Virtual Identification

[Venom_Fish]

Hello, all.
I recently discovered that GraalOnline has been placing markers on different parts of my computer and perhaps many others.
In short, these markers (not sure exactly what they are) are placed on the core portions of your device. From this, your device can be traced and/or tracked as to location and etc.

To be quite frank, I find this inappropriate and am clueless as to the purpose of such a function.
As of yet, the only server that uses it (to my knowledge) is Era.

Again, unlike any other aspect of web identification. I'm told these tracers cannot be "shaken" off by any means unless an internal change to your device.

In totality, I question why is GraalOnline tracking players to such an extent? This obviously a direct invasion to an individual's privacy, seeing as they can be directly tracked by this function.

Furthermore, I've discovered that the GraalOnline staff team do not undergo any kind of "screening" process, so granting them such an ability is absolutely unacceptable.

I, for one, feel violated... can someone in the higher administrative body see to either the containment of this function to screened high officials only or its immediate removal? Thank you.

[Admins]

Graal is not adding any file outside of it's installation folder, especially on iOS where that is not even possible.

[NicoX]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Hello, all.
I recently discovered that GraalOnline has been placing markers on different parts of my computer and perhaps many others.
In short, these markers (not sure exactly what they are) are placed on the core portions of your device. From this, your device can be traced and/or tracked as to location and etc.

To be quite frank, I find this inappropriate and am clueless as to the purpose of such a function.
As of yet, the only server that uses it (to my knowledge) is Era.

Again, unlike any other aspect of web identification. I'm told these tracers cannot be "shaken" off by any means unless an internal change to your device.

In totality, I question why is GraalOnline tracking players to such an extent? This obviously a direct invasion to an individual's privacy, seeing as they can be directly tracked by this function.

Furthermore, I've discovered that the GraalOnline staff team do not undergo any kind of "screening" process, so granting them such an ability is absolutely unacceptable.

I, for one, feel violated... can someone in the higher administrative body see to either the containment of this function to screened high officials only or its immediate removal? Thank you.

Where u discovered that? I would like to know that.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

From this, your device can be traced and/or tracked as to location and etc.

Device location is really not that straight forward. If your computer/device is location-aware then it will provide that functionality through an API. That API will require user permission first. Graal does not even implement any of these API calls.

The only other way really of identifying where you are is by finding the location associated with your IP address, however, this is not at all unique to Graal. It is also not reliable (not all ISPs declare this information) and it is rarely as accurate as you think. MaxMind GeoIP right now thinks that I am in Wales. I am actually in Scotland. In this case it has not even got the country right!

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I, for one, feel violated... can someone in the higher administrative body see to either the containment of this function to screened high officials only or its immediate removal? Thank you.

Graal itself does not place any files outside of the Graal folder. The PC ID used on Graal is determined by the hardware in your computer, but this is a read-only process and this information is also available to other programs on your system.

If you are being tracked by some kind of script on a server, then the "cookie" is probably embedded somewhere inside a GANI file from that server or even scriptfiles/language files, in which case you can just delete the Graal folder. I have long disagreed with using scripted methods to track players, but it seems difficult to prevent and I have argued with scripters before many times about their tracking players using hidden methods. It tends to produce more problems than not, because people in the same household using the same PC are going to be identified as the same person, and people who copy their Graal folders onto different PCs are probably also going to be identified as the same person. Too many false positives in my opinion.

[xAndrewx]

I think he's referring to PC Era, not iOS. I do know iEra has nothing like this.

I recently discovered that GraalOnline has been placing markers on different parts of my computer and perhaps many others.
In short, these markers (not sure exactly what they are) are placed on the core portions of your device.

[papajchris]

On era only admins can use it (I think) so the pr's and such can't. Furthermore there hasn't really been any issues with it. In skylds example we would easily be able to tell if two people are family members because it also shows what PC's have been used in the past. So if two people haven't shared a
PC for years and then does today something is odd. We can also check IP addresses and whatnot. It is a very useful system. Especially when u have the Guy that makes account after accounting hacking. We can just ban his vid.

[Admins]

Well these things are saving files, but not outside the Graal folder. They can be used to possibly detect if the same computer is accessing another account. This is however only used to detect cheaters, it should not be used to detect if someone wants to use a different account and want to be undercover and not reveal his/her identity.

[cbk1994]

When Bell first found out I'd implemented Victory Identification, she told us we could only use it for WSU kiddies who were changing PCIDs and IPs faster than we could ban them (recall that she unbanned you, Wil). I think you'd agree this is a legitimate use for them—I suspect the restrictions on VID usage were simply never communicated to Alfonso when he took over.

The identification features of VID were only ever meant for admins and were only supposed to be used for investigating cheaters, not simple ban evasion; it was, however, misused during my management as well (but never used as the sole proof of a ban).

[Hezzy002]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Hello, all.
I recently discovered that GraalOnline has been placing markers on different parts of my computer and perhaps many others.
In short, these markers (not sure exactly what they are) are placed on the core portions of your device. From this, your device can be traced and/or tracked as to location and etc.

To be quite frank, I find this inappropriate and am clueless as to the purpose of such a function.
As of yet, the only server that uses it (to my knowledge) is Era.

Again, unlike any other aspect of web identification. I'm told these tracers cannot be "shaken" off by any means unless an internal change to your device.

In totality, I question why is GraalOnline tracking players to such an extent? This obviously a direct invasion to an individual's privacy, seeing as they can be directly tracked by this function.

Furthermore, I've discovered that the GraalOnline staff team do not undergo any kind of "screening" process, so granting them such an ability is absolutely unacceptable.

I, for one, feel violated... can someone in the higher administrative body see to either the containment of this function to screened high officials only or its immediate removal? Thank you.

I bet you feel so violated. It's stored in your scriptfiles folder, just delete the Era folder if you don't want it there any more.

[pig132]

Oh no i'm being tracked by 12 year olds....lol....who cares

[snoop413]

something like this happened to me on UN last year. everytime i would post on /b/ the topic would get spammed with "snooping as usual" and sometimes they'd talk about what i said on RC. not like i posted much, or even linked people to the threads i'd post in. it was annoying.

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well these things are saving files, but not outside the Graal folder. They can be used to possibly detect if the same computer is accessing another account. This is however only used to detect cheaters, it should not be used to detect if someone wants to use a different account and want to be undercover and not reveal his/her identity.

@ Chris Vimes / Skyld as well:

The thing is, this method is being used not just on hackers, but on quite possibly every case that comes about on Era. Of-course, I do not have the exact numbers to verify, but from a walk around the block, many people have underwent the use of this system for things as simple as Event Disruption.

In reference to Chris Vimes, I do remember Bell coaching your administration in its appropriate use and since then the topic was left. However, even more than your administration, Alfonso's administration slings this system around like a call-girl.

In totality, if a system or systems like these are being flung around so much, in relation to Skyld, the less of them the better or the less people with them the better. Perhaps some guidelines in the use of any Player-ID scripts outside of the usual PCID or IP. Guidelines outlining the cases in which they may be used and the administrative persons who may possess/use them.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

post

I don't understand - was the tracking noticed after being punished?

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I don't understand - was the tracking noticed after being punished?

Long before (when it was first created), I approached Bell about it who then spoke to the administration at the time (Chris Vimes') about its usage. I was not aware it was still being used until recently, and in cases that did not fit Bell's expressed guidelines; alongside some more deeply disturbing details.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Long before (when it was first created), I approached Bell about it who then spoke to the administration at the time (Chris Vimes') about its usage. I was not aware it was still being used until recently, and in cases that did not fit Bell's expressed guidelines; alongside some more deeply disturbing details.

But that doesn't help me understand - did you receive punishment?

[Venom_Fish]

Reading back,
I don't see how you could not have understood by this point, everything is very vividly explained.

However,
I was not originally banned (punished) using this method if that's your question (confirmed by an anonymous source).
Yet, at a certain point, this method was applied to my (already) ban (again confirmed).
This is how I was able to confirm its continual usage and acquire further details about it.

Does that confirm an understanding?

[jkldogg]

So you got banned and now you're
"snitching" on staff?
Tisk tisk tisk.
Btw, typing like this is utterly retarded, lolololol.

[xXziroXx]

So basically you're complaining about that the staff team on Era managed to verify you avoiding a ban by using another account, or what?

[Stephen]

Sounds like Victory Identification is working just fine to me.

[Venom_Fish]

I haven't evaded a ban, not nominally at least.
I was informed by an staff member of the change in my ban.
To what I asked, and he said something called "VID".

@Stephen: That was bad, try again .

[fowlplay4]

A thread on here isn't going to dismantle a helpful staff tool.