A graal rule

[Tom]

Everyone by know should know the rule, whatever is uploaded to graal belongs to graal, including graphics.

Someone whos a law student saw that this rule couldnt be enforced at all

Does anyone else know about this?

Discussion.

[Project]

It's the internet.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Project

It's the internet.

Eh??

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Tom

Everyone by know should know the rule, whatever is uploaded to graal belongs to graal, including graphics.

Someone whos a law student saw that this rule couldnt be enforced at all

Does anyone else know about this?

Discussion.

As far as I know, anything you upload to Graal immediately belongs to Cyberjoueurs based on the agreement that you make when you create an account.

By default, anything you create is technically copywritten to yourself to protect your work from being stolen and used by someone else. However, you are willingly giving your work to Graal, so therefore you really won't have any grounds to demand it's removal.

Think of the work you upload as a gift to Graal. You cannot take it back once it is given. If you *do* take it back, Cyberjoueurs has the right to pursue legal action because you gave it to them and agreed that it belonged to them.

Saying "but I'm underage and I can't make agreements like that" is not going to fly. The judge would probably determine that you're old enough to understand the agreement and that you're just trying to harm the company by removing your work.

Basically...

edit: A good example of this is Yen and his scripts. He demanded they be removed yet they are still up. If he takes them to court what is he going to say for his defense? That he donated these things to the game and now that they banned him he wants to "un-donate" them? You just can't do that. It's not as though a contract was signed that said he could ask for his scripts to be removed at any time and they would have to do so.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by konidias

As far as I know, anything you upload to Graal immediately belongs to Cyberjoueurs based on the agreement that you make when you create an account.

By default, anything you create is technically copywritten to yourself to protect your work from being stolen and used by someone else. However, you are willingly giving your work to Graal, so therefore you really won't have any grounds to demand it's removal.

Think of the work you upload as a gift to Graal. You cannot take it back once it is given. If you *do* take it back, Cyberjoueurs has the right to pursue legal action because you gave it to them and agreed that it belonged to them.

Saying "but I'm underage and I can't make agreements like that" is not going to fly. The judge would probably determine that you're old enough to understand the agreement and that you're just trying to harm the company by removing your work.

Basically...

edit: A good example of this is Yen and his scripts. He demanded they be removed yet they are still up. If he takes them to court what is he going to say for his defense? That he donated these things to the game and now that they banned him he wants to "un-donate" them? You just can't do that. It's not as though a contract was signed that said he could ask for his scripts to be removed at any time and they would have to do so.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[Tom]

Nice konidias, well explained.

I wasnt planning on taking anything down, its just an old member called Shaun said something about it, and he said it was a huge loop hole in the terms and agreement. So i was just interested.

[excaliber7388]

I think the problem is, if you are under 18, you cannot legally enter a binding contract. So you can't give their work away.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I think the problem is, if you are under 18, you cannot legally enter a binding contract. So you can't give their work away.

Yes, however if you read Konidias post you would have seen him mention that any judge would realize you're intelligent enough to agree to a contract and that, in Yen's case, one is just being an ass.

[excaliber7388]

I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol, but the judge wouldn't let me drink on that one.
Try again

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol, but the judge wouldn't let me drink on that one.
Try again

That's a stupid analogy.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Tom

Nice konidias, well explained.

I wasnt planning on taking anything down, its just an old member called Shaun said something about it, and he said it was a huge loop hole in the terms and agreement. So i was just interested.

They can't really make you transfer ownership of the material. That is, if you were to make something, upload it to Graal, and then go and then make your own game and use it again, Graal couldn't sue you. However, once you upload something to Graal you can't legally demand its removal.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol

That's hardly debate worthy

[Devil]

Originally Posted by Project

It's the internet.

So so true.

[Draenin]

The chances of a lawsuit stemming from mossyrock.png or glowysword.gif being used for something else is slim, because nobody would pay to begin a suit over that. I think that Cyberjoueurs' main concern would be what types of things are re-used. You wouldn't want to see other things using .graal or .gani files for their own software. Things that, by default, are Cyberjoueurs material would be a prime concern.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by zokemon

That's a stupid analogy.

It's perfect.
You can't prove I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol, and you can't prove Yen is intelligent enough to know what he's agreed to.
See? There's age limits, you have to abide by them strictly.
If you're not 18, it doesn't matter if you're a freaking genius, you're not smart enough to enter a legal contract.

[PrinceDark]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's perfect.
You can't prove I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol, and you can't prove Yen is intelligent enough to know what he's agreed to.
See? There's age limits, you have to abide by them strictly.
If you're not 18, it doesn't matter if you're a freaking genius, you're not smart enough to enter a legal contract.

Cali thats the dumbest analogy. How can you compare this to a drink that alters your way of thinking? Does too much Graal alter your perception? It probably did for you. lol j/k but seriously.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

Cali thats the dumbest analogy. How can you compare this to a drink that alters your way of thinking? Does too much Graal alter your perception? It probably did for you. lol j/k but seriously.

I'm not talking about the affects, obviously they're different.
Just like the train and train station are different than the plane and the airport.
But they have the same function.
Okay, try saying "Your honor, the client was smart enough to be counted as an 18 year old, and forfeiting all the work he's done was an obvious choice for a smart person".
You won't win a case if you try to say "but he's mature enough" since it cannot be proven.
That's what we use age limits.
That's why a minor cannot be legally bound to a contract.

[Devil]

Or how about, THIS CRAP WILL NEVER GET TO SEE A COURT ROOM.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

That's why a minor cannot be legally bound to a contract.

That's why sometimes minors get tried as adults... Whoops. Guess that ruins your argument.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by konidias

That's why sometimes minors get tried as adults... Whoops. Guess that ruins your argument.

They wouldnt try a minor as an adult over graphics for a game, and it probably wouldnt go to court.

But i see what ex is saying, they abide by the rules of being 18, regardless. And googi said it perfect.

[zokemon]

The age 18 isn't really having to do with intelligence...it has to do with responcibility.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's perfect.
You can't prove I'm intelligent enough to handle my alcohol, and you can't prove Yen is intelligent enough to know what he's agreed to.
See? There's age limits, you have to abide by them strictly.
If you're not 18, it doesn't matter if you're a freaking genius, you're not smart enough to enter a legal contract.

It doesn't really matter that much how old you are. The fact is that you entered an agreement with Cyberjoueurs. If you don't understand the agreement, you shouldn't be agreeing to it.

[Rufus]

I'm pretty naive when it comes to law, but where is any of this noted in the User Agreement? http://www.graalonline.com/docs/agreement.php

[Admins]

Discussions about laws and rules don't really belong here. You can check out the rules of Myspace which are quite similar (regarding uploaded content).