Time for a new server.

[Googi]

The primary cause of 2K2's declining activity isn't anything to do with the economy, statistical inequality, corruption, kingdoms or lack of updates. I'll give short explanations as to why each of those isn't the reason, if you don't think the explanations are adequate, then object to them and I'll give more detail.

Economy - The value of the "core" items has not changed. Diamonds have remained fixed at 500 platinum coins, RoWs at 500 diamonds, Gold Keys and Event Coins at 20 diamonds, etc. There is no inflation. One could argue that there has been deflation in the values of semi-rare items, but that's because of loss of demand from a declining playerbase, so that's an effect of the decline, not a cause of it (furthermore, deflation is possibly desirable). Economic inequality also isn't the cause because many of the richest and oldest players quit or became inactive before or at the beginning of the decline, meaning that the decline occurred in (and we are currently in) a period of greater wealth equality than in the past.

Statistical inequality - See above. The rich oldbies were pretty much the guys with the good stats too.

Corruption - There have been no major changes in staff, and I see no reason to believe that the amount of corruption has increased or that corruption is having a greater effect on more players than in the past.

Kingdoms - Kingdoms have always been a sideshow, something far from being the first priority for the vast majority of their members, and the members who have, for the most part, stuck around are generally the people more "into" kingdoms and RPing. Although the absolute amount of kingdom activity has decreased, I would estimate that it has increased as a percentage of server activity (i.e. the percentage of players who wear their tag has increased, etc.)

Lack of Updates - The fact is, to a new player, each specific feature is new regardless of how long it's been on the server. Updates have been sparse for a long time without having an effect on the playercount. Besides, look at Zone. Even when new planets are added, people tend to prefer to stick to Iricia.

School/Vacation Cycle - I didn't list this at the beginning of the thread, but I'm including it because someone always seems to bring it up to explain any kind of activity decline. If the decline occurs during a school period, it's because people are in school and activity will pick up once a vacation season beings. If the decline occurs during a vacation season, it's because people are away from home and activity will pick up when school starts again. Both predictions have always been wrong.

The cause of 2K2's decline isn't any of these, but rather because it's core system has gotten "old". Not in terms of age but in terms of player experience with it. A player who plays 2K2 for the first time is more likely to have played another server or another game that uses 2K2's core system (exp, stats, etc.) than in the past, so 2K2 no longer has anything special to it aside from "gimmicks". Even if you magically doubled the amount of content on the server, you'd be lucky to get more than a two month activity spike out of it because you've really only doubled the amount of "gimmicks". Reviving 2K2 would require changing the server so drastically that it would no longer be 2K2, so it's better simply to create a new server. Therefore, any developmental energy being put into new features for 2K2 is a waste of time and should instead be put into developing a new server with a completely innovative core system.

[bgumeny]

That is a very interesting point, and I agree.

[MasterNuke]

Gah. Googi beat me to it.

[Waltz5]

They can't even keep GK updated... no way a new server would/could be constructed.

[jonnyrocks2]

Googi, talking about Servers or are you talking about the gameplay? The way you worded it up, you're talking about one or the other...

Server to Player Lag:

Personally, the lag is a serious issue right now, and honestly, the only way it will be fixed is if they dish out some money to buy some brand new servers, dump all the data over, get a dedicated connection for the servers, get additional servers for down the road for future servers, and with all of this done, pray to god you don't go bankrupt. Truth is, with the lag, and economic restraints, they really can't expand, unless if the money is there to expand. Lack of money...No Expansion...No new servers and connection lines to decrease the lag, and to increase the flow of traffic that can move between the server and the player.

We also have to take into account over seas servers travel either by under water cables ( Dirt slow ), and by Satellite connections ( Unreliable ), which leaves those that are overseas in a dead end situation as well with Lag. To solve this, they would have to throw a branch over seas, again, money would be required there, then the purchase of servers for over seas, dedicated lines...again, money.

What I'm boiling down to, without the funds, the ones running the server for Kingdoms will never be able to expand until they get the right amount of cash. Once they do, they may choose to build on that first to have a small "Fall back" amount.

Updates:

As for the updates...People being way too lazy with the updates, I don't even want to go in depth on that, personally.

I hope this clears things up with everyone before they start trying to lobe their frags about.

Edit:

Also with the overseas part, they would also need a line between the two branches...AKA more cash.

[Torankusu]

no, he basically means what everyone's known all along.
G2k2 is in fact: DEAD.

It offers nothing different, or of interest to those who play more than just one video game, which, is pretty much anyone who plays computer video games or video games period. The Kingdoms server cannot be revived because there is nothing that could possibly make it interesting with the systems that are in effect today.

And for some advice as to what would make a good playerworld...Look at Graal 2001. It didn't notice a decline for almost a year. What caused the decline? Graal 2002/Graal Kingdoms.


And the reason Graal Kingdoms doesn't SEE updates is because it is POINTLESS to update something that is BEYOND saving.



Good luck with the game guys. I'm not flaming you, I'm just trying to suggest things that may help you become more successful.

[Draenin]

I don't even like to think of Kingdoms much nowadays. It's a server that's going to eventually destroy itself, even if you left it alone.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by jonnyrocks2

Googi, talking about Servers or are you talking about the gameplay? The way you worded it up, you're talking about one or the other...

Huh? Did you even read it? It's about how developers should stop wasting time on pointless updates for 2K2 that people stop caring about after 2 minutes and start making a new gold server.

[Devil]

Originally Posted by Googi

Huh? start making a new gold server.

Yes please!

[WarLord2004]

God when would graalonline.com be as it use to back 5 years ago...

Everything now is p2p even for some classics..
Another gold server is pointless and would add more lagg.

[Stephen]

A fairly good point from Googi. Well thought out and and delivered.

[Devil]

Originally Posted by WarLord2004

God when would graalonline.com be as it use to back 5 years ago...

Everything now is p2p even for some classics..
Another gold server is pointless and would add more lagg.

The point was to get rid of Kingdoms and make a new server.

[Draenin]

Me and someone else were supposed to be doing something in relation to this, but Stefan was wanting to copy over Kingdoms' engine and so on, and I told him no. Kingdoms' current engine would break any decent server out today, no matter how much you try to change it without changing it completely.

[zim5354]

maybe the new (new new?) g2k1 will give you guys a safe haven.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by zim5354

maybe the new (new new?) g2k1 will give you guys a safe haven.

It's not a gold server. I also don't trust it's long-term sustainability.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Googi

It's not a gold server. I also don't trust it's long-term sustainability.

Based on its track record I dont blame you.

[jonnyrocks2]

Originally Posted by Googi

Huh? Did you even read it? It's about how developers should stop wasting time on pointless updates for 2K2 that people stop caring about after 2 minutes and start making a new gold server.

Sorry m8, brain was near dead that night from the lack of sleep I had that week.

Honestly, I think Graal reached its limit with Zone and Kingdoms...I honestly doubt on future development really...and Graal 3D...all I can say at it is Meh...that lost its luster after just a few days unfortunately for it.

Even if Kingdoms continues downhill, I'll still stick around until everyone leaves, then I'll move on to a different server...I just feel that Kingdoms back in the day was fun, but also I think 2k1's revival may boost moral a bit...I hope.

[zell12]

I say corruption killed the server. Pretty much every admin turned to greed and started making their own things on the server. Weather it was spawning monsters in the tunnels to the kingdoms, or spawning random items. I'm sure most of you remember the names, and I blame them. Might have even interested me to continue upgrading to play GK if it wasn't filled with bs and corruption at the time.


But man, it has changed a lot. Time to remove the admin toys, log the Admin's actions, add most or all of the spells and other things like the gods, and so on and so on. It won't get any better.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by zell12

I say corruption killed the server. Pretty much every admin turned to greed and started making their own things on the server. Weather it was spawning monsters in the tunnels to the kingdoms, or spawning random items. I'm sure most of you remember the names, and I blame them. Might have even interested me to continue upgrading to play GK if it wasn't filled with bs and corruption at the time.


But man, it has changed a lot. Time to remove the admin toys, log the Admin's actions, add most or all of the spells and other things like the gods, and so on and so on. It won't get any better.

Sorry but this sounds to me you not to have the vaguest notion of the staff or how the things are working on GK. You speculate about stuff that don't exists since a long time anymore. Trust me, it's better to talk about facts and not about things you dont have any clue about.

[Admins]

I think Graal Kingdoms will have a bright future There are really things missing right now. We have a lot of systems and weapons but it is missing new quests/dungeons and interaction between kingdoms. But I think it is possible to have that. Actually the time spend in Graal3D is also helping Graal2D because we have improved the particle system, GUI etc. and got more ideas about how to make a game more fun in terms of clasisc-style fighting and zelda-like quests and dungeons.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I think Graal Kingdoms will have a bright future There are really things missing right now. We have a lot of systems and weapons but it is missing new quests/dungeons and interaction between kingdoms. But I think it is possible to have that. Actually the time spend in Graal3D is also helping Graal2D because we have improved the particle system, GUI etc. and got more ideas about how to make a game more fun in terms of clasisc-style fighting and zelda-like quests and dungeons.

Updates aren't really the point here.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Googi

Updates aren't really the point here.

although it is nice to hear that SOMETHING is happining.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by zim5354

although it is nice to hear that SOMETHING is happining.

Not when we know things are still going to stay the same regardless.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Not when we know things are still going to stay the same regardless.

Well new features would be nice for 2d graal as for GK we might as well dig a hole.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Sam

Sorry but this sounds to me you not to have the vaguest notion of the staff or how the things are working on GK. You speculate about stuff that don't exists since a long time anymore. Trust me, it's better to talk about facts and not about things you dont have any clue about.

Sam, don't start with me son. I've been involved with the server for a long time; I've seen it happen. But the events that took place long ago with the staff pretty much destroyed the server. Just an example, players from Dustari jumped to the max level in only a few days with the help of that Monster creator thing, whatever it was called.

Might have changed since then, but the effects of the past are still felt today.

[SayianOozaru]

Originally Posted by zell12

I say corruption killed the server. Pretty much every admin turned to greed and started making their own things on the server. Weather it was spawning monsters in the tunnels to the kingdoms, or spawning random items. I'm sure most of you remember the names, and I blame them. Might have even interested me to continue upgrading to play GK if it wasn't filled with bs and corruption at the time.

Thats when everyone played most. When people like Jagen abused there rights, I can remember seeing 115 people on once. Just because even though its "frowned" upon to abuse rights, it helps the economy. "How" is probly what your wondering. How many good items are evented off a year on GK? 3 (I think thats the number I was told). That means only 3 times a year an item like a WarHammer, or a Inferno Sword, or an Inferno Dagger, or a Tainted Grace are evented off. The "abusive" staff kept the server alive. Look at GK now, thats what happens when only 3 good items are evented off a year. That rules stupid anyways. There used to be 60-80 players on a day when they had a chance at getting something rare and new. Now that they have to wait a long ass time to get something like that, and probably miss when the events being held, I guess players just dont feel the need to put all that time into it. And with players quitting, they hold there stuff and so the "economy" loses out on all those items the person had.

Anyway Im just rambling now, mighta got off topic...may have even confused a few...i know im not sure what i was talking about lokl...

[zell12]

Originally Posted by SayianOozaru

Anyway Im just rambling now, mighta got off topic...may have even confused a few...i know im not sure what i was talking about lokl...

What did you post for then?

Since you brang Jagen into the picture, I remember him and other person spawning monsters for his friends. I also participated in one of Jagens plans to spawn a whole bunch of random items, he kept the good ones for himself like the RoWs, etc...


I think if there was a more diverse amount of items and weapons in the game there wouldn't be a problem. Drops from monsters. Not just this Event items bs.

Yeah, they could be good, but not THAT good.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by SayianOozaru

Thats when everyone played most. When people like Jagen abused there rights, I can remember seeing 115 people on once. Just because even though its "frowned" upon to abuse rights, it helps the economy.

It didn't "help the economy", and in any case, the economy isn't even an issue here because the state of the economy is fine and isn't the cause of 2K2's decline.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by zell12

I also participated in one of Jagens plans to spawn a whole bunch of random items, he kept the good ones for himself like the RoWs, etc...

And you didn't hook a brother up?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stephen

And you didn't hook a brother up?

Ahahaha, there are no brothers on Graal.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Stephen

And you didn't hook a brother up?

I never recieved anything at all really, a few Ring of Thieves, and some other assorted goods. When we alchemy'd the stuff he didn't want, I never even got the gold.


Not that I cared, but another example was on G2k1 in his PH, he had a bunch of things in there as well...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by zell12

Sam, don't start with me son. I've been involved with the server for a long time....
Might have changed since then, but the effects of the past are still felt today.

Okay dad you're talking about the past. The current GP and me cought Jagen and get him finally globally banned. There is almost no scamming anymore and we prevent cheating as well.
I am not sure if all this is a reason why people lose interest in "playing" GK, but it might be a reason, because they cant use it to make lots of money anymore.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Sam

I am not sure if all this is a reason why people lose interest in "playing" GK, but it might be a reason, because they cant use it to make lots of money anymore.

Ha, that's laughable. I don't want to mention names, but it's quite obvious.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Sam

Okay dad you're talking about the past. The current GP and me cought Jagen and get him finally globally banned. There is almost no scamming anymore and we prevent cheating as well.
I am not sure if all this is a reason why people lose interest in "playing" GK, but it might be a reason, because they cant use it to make lots of money anymore.

Well, thats great someone finally caught the bastard. too bad Lance (Opps, did I say that out loud?) wasn't caught for spawning monsters.

Anyway, past affected the current state of the server more then you think pal, but I wouldn't expect you to remember that far back, especially when you wern't there.

My opinion, as it was last few years now, make a new server when you guys finish fixing the server. (Adding stuff that is supposed to be in the game, not adding "new" things.) Keep the old server, and open a new one that's fixed.

[Galdor]

cool gief new server

[zim5354]

i think gk could be saved by a reset and a few new staff members and a more active (real rp this time) rp community. no one wants to play now since you pay the USD for a char or grind hours and hours and never get as good not to mention everyones level capped and for a RP server its pretty stale.

A rp cordnator could do events and reset with compensation for the current players. Although people could debate on if a real RP server would even have levels but hm another thread for that I guess.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by zim5354

i think gk could be saved by a reset

No, because resets do not work. Name one case where a server experienced a reversal of fortune because of a reset.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Googi

No, because resets do not work. Name one case where a server experienced a reversal of fortune because of a reset.

Different for different types of environments/games/communities in my opinion. Heck, even Graal servers reset in the past, and still made it out fine..

In my opinion I think a sort of reset would work. Might lose a few players, but we are sure going to gain a lot more. New ones to the game once the server is more appealing. Then it can be advertised and be taken serious and gain more interest. As well as the old players that don't think the server is well balanced and beyond fixing in the current state without a new server.

Sure, keep the old server and don't update it. Once the server from its present state is fixed and updated with new and old ideas, add it to the server list and move the other to the hosted tab or something.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by zim5354

i think gk could be saved by a reset

once Zodiac got reset when it was hosted a really really really really long time ago and all the players who played quit even some staff did.

[hampy]

Originally Posted by zim5354

i think gk could be saved by a reset

No, it couldn't... that would just make it much, much worse

Edit: From an earlier post I read, GK is not as popular now because the lack of updates, not scamming or USDing or anything like that, as Sam said the current GPs and him do a very good job