Level Editing HotBar

D4rKv310c1ty · #1 12-12-2006, 04:30 PM

As of recently i've returned to Level Creation/Editing after a year or two, and there was one thing I realised when I came back to it.

Having to continously scroll from a small box squinting to see if the correct tile that I require is there.

Is it possible to add the smallest of features where the level editor can add specific tiles to a small hot bar. Because most indoor rooms stick to a theme with the walls & tiles of the floor, so it'd pointless to flick through loads of outside tiles.

Is this something that could be inforced in the next update?

The speed of development is always a great issue with working on servers!

excaliber7388 · #2 12-12-2006, 04:39 PM

Hotbar=good idea.
Update to level editor=don't hold your breath.

D4rKv310c1ty · #3 12-12-2006, 04:46 PM

I don't understand why Stefan wouldn't want to make future level editing changes.

Mykel · #4 12-12-2006, 05:04 PM

Stefan wouldn't do it because these are mostly matters of convenience. Not to mention, matters of convenience that could possibly be scripted or created by a game-player. Because of the fact that there is only one developer (for the most part?), Stefan mostly focuses on updates that are either needed or major future improvements. I know, it's crappy, but it's just how it is.

Tyhm · #5 12-12-2006, 05:47 PM

Update, maybe not, but feature in the next (scripted) version, perhaps.

excaliber7388 · #6 12-12-2006, 07:50 PM

Still.
Developing is the best thing about Graal to some.
And it's the part that they focus the least on.

D4rKv310c1ty · #7 12-12-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Still.
Developing is the best thing about Graal to some.
And it's the part that they focus the least on.

I think the reason why I started playing Graal was it's development aspect.

It's quite an open source game come to think of it, apart from you can't actually edit the engine itself, just only toy with it maybe along the same lines as Linux.

It's also the only reason why I supported it by paying for subscription, its a cause which I found worth supporting.

I seriously think Graal could make it big one day. Truly do, if my $40+ or whatever, allows me to increase the speed of that process then so be it, I shall pay $40.

And come on! Zelda + Internet capabilities? Nothing beats! Funny that Graal was once called "Zelda Online"

Mykel · #8 12-12-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Still.
Developing is the best thing about Graal to some.
And it's the part that they focus the least on.

Focus the least on? The level editor works. Sure, updates and improvements could be made, but it isn't near the top of the priority list.

Also, remember that time that Stefan re-did the scripting language? Remember that? Remember when he adds new scripting commands in just about every single new update? He made different graphic formats capable in-game.

They focus largely on development.

excaliber7388 · #9 12-12-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mykel

Focus the least on? The level editor works. Sure, updates and improvements could be made, but it isn't near the top of the priority list.

V2 and gs1 workd too. But improvements were nice.

Quote:

Also, remember that time that Stefan re-did the scripting language? Remember that? Remember when he adds new scripting commands in just about every single new update? He made different graphic formats capable in-game.

And remember the way we couldn't test it offline? :o

Quote:

They focus largely on development.

My ass.

D4rKv310c1ty · #10 12-12-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

My ass.

Here's an obvious one, Graal V4? I think they do care about development.

excaliber7388 · #11 12-12-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D4rKv310c1ty

Here's an obvious one, Graal V4? I think they do care about development.

Was V4 an editing tool?
Is there an editor made especially for Mac/Linux?
No.
But there is a client for them, therefore, one can say, they focus on the client more than developers. It's pretty obvious. You're still using the original level editor, the original gani editor, and the original scripting language offline, even though it's out of date.
Out dated is the best way to describe the current dev tools.
And look at all the threads crying out for better ones.

D4rKv310c1ty · #12 12-12-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Was V4 an editing tool?
Is there an editor made especially for Mac/Linux?
No.
But there is a client for them, therefore, one can say, they focus on the client more than developers. It's pretty obvious. You're still using the original level editor, the original gani editor, and the original scripting language offline, even though it's out of date.
Out dated is the best way to describe the current dev tools.
And look at all the threads crying out for better ones.

I think Mykel could have been suggesting development of the game. Not the developing ability.

Tyhm · #13 12-12-2006, 08:56 PM

*shrugs* I've long felt the development was stunted by a lack of focus. Stefan is the only one who can make the Development Tools with the security - with the trust and genuine seal-of-approval - that we need. Sure, we could make a level editor - we could make 10 level editors - but we'd bicker constantly over which one's Official, and belittle them as much as some people belittle those who use MSIE. Stefan can make one Official - either himself, or by reviewing (and verifying the virus-less-ness) of someone else's, each of which takes about as long...then we'd have to wait for said Editor-Maker to update it every time Stefan updates the client...etcetera.
The same could be said for everything - ganishop, RC, etcetera - this whole forum's about things we want Stefan to do, and only Stefan to do.

Not surprisingly, (it seems) he'd rather work on Graal3D. I would too if I was him - make an awesome game, then nobody lets you develop the content or PLAY it, just keep on with these boring administrative tasks. That'd suck - that's how it went with Classic, I moved up the ranks from "Make what you like" to "Make what Graal needs" to "Make sure these guys make what Graal needs" to "Make sure these guys make sure their guys make what Graal needs" to "Make sure Graal gets advertised properly" - when all I ever wanted was to make stuff for Graal, based on what I thought would make it (Classic anyway) a better place. So I can understand someone wanting to spend a little time on the Fun half of development.

Unfortunately, we'd all much rather he worked on our little projects - approve this, make this, add this, confirm this, help us with this, etcetera. Which is why we need to clone Stefan, so they can trade off working on Graal3D and still make all the fun little tools and features we want.

D4rKv310c1ty · #14 12-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyhm

*shrugs* I've long felt the development was stunted by a lack of focus. Stefan is the only one who can make the Development Tools with the security - with the trust and genuine seal-of-approval - that we need. Sure, we could make a level editor - we could make 10 level editors - but we'd bicker constantly over which one's Official, and belittle them as much as some people belittle those who use MSIE. Stefan can make one Official - either himself, or by reviewing (and verifying the virus-less-ness) of someone else's, each of which takes about as long...then we'd have to wait for said Editor-Maker to update it every time Stefan updates the client...etcetera.
The same could be said for everything - ganishop, RC, etcetera - this whole forum's about things we want Stefan to do, and only Stefan to do.

Not surprisingly, (it seems) he'd rather work on Graal3D. I would too if I was him - make an awesome game, then nobody lets you develop the content or PLAY it, just keep on with these boring administrative tasks. That'd suck - that's how it went with Classic, I moved up the ranks from "Make what you like" to "Make what Graal needs" to "Make sure these guys make what Graal needs" to "Make sure these guys make sure their guys make what Graal needs" to "Make sure Graal gets advertised properly" - when all I ever wanted was to make stuff for Graal, based on what I thought would make it (Classic anyway) a better place. So I can understand someone wanting to spend a little time on the Fun half of development.

Unfortunately, we'd all much rather he worked on our little projects - approve this, make this, add this, confirm this, help us with this, etcetera. Which is why we need to clone Stefan, so they can trade off working on Graal3D and still make all the fun little tools and features we want.

Cool. You got the blueprint of this cloning device?

Crono · #15 12-12-2006, 10:13 PM

STOP CRYING ABOUT MAC TOOLS, OBVIOUSLY MAC USERS ARE A MINORITY ON GRAAL LET ALONE THE ENTIRE WORLD.

With that said, level editor could use an update and it would be nice to see the gani editor be more simple to use. It's really complicated in my opinion.

excaliber7388 · #16 12-12-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

STOP CRYING ABOUT MAC TOOLS, OBVIOUSLY MAC USERS ARE A MINORITY ON GRAAL LET ALONE THE ENTIRE WORLD.

With that said, level editor could use an update and it would be nice to see the gani editor be more simple to use. It's really complicated in my opinion.

Developers are a minority as well

Crono · #17 12-12-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Developers are a minority as well

Quality developers are a minority, but it depends on what you define as a developer. Most noobs these days have little ugly rooms on UN and such.

excaliber7388 · #18 12-12-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Quality developers are a minority, but it depends on what you define as a developer. Most noobs these days have little ugly rooms on UN and such.

People who would benefit from n upgrade are a minority.

Except the Mac/Linux users have been waiting longer.
Besides, I've been calling for new tools, Mac or not, for a while.
I would like them to be scripted, so it would work for everyone.

zell12 · #19 12-13-2006, 01:30 AM

lol @ Gerami

Anyway, would it be hard to organize the pics1 so that all or atleast the majority of commonly placed together tiles are grouped more close to eachother? Half them are all over the place...

I'm sure this could be done and keep the same "ID" or whatever of the tiles the same as they were.

excaliber7388 · #20 12-13-2006, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

lol @ Gerami

Anyway, would it be hard to organize the pics1 so that all or atleast the majority of commonly placed together tiles are grouped more close to eachother? Half them are all over the place...

OMG yes.

Tyhm · #21 12-13-2006, 02:45 AM

I suppose an overlay could be possible...just a text file saying position 0 = tile 98, etc.

Scripted tools = Uber. That way, anything there's a Graal for, there will be tools for. PC, Mac, Linux; if a PS3 version's released, that, likewise XBox, Wii, PocketPC/Win Mobile, Graphing Calculator, Deep Future Holophoner, Atari Jaguar, Colecovision, Pong, Microwave, Toaster Oven...

excaliber7388 · #22 12-13-2006, 03:19 AM

Holophone!

Devil · #23 12-13-2006, 06:35 AM

Hey guys, don't dare think you can just come up with a new idea and it magically appears out of Stefans hands.

He's got alot on his plate I'm sure, and doesn't need these little things setting him back. You can still develop so stop crying.

Tyhm · #24 12-13-2006, 07:12 AM

Hey now -
While I generally support the view of Don't hound Stefan, if he hasn't already built the interface for ScriptedEditor, what's wrong with suggesting a form for it? I mean, will it necessarily be more or less work to build it from the ground up in the Old Shape than the New Shape? It'll certainly be more work to Rebuild it later in the New Shape if he builds it in the Old Shape first...

Devil · #25 12-13-2006, 07:46 AM

It's not the requests, it's the way people ask and expect things handed to them in an instant Tyhm.

Luda · #26 12-13-2006, 09:14 AM

I like this hotbar idea

smirt362 · #27 12-13-2006, 09:39 AM

There is something similar all ready built into the editor.

First you click "Select Predefined Objects"

Then you highlight want you want to save and click "Add the Selection to the Objects" and name it. It will be in there for forever. You could also click the "New" button right next to the drop down menu and create your own object list. Afterwards you'll need to hit the disk icon to save it.

I don't really use it that often. I usually create a palette on the level somewhere or in a new level thats tabbed with the level I'm working on. Then whenever I need something I just highlight it and then copy and paste it where I need it.

Get creative!

Demisis_P2P · #28 12-13-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

There is something similar all ready built into the editor.

First you click "Select Predefined Objects"
IMAGE

Then you highlight want you want to save and click "Add the Selection to the Objects" and name it. It will be in there for forever. You could also click the "New" button right next to the drop down menu and create your own object list.
IMAGE

I don't really use it that often. I usually create a palette on the level somewhere or in a new level thats tabbed with the level I'm working on. Then whenever I need something I just highlight it and then copy and paste it where I need it.

Get creative!

Exactly what I was thinking. They can create their own predefined objects aswell so there shouldn't be any issue at all.

Devil · #29 12-13-2006, 10:20 AM

I never actually bothered to check that out, but that goes hand in hand with me not using the level editor for over 2 years.

Mykel · #30 12-13-2006, 11:09 AM

I never knew that. :o

D4rKv310c1ty · #31 12-13-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

There is something similar all ready built into the editor.

First you click "Select Predefined Objects"

Then you highlight want you want to save and click "Add the Selection to the Objects" and name it. It will be in there for forever. You could also click the "New" button right next to the drop down menu and create your own object list.

I don't really use it that often. I usually create a palette on the level somewhere or in a new level thats tabbed with the level I'm working on. Then whenever I need something I just highlight it and then copy and paste it where I need it.

Get creative!

Hm yeah, you're right there.
I still see the bigger convenience in implying a hotbar idea.

Anyway, thanks for the support chaps.

And is it really possible to create your own Level Editor with the programming likes of C++ or even VB (which will save me hell of a lot of time)?

Because i'd just do that, I wouldn't have to distribute it, just keep it to myself.

Crono · #32 12-13-2006, 04:31 PM

Smirt, I tried that years ago but it would never save. Guess I'll try it again, could save some sexy pre-defined cliffing so I wouldn't have to perfect everything all the time by hand.

excaliber7388 · #33 12-13-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

I never actually bothered to check that out, but that goes hand in hand with me not using the level editor for over 2 years.

It's okay, you can jump right back in, it hasn't changed.

Quote:

Hey guys, don't dare think you can just come up with a new idea and it magically appears out of Stefans hands.

He's got alot on his plate I'm sure, and doesn't need these little things setting him back. You can still develop so stop crying.

Another reason for more developers, and a larger focus on attracting new money to Graal.

smirt362 · #34 12-13-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Smirt, I tried that years ago but it would never save. Guess I'll try it again, could save some sexy pre-defined cliffing so I wouldn't have to perfect everything all the time by hand.

I think you have to hit that save icon to save it.

Maniaman · #35 12-13-2006, 10:25 PM

I might add a fancy "hotbar" thingy to my level editor eventually.

Although I need to actually make it work decently first.

D4rKv310c1ty · #36 12-13-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

It's okay, you can jump right back in, it hasn't changed.

Another reason for more developers, and a larger focus on attracting new money to Graal.

Erm somehow, I don't think upgrading development tools would attract people to the game. That attraction that it's quite open based and available to edit is still there.

excaliber7388 · #37 12-14-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D4rKv310c1ty

Erm somehow, I don't think upgrading development tools would attract people to the game. That attraction that it's quite open based and available to edit is still there.

More developers working on Graal, not dev tools.
Although easier to use dev tools would attract new players.