LAg.

[Logababy]

Okay, I admit that I don't have the best computer but my lag is boosted by about 100 ms because I'm Australian. I get annoyed when people say I'm eating bullets while on my screen i'm dodging them. Any chance we can some what raise the lag limit for events? Like I can't play any type of spar, it really sucks. Or has anyone got recommendations of how to keep lag down? If your Australian and have a lag under 200 pm me or post here.

PS: This is mainly for suggestions, this is not a complain.

Thanks

[Demisis_P2P]

Nobody in Australia has latency under 200 on Graal. Trust me

[IwishIwas1337]

Same with me since I'm from NZ =[

[Logababy]

what about under 250?

[Supaman771]

Lower chat size.
Turn off all particle/light effects.
Turn off nicknames during spars.
Shrink your screen size.
Get a better computer/internet.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Get a better <..> internet.

This is the only one that will have any significant difference.

The 250 MS limit is a guideline; it was not made to be enforced unless players are causing problems (lagging so much that they are disrupting the event). If indeed you are eating bullets, it shouldn't be hard to see why that isn't really fair to others.

Hopefully serverside hit detection in events after the reset will help alleviate the problems caused by players on high-latency connections. Graal works as such that players on worse connections almost have an advantage as opposed to other online games where those players have a disadvantage. This is the reason that the latency limit exists.

Indeed the guideline can be unfair to those with poor connections or on the opposite side of the world as America, so I will remind all of the Events Team members that the rule is not supposed to be enforced unless the player is disrupting the event with an unreasonable amount of lag.

[Seeya]

i hear world of warcraft is pretty cheap

[Komali]

Originally Posted by Logababy

Or has anyone got recommendations of how to keep lag down? If your Australian and have a lag under 200 pm me or post here.
Thanks

Move to Tokyo, it's only 8 hours away and has the best connection in the world!

[hunterhunk]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Hopefully serverside hit detection in events after the reset will help alleviate the problems caused by players on high-latency connections. Graal works as such that players on worse connections almost have an advantage as opposed to other online games where those players have a disadvantage. This is the reason that the latency limit exists.

This, from Geo

Superintendent, G. Cassini (Fri Jun 18 16:08:48 2010):
I really hope you are kidding when you say you are going to use serverside hit detection for ANYTHING. They were removed for a reason and if you put the back in you will kill PKing just like Jenn did. There is no skill in serverside PK, this is not a 3d 3rd person shooter where aim is everything, in this server it's all about dodging and no matter how much someone is lagging they still have to dodge. Sure it's a pain in the butt sometimes, but you buck up and deal with it. Putting in serverside PK scripts ruin PK because you would be killing dodging which is 98% of Era PK. Every tiny pixel difference matters in dodging, so if the bullet isn't exactly where I think it is on my screen and I'm weaving between 2 bullets, then I'll be hit by invisible bullets.

Yeah, don't screw up PKing, please.

-Geovanni Cassini



- I personally believe that PKing should be clientside as well, lag really doesn't give players a HUGE advantage...

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by hunterhunk

lag really doesn't give players a HUGE advantage...

Mmmm, I dont really know..

I agree with Geo that without Dogding on Era, PK'ing will become boring.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

Serverside hit detection has been done before, but it didn't work out.

I'm not really sure if lag gives a huge advantage, to me it just makes the player incredibly irritating and wastes my patience.

[Freudian_slip]

Serverside hit detection is a not a good idea. It was made clientside for a reason, its been tried. Lets learn from the mistakes of the pass, lag is a problem... the way its being dealt with now is fine, no point of fixing whats not broken.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Graal works as such that players on worse connections almost have an advantage as opposed to other online games where those players have a disadvantage. This is the reason that the latency limit exists.

So because some people have a disadvantage in some other games you're going to completely change the game mechanics so that they have a disadvantage in this game too? Perfect logic.

Serverside hit detection won't make things fair, it'll just change who has the advantage. Somebody is always going to have a latency advantage, so why not just let it be the laggers for once?

@ Slash, Geo & Raven
Chris can probably script better serverside hit detection than Jenn did.
And he's only talking about serverside in events/spars. So not for everyday PKing (probably only because serverside projectiles are still terrible at travelling between levels).
But Geo does have a point that under serverside the projectile will NEVER be exactly where you see it on your screen and dodging will count a lot less.

Could you achieve the same effect by using a serverside movement system instead of serverside projectiles? At least that way projectiles would maintain their honest positions and be kind of dodge-able if you know your own movement latency.

[Frankie]

latency makes it annoying but it doesn't give anyone an advantage. regardless if they're lagging or not, they still have to dodge all the bullets you shoot at them.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

So because some people have a disadvantage in some other games you're going to completely change the game mechanics so that they have a disadvantage in this game too? Perfect logic.

Look, I understand this affects you, but you're not making any sense in your logic. Someone is always going to be at a disadvantage with lag, as you've stated, so why should it be the person with low latency?

It seems to me to be better to be at a disadvantage than to be completely unable to play. It might be possible also to use serverside projectiles only for players with high latency.

[Frankie]

people with low latency are in no way at a disadvantage against someone with high latency..

[hunterhunk]

Originally Posted by Frankie

people with low latency are in no way at a disadvantage against someone with high latency..

Yeah, with laggers, you just have to know how to react according to their movements.... I never find laggers hard to PK/Spar, it actually does me a favor usually.

[FantasyX]

I really hope you change your mind, Vimes. Server-side PK is partly what ****ed up Jenn's Era (along with a lot of other things) and it completely rules out any skill in sparring/pking. With clientside PK, everything is fair. Despite that some characters lag more than others, you have to take into account that they're seeing everyone else in that level eating their bullets.

The argument I've always ****ing hated is that laggers eat bullets. I continue to try to get this point across: You're eating bullets on their screen, too. Try to predict where they're going to go, in stead of crying about how they're eating bullets on your screen. It's 100% fair. Clientside PK is the only fair way to do it, and if you change it to serverside, you're just going to **** up everything.

NOTE - I'm not in any way trying to bash your scripting abilities. I know you're a qualified scripter. My argument has nothing to do with your ability to script.

[Dnegel]

The best way to kill laggers is too melee them, most of them freeze for 1-2 secs.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by FantasyX

I really hope you change your mind, Vimes. Server-side PK is partly what ****ed up Jenn's Era (along with a lot of other things) and it completely rules out any skill in sparring/pking. With clientside PK, everything is fair. Despite that some characters lag more than others, you have to take into account that they're seeing everyone else in that level eating their bullets.

The argument I've always ****ing hated is that laggers eat bullets. I continue to try to get this point across: You're eating bullets on their screen, too. Try to predict where they're going to go, in stead of crying about how they're eating bullets on your screen. It's 100% fair. Clientside PK is the only fair way to do it, and if you change it to serverside, you're just going to **** up everything.

NOTE - I'm not in any way trying to bash your scripting abilities. I know you're a qualified scripter. My argument has nothing to do with your ability to script.

If it turns out to not work as well as it has in my tests on Era Dev then we'll abandon it. It's not like it's going to take weeks of work to do or undo.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If it turns out to not work as well as it has in my tests on Era Dev then we'll abandon it. It's not like it's going to take weeks of work to do or undo.

Yeah but the playercount is going to moan about it taking that long if you do have to.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Yeah but the playercount is going to moan about it taking that long if you do have to.

Well, as I've said, it works very well in our tests right now, and it's literally one line of code to disable it. Some part of the playerbase will undoubtedly not like it but I'm hoping most of them will like it once they actually see it.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Frankie

people with low latency are in no way at a disadvantage against someone with high latency..

*if you know about how latency affects the damage systems.

New players aren't going to know to shoot a few tiles in front of a lagger, or even to use melee weapons against them. And in order to explain it to them they would need a basic understanding of serverside/clientside.

Latency is a problem to the extent that, most low latency players are accustomed to shooting directly at most other players and having those players take damage properly.
Laggers are accustomed to shooting a few tiles in front of other players to allow for their own latency and having those players take damage properly.
Now when a lagger and low latency player fight against eachother, the low latency players is still going to be shooting directly at the lagger, and the lagger is still going to be shooting a few tiles in front of the low latency player. And in this scenario the lagger has a clear advantage because his shots will be placed correctly but the low latency players shots won't be, and chances are the low latency players won't even know that they need to adjust their shots to allow for the other player's lag.

If you know which players lag, and how much you need to shoot ahead of them, or you can quickly adjust after you land your first hit and place subsequent shots the right distance in front of laggers, then it's not such an issue.

[Andre2006]

I agree with Geo, nobody in Europe has less than 200 Latency unless they have a super internet, I am currently using 24/24 mbit, so 24 up and 24 down. It's pretty good tho I still have a latency of 200-250, I don't even know why I down go lower.

I use to be among the others with 0-130 latency though this all changed for some reason and I haven't touched anything. I don't see how its an advantage to eat bullets, because for me it's really hard to dodge while others may think it seems easy because I'm eating the bullets but of course I'm not.

[Seeya]

The thing is you see bullets differently then others. If they're using tactic to defeat you, and you're not seeing their bullets the same it ruins all tactic in what they're doing.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Seeya

The thing is you see bullets differently then others. If they're using tactic to defeat you, and you're not seeing their bullets the same it ruins all tactic in what they're doing.

change your tactics

[FantasyX]

Originally Posted by salesman

change your tactics

it's as easy as that. ;p

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Komali

Move to Tokyo, it's only 8 hours away and has the best connection in the world!

Except that your connection is capped at 200kB/s to anywhere outside of Japan, along with a high latency.