game design - read this stefan!

[FreakyQueen]

currently in zones, many (maybe most?) people use commando for the speed and the appirces.
combat in zone is largely defensive: you fire your shots and hope your opponet makes a mistake and hits your bullets. its not hard at all to dodge bullets as long as you never return fire - skill is in firing without getting hit
this is tiresome for us many pistol users because fights can last hundreds of bullets before someone is killed because its easy to dodge bullets.. longe range at least.
my favorite pistol fights are the one that take place up close, where the 2 characters are pushing against each other and the players try to outmanuever each other - as soon as theres an opening between the players, you have to decide to shoot, dodge potential bullets by moving to the side or close the gap between you. you have to react faster because when your half a body length away from someone, its impossible to dodge bullets, and a few lengths away it becomes very tricky. but when you are a quarter screen away.. its not too tough.
rifle fighting is very interesting compared to pistols. rifles shoot very directly, so you have to be accurate. but at a medium range, rifle shots move so fast they are tough to dodge -- much tougher then the bullets from appirces, apripper or handgun.
i like rifle battles because the fight isnt so much about dodging - which can go on until your oponet makes a mistake.. so much as it is about aiming and getting a good angle - a good shot on your oponet.
in pistol fights, a large part of hitting your opponet is if they make a mistake.
in rifle fights, hitting your opponet is largely a result of you moving and aiming correctly -- not them failing to dodge.
so how to make pistols more.. offensive in nature?
ive got several ideas, please post any you have:
-faster bullets: bullets that move at rifle speed would help this a lot i think
-move much faster if unarmed: lets you close in on your opponet real fast, and then you have manuevering and aiming battles.. where mistakes are easier to make (you have less space to dodge) - so fights are resolved quicker and hundreds of bullets arnt spent on one target.
comments? ideas?
stefan?

[bahamutstevetff]

another essay, just give the jist so we dont grow old readin it

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by FreakyQueen

handgun.

DON'T EVER! *Slaps* EVER! *Slaps* MENTION THAT UNHOLY WORD ON THESE FORUMS AGAIN! *Slaps*
I think increasing bullet speed won't help, but the speed of each class should be increased. Overall not just for commando and scout I think the speed of EVERY class should be increased.

[Crono]

Zone is fair and good enough as it is. Running faster when guns and stuff aren't out is MEH.

[Splke]

Sounds like a bad idea. Handguns shouldn't be primary weaponary, it's a secondary weapon in most games. Rifles should be better, if anything.

[Akoalin]

Originally Posted by Splke

Rifles should be better, if anything.

Yeah... who pulls out a pistol during war?

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by Akoalin

Yeah... who pulls out a pistol during war?

She always waste our time with these 20 sentence topics.

[MisterMastermind]

Originally Posted by Wind_Master

She always waste our time with these 20 sentence topics.

Ako's a dude....... and uhhh i'd pull out a handgun during battle. but liek handgun the weapon is overpowered. i've never heard of a handgun with a spread like that. i mean apps is pushing it but handgun has broken the list of lame and almost lame.

[jkool666]

In EVERY shooting game I use pistols... And handguns arn't pistols in zone (kinda messed up) Btw I didn't bother to read all that I meen it would take me the remainder of my night... Is it anything like the other posts?

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by MisterMastermind

Ako's a dude....... and uhhh i'd pull out a handgun during battle. but liek handgun the weapon is overpowered. i've never heard of a handgun with a spread like that. i mean apps is pushing it but handgun has broken the list of lame and almost lame.

Im not talking about ako. Im talking about freakyqueen. I quoted him because I am agreeing with him.

[SayianOozaru]

well, i think it's good the way it is. Freakyqueen, if ur spending that much time on a fight, learn to move in closer. I get up really close in spars(or at least try) because i'm not that good at long range...but because i get up close, my spars/battles don't last to long ask anyone i've spared, it only lasts 45 sec. tops...and like 10 sec. at the least

the only time i see a fight last longer than a min. is when it's 2 long range people fighting...

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Akoalin

Yeah... who pulls out a pistol during war?

Yeah but Zone is ghetto, it's after a lot of fighting and stuff. XD

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Yeah but Zone is ghetto, it's after a lot of fighting and stuff. XD

You obviously do not understand the meaning of being Ghetto. Zone is a futuristic server not a "Ghetto" server.

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by Wind_Master

You obviously do not understand the meaning of being Ghetto. Zone is a futuristic server not a "Ghetto" server.

Era is "Ghetto". XD

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by Huwajux

Era is "Ghetto". XD

Ghetto is a poor area with many gangs and many crimes. A game cant be ghetto. But you guys problly wont know that. I grew up in a poor area so I would know.

[FreakyQueen]

yah sayin, i have been trying to rush people so the fights dont take so long..
just charge at them and then start firing only up close.. problem is its tough to get close sometimes because people just strafe back and.. the fight goes on.
in zone: you aim, they can dodge.
unlike other videogames (and in real life too) you aim: their hit.
zone is largely defensive.. i dont know -- in 1 way its kinda fun, but sometimes it gets too drawn out..

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by FreakyQueen

yah sayin, i have been trying to rush people so the fights dont take so long..
just charge at them and then start firing only up close.. problem is its tough to get close sometimes because people just strafe back and.. the fight goes on.
in zone: you aim, they can dodge.
unlike other videogames (and in real life too) you aim: their hit.
zone is largely defensive.. i dont know -- in 1 way its kinda fun, but sometimes it gets too drawn out..

Ya, I agree.

[jkool666]

Originally Posted by FreakyQueen

yah sayin, i have been trying to rush people so the fights dont take so long..
just charge at them and then start firing only up close.. problem is its tough to get close sometimes because people just strafe back and.. the fight goes on.
in zone: you aim, they can dodge.
unlike other videogames (and in real life too) you aim: their hit.
zone is largely defensive.. i dont know -- in 1 way its kinda fun, but sometimes it gets too drawn out..

2 things for this...
1. Anyone good doesn't strafe in a pistol spar. (So find new people)
2. Since I have seen you spar before, I can fairly say this... You run non stop and strafe backwards. Heres some advise. To have a close range spar, don't run away.

[FreakyQueen]

yeah, i realized that (running / strafing) is kinda cheap.. and not as fun either.
so i try to fight close range all the time now [i hit brawler in a duel a few times ! ]
and i do agree that strafe can be cheap.. its not too bad close range (its actually kinda tricky to use at point blank range), but med-long range it can get a bit cheap: automatically hit with no chance of the enemy hitting you.
i think zone combat -- with all its defensive abilities -- works well close range, but long range it just gets (near) impossible to hit. whats bad is, if someone doesnt want to fight.. they dont have to. especially in wild cross because it is mostly open space, you can run forever..
you cant run very far in alpha or ilricia because of all the obstacles \ walls that prevent you from moving so, fighting by default takes place close range because you cant run very far without having to switch course (and thus slowing you down for a bit).
i wish there was some way to prevent fleeing so easily.. i really think wild cross should have obstacles and cover like alpha/ilricia so you cant runback and avoid damage..
of course, people can enforce this themselves with bounty hunts (this has happened to me a few times haha) where people gang up on someone who blatantly flees
the crossbow can help with this.. but i think obstacles would make deathmatchers unable to run away..

(btw, anyone have comments on my idea that strafe costs energy or a 'strafe bar'?)

[maximus_asinus]

Isn't it obvious? In the future, projectiles slowed down, to the speed where they wouldn't really inflict damage, but due to pollution, the human skeleton became very weak.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Wind_Master

You obviously do not understand the meaning of being Ghetto. Zone is a futuristic server not a "Ghetto" server.

Do you even know the story behind zone?

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by FreakyQueen

yeah, i realized that (running / strafing) is kinda cheap.. and not as fun either.
so i try to fight close range all the time now [i hit brawler in a duel a few times ! ]
and i do agree that strafe can be cheap.. its not too bad close range (its actually kinda tricky to use at point blank range), but med-long range it can get a bit cheap: automatically hit with no chance of the enemy hitting you.
i think zone combat -- with all its defensive abilities -- works well close range, but long range it just gets (near) impossible to hit. whats bad is, if someone doesnt want to fight.. they dont have to. especially in wild cross because it is mostly open space, you can run forever..
you cant run very far in alpha or ilricia because of all the obstacles \ walls that prevent you from moving so, fighting by default takes place close range because you cant run very far without having to switch course (and thus slowing you down for a bit).
i wish there was some way to prevent fleeing so easily.. i really think wild cross should have obstacles and cover like alpha/ilricia so you cant runback and avoid damage..
of course, people can enforce this themselves with bounty hunts (this has happened to me a few times haha) where people gang up on someone who blatantly flees
the crossbow can help with this.. but i think obstacles would make deathmatchers unable to run away..

(btw, anyone have comments on my idea that strafe costs energy or a 'strafe bar'?)

To put it in short. Strafing is "Laemorz". The crawl feature should be removed during a deathmatch. It should also have a mini map which SHOWS where other players are. Would help maby?

[jkool666]

Originally Posted by Huwajux

To put it in short. Strafing is "Laemorz". The crawl feature should be removed during a deathmatch. It should also have a mini map which SHOWS where other players are. Would help maby?

Best words said on this thread...

[anubis_wing]

Originally Posted by Huwajux

To put it in short. Strafing is "Laemorz". The crawl feature should be removed during a deathmatch. It should also have a mini map which SHOWS where other players are. Would help maby?

Short,sweet and right to the point

[MisterMastermind]

i often liked that idea. I've wasted hours in deathmatch (total) looking for the idiot who think they can hide fomr all powerful-back on topic..... their should be a mini-map thing for zone like on kingdoms. cept on iricia. thats kidna fun crawling up to b1 the owning all the noobs who think they can stop the almighty typho-back on topic again, strafing should take away energy (like 10 per second) which would stop these stupid lamers..... not saying any names.... (freaky queen)... on another topic... proxies should not be invisible. there should be some way to see landmines on commando class without running into them. and fleeing from battle should be fixed somehow.
Summarized:running/strafing/invisible proxies are lame and should be removed.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by MisterMastermind

and fleeing from battle should be fixed somehow.
Summarized:running/strafing/invisible proxies are lame and should be removed.

Oh shut the hell up.

Tons of people are lame, but you don't see me asking THEM to be removed? Hell I should ban every person who owns elites with OHNOES "non-pro" weapons while I'm at it.

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Oh shut the hell up.

Agreed, yet what is the point in this thread again? Close it for whatever it's purpose was.

[MisterMastermind]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Oh shut the hell up.

Tons of people are lame, but you don't see me asking THEM to be removed? Hell I should ban every person who owns elites with OHNOES "non-pro" weapons while I'm at it.

that boys and girls is called flaming.....

on a not so different note.....
Tip Of The Day: dont flame people who own you.

[MisterMastermind]

ya ya double post i know. but i have a question. If they don't play zone then their opinion shouldn't be more valued than that of who's actually playing the game, right? i mean they can suggest w/e they want but if they dont play zone why does it matter what they want? It's just stupid. it's basically them making decisions for us but since they're never on zone they dont have to play while getting lamed... and soul stop pretending ur a forum mod. u can say he wurd lame without quotes.

[someonesomewhere]

I don't know if you're talking to Gerami or not, but he does play Zone from time to time. And no part of:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Oh shut the hell up.

Tons of people are lame, but you don't see me asking THEM to be removed? Hell I should ban every person who owns elites with OHNOES "non-pro" weapons while I'm at it.

Is flaming. There is no "Lame" tactic in war, unless you want to include a hostage situation. Proximity mines are a defense; learn to deal with it.

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by MisterMastermind

ya ya double post i know. but i have a question. If they don't play zone then their opinion shouldn't be more valued than that of who's actually playing the game, right? i mean they can suggest w/e they want but if they dont play zone why does it matter what they want? It's just stupid. it's basically them making decisions for us but since they're never on zone they dont have to play while getting lamed... and soul stop pretending ur a forum mod. u can say he wurd lame without quotes.

Crono does play, he is VIP meaning he can only play on weekends.

Originally Posted by MisterMastermind

Tip Of The Day: dont flame people who own you.

"Owning" someone is ridiculous internet junky speech on a forum. In a more dramatic manor it is like you walk up to Crono in real life and start taking his money. He shouts "WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING!" and you are allowed to do that because you "Own" him on Zone. Nonesense talk.

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by MisterMastermind

that boys and girls is called flaming.....

on a not so different note.....
Tip Of The Day: dont flame people who own you.

I dont have to respect those that are better in skill than me. I never respected tao and I problly never will. The world keeps on spinning,

[Raeiphon]

It'd be nice to see a rifle with a g18 refire rate, but for now, i'm in love with the appierces/g18 hybrid (kv9 i think). And yes, strafing is cheap, at any range. But people use it still, and there's nothing anyone can do, unless you remove it entirely. I've also wondered why the bullets move slow, a speed up would be good for zone.

[jkool666]

Originally Posted by Raeiphon

It'd be nice to see a rifle with a g18 refire rate, but for now, i'm in love with the appierces/g18 hybrid (kv9 i think). And yes, strafing is cheap, at any range. But people use it still, and there's nothing anyone can do, unless you remove it entirely. I've also wondered why the bullets move slow, a speed up would be good for zone.

No speed up, strafing only cheap with pistols, and g18 fire rate rifle aka bluerifle.

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by Raeiphon

It'd be nice to see a rifle with a g18 refire rate, but for now, i'm in love with the appierces/g18 hybrid (kv9 i think). And yes, strafing is cheap, at any range. But people use it still, and there's nothing anyone can do, unless you remove it entirely. I've also wondered why the bullets move slow, a speed up would be good for zone.

lol. Speed up weapons....No way.

[Huwajux]

I mentioned in another thread that instead of the bullets speeding up, how about "Every" class is faster. I think it should add more of an adrenaline rush when playing.

[bahamutstevetff]

yes, if bullets all moved faster it would be more of a thrilling game

[Wind_Master]

Originally Posted by Huwajux

I mentioned in another thread that instead of the bullets speeding up, how about "Every" class is faster. I think it should add more of an adrenaline rush when playing.

I think the game is perfect the way it is. When I vs Ace it takes so long to actually hit the guy. Now if the classes were faster he'd be impossible to hit.

[anubis_wing]

I Like It!

[Huwajux]

Originally Posted by anubis_wing

I Like It!

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