Universal Tailor

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Nor do economies or outfit saving NPCs.

That wasn't exactly good English but if you're saying that outfit saving NPCs aren't dependent on graphics then you're wrong.

Because if all players looked the same for one reason or another the outfit saver would become useless.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Inverness

That wasn't exactly good English but if you're saying that outfit saving NPCs aren't dependent on graphics then you're wrong.

Because if all players looked the same for one reason or another the outfit saver would become useless.

Yeah I am, and I knew you'd focus on that one point instead of replying to a valid one. It's pretty damn obvious that outfit saving NPCs are dependent on graphics, because that is what they're saving, but good game. If all of the players looked the same however, do you believe that the gameplay would be the same?

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

If all of the players looked the same however, do you believe that the gameplay would be the same?

Yes, provided gameplay elements don't rely on certain visuals. Such as a red or blue color of a player to tell which team they're on. In Era's case, gameplay does not rely on the player's look. You would tell what gang a player is part of by their nickname, not their outfit.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Yes, provided gameplay elements don't rely on certain visuals. Such as a red or blue color of a player to tell which team they're on.

Okay. Do you believe that Era would be half as successful as it is if you could not choose what you looked like and do you think that an economy is part of the gameplay?

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Okay. Do you believe that Era would be half as successful as it is if you could not choose what you looked like

If Era's success depends on you being able to choose what you look like then it must not have very good gameplay. Games are rated with multiple categories, gameplay and graphics being two of them. They should not depend on the other. A game's success is measured with more than just its gameplay or its graphics.

Originally Posted by Rufus

do you think that an economy is part of the gameplay?

Yes. So if economy falls into the gameplay category then it should not be involved with the graphics category, such as with an outfit saver.

[xXziroXx]

If everyone looked exactly the same in a multiplayer game, it's obvious that the game would become a failure.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

If everyone looked exactly the same in a multiplayer game, it's obvious that the game would become a failure.

As I said, graphics and gameplay are two seperate categories that games are rated on. If you have bad graphics it shouldn't affect the gameplay category.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If Era's success depends on you being able to choose what you look like then it must not have very good gameplay. Games are rated with multiple categories, gameplay and graphics being two of them. They should not depend on the other.

Graphics serve a purpose in many gameplay features, and some gameplay features are for the purpose of looking good graphically. In a good game, graphics and gameplay generally come hand in hand. Presentation has a huge effect on every game overall, and customization on Era and Graal as a whole is a huge part of what is attractive about it.

Originally Posted by Inverness

Yes.

Are you against hats as an item that you buy and sell? They're an example of what I've mentioned above.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

and customization on Era and Graal as a whole is a huge part of what is attractive about it.

This is due to lack of gameplay.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Are you against hats as an item that you buy and sell? They're an example of what I've mentioned above.

It depends on the economy.

In my idea of an economy, I would be against it because hats would serve no gameplay purpose. They're only eye-candy. If hats had gameplay value such as giving you special magic abilities or so (such as the masks in TLoZ: Majora's Mask), then they could be included in economy because they have value.

[DustyPorViva]

If you two keep going back and forth without budging, Darlene might just close this thread because she hates when people do that!

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Inverness

This is due to lack of gameplay.

Not really, there is no other MMO with the amount of customization that Graal has. Graal still has gameplay on servers like Era, Zodiac, and the emphasis on customization is still high. Games often boast customizing characters as a good feature, albeit they don't have as much as Graal, but it is still mentioned and why is that? Because it is a part of the gameplay.

Originally Posted by Inverness

In my idea of an economy, I would be against it because hats would serve no gameplay purpose. They're only eye-candy. If hats had gameplay value such as giving you special magic abilities or so (such as the masks in TLoZ: Majora's Mask), then they could be included in economy because they have value.

That might be your idea of some features in an economy, and that's fair enough but an economy (according to Wikipedia) is the "realized social system of production, exchange, distribution, and consumption of goods and services of a country or other area" which means that eye-candy options on Era are indeed a part of their economy, but not it's only purpose.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Not really, there is no other MMO with the amount of customization that Graal has. Graal still has gameplay on servers like Era, Zodiac, and the emphasis on customization is still high. Games often boast customizing characters as a good feature, albeit they don't have as much as Graal, but it is still mentioned and why is that? Because it is a part of the gameplay.

I said before, when I say game or gameplay I am referring to Era's not Graal's. I view each Playerworld as their own game that simply uses a common engine. The fact that you think customizing your character could be considered part of the gameplay shows how little you know about game development in general.

Originally Posted by Rufus

That might be your idea of some features in an economy, and that's fair enough but an economy (according to Wikipedia) is the "realized social system of production, exchange, distribution, and consumption of goods and services of a country or other area" which means that eye-candy options on Era are indeed a part of their economy, but not it's only purpose.

And those options being part of its economy shows how badly Era is made.

The outfit saver on Era is not produced because a unit is created magically by script. It is not exchanged because there is no reason why anyone would exchange such a thing as it has no gameplay value. And, it is not distributed because no company in Era makes them, and because of my first point.

For an item such as a sword in my economy, it would be produced using component items. It would have to be distributed from the company making it to a store for it to be sold. People could exchange the item because it has a gameplay value other than looking pretty. And consumption would be its utilization.

On EVE, you can make money by mining minerals and selling them to those that need them to make items. You can make money buying minerals and producing an item from them and selling it. You can make money buying items and moving them to another location that needs them. Do such things exist on Era?

I'm tired of arguing about this because you're simply lacking a basic understanding and I don't feel like teaching it to you.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I said before, when I say game or gameplay I am referring to Era's not Graal's. I view each Playerworld as their own game that simply uses a common engine. The fact that you think customizing your character could be considered part of the gameplay shows how little you know about game development in general.

Customization may be just aesthetics and not something you proactively take part in, but they are still a part of the gameplay features. Warhammer Online is a relatively new game on the market, this game focused heavily on advertising it's player customization gameplay features. I guess I'm not the only one who has no idea about game development

Originally Posted by Inverness

And those options being part of its economy shows how badly Era is made.

The outfit saver on Era is not produced because a unit is created magically by script. It is not exchanged because there is no reason why anyone would exchange such a thing as it has no gameplay value. And, it is not distributed because no company in Era makes them, and because of my first point.

For an item such as a sword in my economy, it would be produced using component items. It would have to be distributed from the company making it to a store for it to be sold. People could exchange the item because it has a gameplay value other than looking pretty. And consumption would be its utilization.

LOL I must be insane or something!! An item does not need to have a point of exit to be considered an item in the economy. Economy items are not limited to consistency of theme, they are still items in the economy even if they do not make sense. There is no hat factory on Era, they're just sold in shops and restocked at various times. You trade your money resources for those items, thus they are a part of the economy. I couldn't care less about EVE or any other MMORPG's economy, because it is not relevant to Era's economy.

To reiterate the initial point though, you claimed it should not be a part of the economy, I have stated why it is. Regardless of how bad Era's economy is, it is still a part of the economy and so my point still stands.

[Vulcan]

If such a system were to be created, servers could easily chose whether or not to allow hats be set with this system by it having the server option operate as follows:

globaltailorsystemmode = 1/2/3

• 0 - disabled
• 1 - enabled, with hats
• 2 - enabled, without hats

...or if the system were to be built the way Ziro suggested....

PHP Code:

this.disabledServers = {"Graal Kingdoms", "Zone" };
this.hatsDisabled = {"Zodiac"};
if (!(servername in this.disabledServers)) {
  // proceed
  if (!(servername in this.hatsDisabled)) {
    //set hats
  }
  //set other stuff
} 


[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Customization may be just aesthetics and not something you proactively take part in, but they are still a part of the gameplay features. Warhammer Online is a relatively new game on the market, this game focused heavily on advertising it's player customization gameplay features. I guess I'm not the only one who has no idea about game development

Gameplay and graphics are too separate categories. Just because the retard in charge of the advertising says something doesn't make it correct. I'm not going to argue about this with you because I really don't care whether you know what you're talking about or not. If you decide to go into game development in the future I have confidence that you will get some sense knocked into you.

Originally Posted by Rufus

LOL I must be insane or something!! An item does not need to have a point of exit to be considered an item in the economy.

I said that was my idea of a full-blown in-game economy, not the idea.

Originally Posted by Rufus

I couldn't care less about EVE or any other MMORPG's economy, because it is not relevant to Era's economy.

Learn by example.

Originally Posted by Rufus

so my point still stands.

In your opinion. "Just another money sink" says alot about Era's economy.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If such a system were to be created, servers could easily chose whether or not to allow hats be set with this system by it having the server option operate as follows:

We don't need server options for such minor scripts. There should simply be a clientside script commands called by a system script:

(@ "-GlobalTailor").disable();
(@ "-GlobalTailor").disablehats();
(@ "-GlobalTailor").enable();
(@ "-GlobalTailor").enablehats();

[Angelu]

Inverness sounds like he plays a lot of Shooter :O
choose your Skin, choose your Team, buy your Weapons and gogogo XD
There are Games called Second Life and other "MMOG" where the point of the
Gameplay is to get money and buy visual things for it like clothes hats or whatever and they dont have any effect.
Before you say Rufus know nothing about game development think your own about what Gameplay is...
In the end Gameplay is to do something and to get a Reward for it.
This Reward can be a new Cutscene, a NPC who says "Thank You",
a new Weapon and yes even the fact that you got Money to buy new visual things...

To the Topic:
I have nothing against the System if evry Server can disable it without any reason...

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Angelu

<snip>

I already mentioned that community-type games are the exception because they're based on interaction with other people.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If you think event coins can be considered an economy then we have very different definitions of economy.

I feel you lost all credibility after you said this, and stopped reading.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I already mentioned that community-type games are the exception because they're based on interaction with other people.

In case you missed it, Graal is one huge community based game, and no server is an exception to that.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

In case you missed it, Graal is one huge community based game, and no server is an exception to that.

Zone is an exception.

[Shotoo2]

Hats and style-savers are luxury items, and luxury items are a major part of most economies.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Angelu

Inverness sounds like he plays a lot of Shooter :O
To the Topic:
I have nothing against the server if evry Server can disable it without any reason...

If every system can disable it with no reason then we'll just end up where we are now. Every server is going to prefer to use their own whether it's superior or not, and then you're just gonna end up with a bunch of different ways to do it, and a lot more confusion.

Sure, tailor systems are part of some economies but I think servers that do so can suffer this very minor blow. It's not gonna cause a global economic crash or anything.

[Angelu]

iam sure there are people out there who dont like your style changer thing (the style of it or whatever)
but if they have no reason to not use it you will force this people to do
i have the same prob with this taskbar
we arent allowed to disable it but it is ugly and if you resize it you have this arrow on the screen

let stefan add something on login where you can set your style (like in the old version)
so you have it on the first time you connect to a server

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If every system can disable it with no reason then we'll just end up where we are now. Every server is going to prefer to use their own whether it's superior or not, and then you're just gonna end up with a bunch of different ways to do it, and a lot more confusion.

Sure, tailor systems are part of some economies but I think servers that do so can suffer this very minor blow. It's not gonna cause a global economic crash or anything.

Simply separate the GUI and the system into separate weapons. This would allow a server to make their own GUI for the tailor system or use the default one which would use the same system functions.

Originally Posted by Crono

I feel you lost all credibility after you said this, and stopped reading.

My definition of economy is something quite grand. You may apply that definition to something lesser but that doesn't mean I will. *sneering* I suppose since your (and Graal's) standards are so low I'll have to temporarily adjust my definition to encompass yours since you'll have issues otherwise.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

In case you missed it, Graal is one huge community based game, and no server is an exception to that.

Graal is capable of making exceptions to that, a server with solid gameplay of its own.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Inverness

My definition of economy is something quite grand. You may apply that definition to something lesser but that doesn't mean I will. *sneering* I suppose since your (and Graal's) standards are so low I'll have to temporarily adjust my definition to encompass yours since you'll have issues otherwise.

How are event coins not part of the economy, big boy?

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Crono

How are event coins not part of the economy, big boy?

Maybe you shouldn't have stopped reading.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Maybe you shouldn't have stopped reading.

I went back and read, you didn't answer it.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Crono

I went back and read, you didn't answer it.

It's all a matter of what people consider worthy of the label "economy."

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Inverness

It's all a matter of what people consider worthy of the label "economy."

No, not really. Any product used for distribution or consumption is part of the economy, whether you like it or not. I just have a degree in Economy and Administration, but hey what do I know.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Inverness

It's all a matter of what people consider worthy of the label "economy."

No, no it's not LOL.

It doesn't matter if its a bad economy or a good economy, an economy is an economy. If you can exchange your event coins with other players for goods on a playerworld then they're part of the economy. If you deny event coints as being part of the economy then you'd also have to deny rupees, because both serve the same role atleast on UN.

Now whether event coins should be part of an economy is a different issue which, for the record, I stand against.

[Rufus]

Lmao this is still going on? Man I stopped when Inverness IM'd me crying about replying, so please guys stop responding! He's wrong, you know he's wrong, I know he's wrong, and apparently nothing that is said is going to open his eyes.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Crono

It doesn't matter if its a bad economy or a good economy, an economy is an economy.

I'm not talking about good and bad but rather size and depth.

Originally Posted by Crono

Now whether event coins should be part of an economy is a different issue which, for the record, I stand against.

Me too.

Don't know why ya'll are still arguing about it. When someone says in-game economy I'm going to think EVE and ya'll are going to think Graal. That's not going to change. So ya'll are just going to have to accept it as one of my quirks.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Angelu

iam sure there are people out there who dont like your style changer thing (the style of it or whatever)
but if they have no reason to not use it you will force this people to do
i have the same prob with this taskbar
we arent allowed to disable it but it is ugly and if you resize it you have this arrow on the screen

let stefan add something on login where you can set your style (like in the old version)
so you have it on the first time you connect to a server

Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Originally Posted by Inverness

Simply separate the GUI and the system into separate weapons. This would allow a server to make their own GUI for the tailor system or use the default one which would use the same system functions.

Players have the ability to make the default GUI system look however they like. Either way I don't think any server should have the ability to just disable this system because they want to. I don't mind them being able to replace it with a better one, but I think that would also have to be approved. The whole point of this is to have one universal function for one simple thing, and you give these servers a choice and they'll turn it into a big complicated matter like it is now.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Players have the ability to make the default GUI system look however they like. Either way I don't think any server should have the ability to just disable this system because they want to. I don't mind them being able to replace it with a better one, but I think that would also have to be approved. The whole point of this is to have one universal function for one simple thing, and you give these servers a choice and they'll turn it into a big complicated matter like it is now.

You misunderstand, my suggestion would allow each server to design the GUI the way they wish if they don't want to use the default one. Their custom GUI would still use the same system so it would still save across all servers. That way a server could add on their own things to the GUI while still keeping it compatible.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Inverness

You misunderstand, my suggestion would allow each server to design the GUI the way they wish if they don't want to use the default one. Their custom GUI would still use the same system so it would still save across all servers. That way a server could add on their own things to the GUI while still keeping it compatible.

I'm fine with that.