday. Double standards.

You say I dont have to participate. When you put stuff up and leave it there for days on end yes it is forcing me it on the players. You say I dont have to log on dec 25th. So because you want it you're basically saying to bad if you dont like it these are the days you cant play because we'll be doing these things. I shouldnt have to not play graal to avoid things. It is a game it should not be using real life religions and what not. It should use graal dates only. Stefan's birthday Unixmad's certainly not the manager unless they created the server. Otherwise the only manager I would say for the birthdays would be loriel and birdbird. Bomy day would be a good holiday as it is a graal thing.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by draygin
To who ever said it wasnt a christians holiday. Christmas
A day celebrating the birth of christ. If that isnt a christian holiday then I dont know what is.

It isn't considered such anymore. Same for Easter; it was founded by pagans but all sorts of people celebrate it nowadays.

[Butz]

Ok. This is dumb. This is a game. This is not real life, and ultimately all decisions about the server rest upon the person running it.

(And about the holidays, are you also upset that in Animal Crossing, they have "Gift Day" on December 25th? What about "Explorer's Day" in the middle of October. Although not directly named, they obviously correlate to Christmas and Columbus Day. Two holidays which not everybody celebrates. )

[draygin]

Originally posted by Butz
Ok. This is dumb. This is a game. This is not real life,

This right here is my point exactly. This is not real life it should not have anything dealing with real life. Or if they do it should be all religions including the ones the majority would find offensive such as Satanism, Wicca, what ever.


If you put one in you need to put them all in or its a double standard. It would be like a group of kids at recess one guy comes up to hang out and the rest go sorry no the majority of us dont like you so you cant come here.

[Jeff]

My job...my duty on GBM...is to keep as many people as happy as possible. I reckon that more people would be angered by Satanist observances than pleased, and as Kai said, Christmas and Easter can be celebrated secularly.

And what you forget is that this is reality. It is a game, but it is not JUST a game and to call it such is grossly reductionist. It is many other things as well, among them a communication medium (Graal is probably used as a medium more as that than as a game, truth be told) and a business. I cannot stress that last bit enough. It is better to anger a few customers with an exclusion than to anger three times as many with an inclusion. I'm stretching it if I find some way to observe Ramadan, as that is a purely religious observance of the Muslims.


Note that the category in which I included Christmas is "ubiquitous holidays." It is there not because I am a Christian (though I am), but because most people on Graal celebrate it, and most of the rest could care less if I put up a blinking Christmas tree and give out Santa Claus hats.


The reason for some form of flags on a national holiday is because the general purpose of a flag is to provide a unique, easy-to-recognize symbol for a country. Such symbols existing, it seems only appropriate to use them.


Loriel's birthday? Hmmm, if I knew what that is (could probably find it) I could include that. He's done a lot for the server.

[Loriel]

[Googi]

Events related to the day are good. Ugly flags which make the admin house look bad and turn off newbies are not.

As for trying to be fair, I don't think anyone is going to say "OMG OMG OMG I QUIT BC 2K1 DOESN'T HAVE MY HOLIDAY"

But still, doing like Animal Crossing and renaming the days to take away religious significance would still be good.

Oh, and if we decide to have a Bomy Day, it should be August 31st

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by Loriel

OMG I KNOW YOUR BIRTHDAY

[draygin]

No nothing in graal is real life. It is not a reduction. It is a fact. If you consider it real life then I feel sorry for you. You post just screams ignorance and biast opinions. It is not ok no matter how small the minority to have one and not the other. With your posts you're saying its ok to offend some people because they're just the minority any ways. But its not ok to offend the majority. Yes you will lose players for it because if this is how graal is going to be then I myself wont be working on it or playing it. Just because you dont see people not saying omg I hate this doesnt mean they're not there. Just not every one is vocal about such things. If you're going to do something you do it for every body or nobody. Otherwise its an ignorant double standard not business. You go in a work environment and see how many of them are ok with a double standard. Infact in most work places no religious items are allowed at all. The same with schools. Why? Because they people running it arnt ignorant. They know its not ok to have double standards and play favorites. As I've stated over and over it should be all or none or all. Preferablly graal holidays such as those previously stated.


On a seperate note: I think Loriel likes that idea ;D

Googi's idea would be acceptable renaming holidays and perhaps changing them up a bit.

[Jeff]

Okay, okay, I hereby abolish all national observances (though we'll have fireworks for Unixmad's birthday, which isn't too far before the fourth of july) and the official recognition of religious holidays.

Solstices, equinoxes, and Loriel's birthday and/or Antago's will be celebrated, however.


You can't keep everyone happy. In business, you must aim to please the majority if you want to make money. And if you do not consider your fellow players (and, might I add, the money it takes to run this game) to be quite real, odds are that there is something amiss with you, and I doubt Unixmad would like to hear he paid thousands of dollars for imaginary computers, though both of those points are off topic. So let's close that discussion. Back to the topic.



Or in summary:

(1) Christmas, Chanukah, Ramadan, etc, celebrations will not be officially supported by staff.

(2) Solstices and equinoxes, in addtion to various birthdays, anniversaries, and other observances, will be honored with officially-sanctioned festivities.

(3) Enough arguing. Responding to your arguments distracts me from more important work (preparing for the ACT, et cetera).

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by draygin
No nothing in graal is real life. It is not a reduction. It is a fact. If you consider it real life then I feel sorry for you. You post just screams ignorance and biast opinions. It is not ok no matter how small the minority to have one and not the other. With your posts you're saying its ok to offend some people because they're just the minority any ways. But its not ok to offend the majority. Yes you will lose players for it because if this is how graal is going to be then I myself wont be working on it or playing it. Just because you dont see people not saying omg I hate this doesnt mean they're not there. Just not every one is vocal about such things. If you're going to do something you do it for every body or nobody. Otherwise its an ignorant double standard not business. You go in a work environment and see how many of them are ok with a double standard. Infact in most work places no religious items are allowed at all. The same with schools. Why? Because they people running it arnt ignorant. They know its not ok to have double standards and play favorites. As I've stated over and over it should be all or none or all. Preferablly graal holidays such as those previously stated.


On a seperate note: I think Loriel likes that idea ;D

Googi's idea would be acceptable renaming holidays and perhaps changing them up a bit.

The time, thoughts, and people on Graal are real...
So Graal is Real Life.

And just have four holidays... The one in the spring celebrates EVERY Holiday in the spring, The one in the Fall celebrates EVERY Holiday in the Fall... etc.

To where the players can announce what they follow, and if it works then you can do this:

Collect the thoughts of the players and then set the server to that theme. Like During the Winter Holiday Week (I guess a week), You can have Christmas Trees, The Manora(sp?), and anything else the players celebrate.

[syltburk]

But even if its not real life butz, why is it dumb? It can be more fun and they can have special events and liek everything, its not stupid its graal that trying to get their players to enjoy some special days.

[draygin]

I'm not against holiday's I'm against ones that would leave out the minority.

Holiday's I think would be good for 2k1

Stefan's Birthday
Unixmad's birthday
Loriel's birthday
Bomy Day
release day.
season holidays
Perhaps something around christmas time but not specific to the 25th along that would celebrate happyness and joy. Like a week long event or two with snowmen and what not.
A graal day when it was made (or theoretically when it was)
etc..

to Zurkiba: Do you believe bomy's are real? When people at school make you mad do you get pissed and call them N0Ob? or lamer?
When you got beat up did you ever accuse them of being a hacker?
Do you try to attack such individuals with your sword and fireball? If so how much jail time have you done? I think I'll end this with the words you once said to me. kthxbai


Addendum by Jeff:
"N0Ob" is an evasion of the filter. Innocent as your intent might be, I am not sure if such filter evasion is allowed. Please desist.

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by draygin
to Zurkiba: Do you believe bomy's are real? When people at school make you mad do you get pissed and call them ****? or lamer?
When you got beat up did you ever accuse them of being a hacker?
Do you try to attack such individuals with your sword and fireball? If so how much jail time have you done? I think I'll end this with the words you once said to me. kthxbai

Do you spend time on Graal? Do you be yourself on Graal? Do you have friends on Graal? Do you live your life on Graal?

I do... so the friends, time, and personality I use on Graal is real.

[Jeff]

Anyway, the current list is pretty much stable, unless someone finds another holiday to add to fill in an empty spot.

[draygin]

Originally posted by Zurkiba

Do you spend time on Graal? Do you be yourself on Graal? Do you have friends on Graal? Do you live your life on Graal?

I do... so the friends, time, and personality I use on Graal is real.

I spend some time on graal maybe an hour a day if that, two at the most on rare occasions.
If I'm not role playing which I havnt done in a while.
I have friends that play graal but they're not just on graal.
No I absolutly do not live my life on graal. lol

[syltburk]

Jeff, i will always be trusted to graal2001

[LOA--Paul]

Originally posted by draygin
WTF they where directly related to the topic. Every single one had an example of why its wrong. Look at how pissed zurkiba got at the thought of another holiday celebrating something he thought was bad. A perfect example. Another is my finding it offensive is having a christian holiday forced on to me when I'm not religious at all. It also forces all other ethnic backgrounds into it. Just because you think its a good holiday that generally every one enjoys. You're setting a double standard for things that shouldnt even be in a game. Just because most people enjoy it that doesnt make it right for the minority who dont like it to have to put up with it. That would be saying hey slavery is ok because the blacks are just a minority any ways. If you're going to do something that offends the minority then you had better be willing to listen to them when they get offended and complain.

Yo guy, Christmas is a secular holiday according to the word of the law, it's celebrating the life (yes he was real and helped people, maybe not with magic powers and such, but he existed) of Jesus Christ.
Just because some people think he is/is the son of god that means you cant celebrate his birthday?
Well then, remove Antago's birthday, my new religion states that he is an almighty being who was given the gift from GOD HIMSELF to make bomies or something like that. Get my drift?
It isn't forced on you either, BE TOLERANT. ACCEPTANCE IS DIFFERENT THAN TOLERANCE

[draygin]

Originally posted by LOA--Paul

Yo guy, Christmas is a secular holiday according to the word of the law, it's celebrating the life (yes he was real and helped people, maybe not with magic powers and such, but he existed) of Jesus Christ.
Just because some people think he is/is the son of god that means you cant celebrate his birthday?
Well then, remove Antago's birthday, my new religion states that he is an almighty being who was given the gift from GOD HIMSELF to make bomies or something like that. Get my drift?
It isn't forced on you either, BE TOLERANT. ACCEPTANCE IS DIFFERENT THAN TOLERANCE

As far as I'm aware there is no celebration of antago's birthday at least not on graal any how. As for if it was and getting rid of it because he would became part of your religion. Tell me did jesus play graal? Did he contribute some major things such as bomy's levels managment to 2k1? Get my drift? I accept that there are a multitude of religions. I how ever do not accept nor tolerate when people will put one above the other. Get my drift?

[LOA--Paul]

Originally posted by draygin


As far as I'm aware there is no celebration of antago's birthday at least not on graal any how. As for if it was and getting rid of it because he would became part of your religion. Tell me did jesus play graal? Did he contribute some major things such as bomy's levels managment to 2k1? Get my drift? I accept that there are a multitude of religions. I how ever do not accept nor tolerate when people will put one above the other. Get my drift?

I saidmnothing about the religious aspect of Christmas
THE CHRISTIAN CHRISTMAS is about going to mass, prayer,etc
CHRISTMAS BY LAW is secular (at least in the US) and celebrates the life of him

Would you also be opposed to a day honoring the Red Cross or other things?
You , yourself are holding a double standard, the "IF I DON'T LIKE IT IT CANT BE A HOLIDAY" one

As I said, be a little more tolerant, you dont have to celebrate it, the stuff is just there. You're being like those people who do things like pressing charges on someone for having christmas lights on their house see it and see "it is being forced upon me to see it".

[draygin]

Originally posted by LOA--Paul

I saidmnothing about the religious aspect of Christmas
THE CHRISTIAN CHRISTMAS is about going to mass, prayer,etc
CHRISTMAS BY LAW is secular (at least in the US) and celebrates the life of him

Would you also be opposed to a day honoring the Red Cross or other things?
You , yourself are holding a double standard, the "IF I DON'T LIKE IT IT CANT BE A HOLIDAY" one

As I said, be a little more tolerant, you dont have to celebrate it, the stuff is just there. You're being like those people who do things like pressing charges on someone for having christmas lights on their house see it and see "it is being forced upon me to see it".

Yes I would be apposed to a day honoring red cross in graal Something that seems to elude you. I am holding no double standards. I have said all or none? How is this a double standard? You guys are the ones trying to only pick the ones you like example no satanistic holiday's because the majority is against it. You should actually read and comprehend before you go around misusing words. The government also puts in god we trust on money. Does that mean god isnt religious? Just because the US government says something it doesnt make it true for the entire world. As I have previously stated all or none. Or holidays that deal with things involving strictly graal. Such as first day of graal/2k1 etc.. Now if I was saying no Christmas but yes lets have hanakuh then yes I would be having a double standard. So once again please if you're going to use big words at least use them correctly.

[Jeff]

The reason that no organizations recognize any satanic holidays is that satanism is not a major organized religion. Can you tell me one major satanic holiday that can be observed in any secular way?


Hmmm?